Engagement With Motorcyclists

[Akzle]

People misunderstand what vision zero is actually about. They get caught up in the motivation (no one should die on the roads) and think that is unachievable so ignore the whole thing. What it is actually about is what you talk about in the following point. It is an acknowledgement that people aren't going to be perfect automatons on the road, so what can you do to lessen the chance that someone dies when things go wrong. In places it is reducing speeds (think 30 km/h on the tiny dead end streets where you would have kids playing) in places it is reshaping roads (ditching ditches and dealing with water run-off as people do overseas. In others it is moving the lights/pylons back or underground (as you suggested). Yeah some of the changes are probably gonna be shit (I can see the speed limit going down for some rural roads, although were you really following them anyway?) but the motivation is understandable and hopefully some of the changes will be good for us as well (wire barriers, armco that goes all the way to the bottom of the barrier)

while i disagree th what you say, i will defend your right say it.

but i think all you fucken do-gooders should myofb. mind your life, not anyone elses.

fuckups should at the very least hurt, if not be fatal.

[HEsch]

while i disagree th what you say, i will defend your right say it.

but i think all you fucken do-gooders should myofb. mind your life, not anyone elses.

fuckups should at the very least hurt, if not be fatal.

NZTA's idea that "no one should die due to a mistake" is a valid one. I agree that people need to 'feel' mistakes though, in order to learn from them. Equally, there are people out there who don't give a f about what or how they do things (but, I wouldn't class those actions as mistakes - only the people).

The solutions need a fucktonne more money thrown at them though - the quality of roads, surface, repairs, drainage, etc, is just not sufficient.

[Akzle]

NZTA's idea that "no one should die due to a mistake" is a valid one. I agree that people need to 'feel' mistakes though, in order to learn from them. Equally, there are people out there who don't give a f about what or how they do things (but, I wouldn't class those actions as mistakes - only the people).

The solutions need a fucktonne more money thrown at them though - the quality of roads, surface, repairs, drainage, etc, is just not sufficient.

money money, baaawwww bawwww.

we all know what the roads and driver's are like. it's not something we have control of on a personal level. act accordingly.

[Banditbandit]

So what is "truly" riding a bike? No even the riding school die hards on here say about their riding school experience teaching them to truly ride a bike.

Nitpicking pedant ...

PS you're a fuckwit

[Voltaire]

The "Automobile" Arseholes pretend to represent ALL road users, yet do no such thing.
They are more than willing to throw motorcyclists under the wheels as a sacrifice to further their own agendas. Be very wary of anything they propose...

Seemed OK when they transported my bike from Timaru to Auckland and put me up in a motel for the night.

Also get a discount on my WOF and items I buy at Countdown, not to mention free maps.

[F5 Dave]

Is that something to do with fuel injection?

[eldog]

Seemed OK when they transported my bike from Timaru to Auckland and put me up in a motel for the night.

Also get a discount on my WOF and items I buy at Countdown, not to mention free maps.

+1 but need AA Plus.

maybe not their attitude to motorcycles

[Ulsterkiwi]

I think part of the problem is not that money isn't being spent on the roads but there is no real accountability for HOW the money is spent on the roads. Councils and the NZTA in particular seems to be toothless when it comes to any kind of audit or quality control process that keeps the contractors honest.
I will cite examples local to me because I witnessed first hand the impact.

Kapiti expressway. Gazillions of dollars. Excellent road, really makes a difference to transit times. Opened in February last year. Within 8 months I think it was (maybe less) it needed resurfaced, WTAF?????

Local roads in Kapiti, bitumen and chip "repair" done to a series of major local roads. Done before a cold snap, bitumen doesn't grip chip, they now have gravel roads with lashings and lashings of bitumen over peoples cars, garage floors etc etc, ie not on the road. In the wheel tracks which form you can see the original road surface. Ever heard of a weather forecast?

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. Keep feeding the monkeys, they keep coming back, monkeys are not stupid. Stop feeding the monkeys.

There is another idea Rastus, what are the motorcyclists interested in? Find out about their agenda first, say for example road construction which pays little or no attention to their safety, then you might be able to have a conversation about your agenda, say, how they can control their end and push for change from others. (Probably not ranting about it on the interwebs)

[nerrrd]

I think part of the problem is not that money isn't being spent on the roads but there is no real accountability for HOW the money is spent on the roads. Councils and the NZTA in particular seems to be toothless when it comes to any kind of audit or quality control process that keeps the contractors honest.

This times infinity. Seems like this whole ‘contracting’ malarkey has just become a way of all the involved parties absolving themselves from any responsibility for the result. God forbid anyone should want to do a good job just for the sake of doing a good job. Latest ‘road fixing’ example I encounter on a regular basis is sticky stuff poured on what always seemed like perfectly good asphalt covered in pea gravel, sweep it a couple of times and then paint the road marking on top of the (still) loose stones. Mind boggling.

As far as engaging motorcyclists go, I’ll do stuff for money. The ride forever courses make me feel like I’m getting something back from the ACC levy, actual discounts would be even more appealing. Throw in some interesting motorcycling ‘celebrities’ (Martin, Boorman, some Superbike, TT, MotoGP or Dakar riders or locally even a Morgan, Goff, Crosby etc) as the gentleman above mentioned for publicity and I’d be engaged. But I like to link I already am safety-wise so maybe not your target market.

[jellywrestler]

Seemed OK when they transported my bike from Timaru to Auckland and put me up in a motel for the night.

Also get a discount on my WOF and items I buy at Countdown, not to mention free maps.

that's one of their products that you purchased.

the AA don't actively support motorcyclists themselves and their rights etc, they're a bunch of twats

[eldog]

that's one of their products that you purchased.

the AA don't actively support motorcyclists themselves and their rights etc, they're a bunch of twats

Its a good product and if you need to use it....

Agree the AA don't support other forms of transport, as they are biased


but a bunch of twats would be useful, just like the term fuckwit. What is it with the English language....

[eldog]

This times infinity. Seems like this whole ‘contracting’ malarkey has just become a way of all the involved parties absolving themselves from any responsibility for the result. God forbid anyone should want to do a good job just for the sake of doing a good job. Latest ‘road fixing’ example I encounter on a regular basis is sticky stuff poured on what always seemed like perfectly good asphalt covered in pea gravel, sweep it a couple of times and then paint the road marking on top of the (still) loose stones. Mind boggling.

As far as engaging motorcyclists go, I’ll do stuff for money. The ride forever courses make me feel like I’m getting something back from the ACC levy, actual discounts would be even more appealing. Throw in some interesting motorcycling ‘celebrities’ (Martin, Boorman, some Superbike, TT, MotoGP or Dakar riders or locally even a Morgan, Goff, Crosby etc) as the gentleman above mentioned for publicity and I’d be engaged. But I like to link I already am safety-wise so maybe not your target market.

true lots of shoddy workmanship on our roads - trying to save a buck-usually costs long term.
Cheap arse work which lasts the minimum amount of time before it needs to get replace during the next period of the contract(the next contractors problem)
It should be that there is a group check inspect and check whats being done during the job and after, with multiple site visits and a guaranteed performance (time and condition)

What that generally means is that contractors will hike the price up probably to the true value of the job and they will miss out. Then the cheapest will win contract and quite often these contractors will suddenly disappear later
Maybe a performance bond is required.

however there is a lot of time wastage with what I think is unnecessary movement of material*and H&S.

* - there has been an earthquake, a land slip part of into the sea, whats wrong with dumping more into the sea that lies across the road, its natural isn't it?

Last Sunday I rode over an area, that was 'looked after' by one of the big roading contracting companies, who used to leave large amounts of loose chip all over the road (chipseal)

I noticed a marked improvement in the quality and amount of 'proper' repairs done.
I also noticed a change from just chipsealing the whole lane to just a metre of so of the tyre tracks (2 lots of repairs in one lane) between the tyre tracks nothing and the joint heights where pretty even
So a change has happened.

The other earlier repairs are now starting to fall apart.


BTW

You already have my attention about this as I am reading and replying to this thread.

[nerrrd]

true lots of shoddy workmanship on our roads - trying to save a buck-usually costs long term.
Cheap arse work which lasts the minimum amount of time before it needs to get replace during the next period of the contract(the next contractors problem)
It should be that there is a group check inspect and check whats being done during the job and after, with multiple site visits and a guaranteed performance (time and condition)

What that generally means is that contractors will hike the price up probably to the true value of the job and they will miss out. Then the cheapest will win contract and quite often these contractors will suddenly disappear later
Maybe a performance bond is required.

I ain't no expert...but maybe if they KNEW they couldn't get away with doing a shitty job (proper inspections? contracts suspended/revoked at the first sign of shittiness?) then they'd ALL be forced to make a realistic bid at the outset. The opposite seems to be the case at the moment (i.e. they know they can get away with it for long enough to make it worth their while).

But from what you say it sounds as though some are bucking the trend which is good to hear.

[AllanB]

Good luck with this broke government doing F-all to road quality.

You know you would think the electric small motorcycle would be a huge thing about now - ride to work, plug in, ride home, avoid the car jams etc.

[rastuscat]

So, our roads are rubbish.

We can wait maybe a generation or two, they will likely improve. Lots of us will suffer in that couple of generations, but hey, its great to have someone else to blame.

Another option is for us to ride as if the roads are rubbish.

Don't follow so close, scan properly further ahead, and maybe lets not travel at Nurburgring speeds. In summary, lets ride like the roads are rubbish.

Nah. It won't catch on.