Greedy bastards!

[Viking01]

I may be a bit slow, I just don't get the rush to electric cars. As numbers increase the country will have to produce additional electricity to charge the cars. There's sod all rivers left to dam so what's the plan? And there does need to be a plan. Wind farms everywhere? Solar panels on all houses? Nuclear power? The additional electricity has to come from somewhere.

Then there's the batteries which I understand are made of very ecologically unfriendly materials, and China doesn't want everybody else's rubbish any more. So where're all those dead batteries going?

On second thoughts I shouldn't worry, it'll be your problem not mine.

Offered in part answer as to why interest in EV's is increasing:

https://www.juancole.com/2018/03/ele...dinosaurs.html

For overseas countries with large populations, a reduction in pollution plus a
reduction in fossil fuels (climate change and geo-strategic issues) certainly
are primary drivers. Think Asia (China).

As to provision of power, look at increased deployment of wind and solar
power to meet energy needs. Coupled with deployment of a country-wide
charging network for EV's.

Countries like Denmark have already been busy since 2010 with deployment
of a country-wide charging network for EV's , coupled with subsidies to
drive adoption of EV's. Plus it is one of the highest generators of electricity
via wind turbines in Europe. So it can be achieved.

Solar panels on houses (just based on my own research and getting cost
estimates for a solar panel retro-fit) are still "not attractive enough" (in
terms of financial payback time and cost savings). And figures are worse
when you factor in the cost of battery storage. But this situation is sure
to improve in the not-too-distant future.

Maybe if our Government saw it as a desirable outcome (e.g. solar retrofit
subsidies / increased credits for supply of excess power back to the grid),
then perhaps multiple goals could be achieved (e.g. reduced need for power
generation and reticulation infrastructure; warmer and drier houses; reduced
dependence on fossil fuels).

[HenryDorsetCase]

I may be a bit slow, I just don't get the rush to electric cars. As numbers increase the country will have to produce additional electricity to charge the cars. There's sod all rivers left to dam so what's the plan? And there does need to be a plan. Wind farms everywhere? Solar panels on all houses? Nuclear power? The additional electricity has to come from somewhere.

Then there's the batteries which I understand are made of very ecologically unfriendly materials, and China doesn't want everybody else's rubbish any more. So where're all those dead batteries going?

On second thoughts I shouldn't worry, it'll be your problem not mine.

The solution in the medium term is simple: stop corporate welfare by cutting the subsidy to Tiwai Point. That releases about 10% of the national generation capacity.
'
the lithium in paarticular in a lithium ion battery is quite toxic. The issue is: is it more or less bad than the the CO2 and CO and other noxious things produced by combustion engines.... as another poster pointed out, NZ is very fortunate that 90% of its electric energy needs can be met with renewable (hydro mainly) so we dont have the shifting of burning fossil fuels from lots of cars to one large power plant issue. But the rest of the world do need to deal with aht.

a fascinating statistic i read somewhere is that China has bet big on solar. Like thousands of MW/h big. whcih you can do in a command economy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yes, I'm well aware of [some of] the troubles that Tesla (an early entrant to the
EV market) is currently experiencing. And that they have had both general build
quality issues, as well as battery related issues. It will be interesting to see if
Tesla avoids bankruptcy.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...reckoning-near


. "One swallow does not make a summer", so I'm told.
.

she's is a spitter, not a swallower, I heard.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Did you do any research on the cost of a new battery? Thats another issue and if you don't have to replace your battery during your term of ownership whoever buys it next will take that into account with any offer they make. Unless you are just using your car for commuting waiting in line at remote charge stations will be an issue you will have to contend with too. Good Luck.

with the tech where its at now, EV's in a passenger car context make the most sense as a commuter car. As I said earlier in my case probably 95% of my driving and 80% of my mileage could easily be handled by an electric car.

and with petrol at 2.17.9 a litre it makes mre sense every day.

Also : 32 Ford Highboy Roadster.

[Voltaire]

The disposal of those batteries will be a nightmare... It will be very hard to see anyone making a living doing that, much like used tyres right now..

About 30 years ago I needed a new set of tyres for my BMW R75/5 in Vienna, cost about the equivalent of 3 pounds per tyre recycling fee, but as they say there " it meant nothing to me....."



Fast forward to now and...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/loca...-for-old-tyres

[Graystone]

also EV batteries are way more dangerous than an inert combustion engine. you can't just poke a screw driver around and hope for the best or bzzzzzzat say goodbye to your arm

But you can use a lighter to look into dark gloomy depths without exploding.

Horses for courses really, but I've certainly seen more one armed people smile than I have exploded people...

[Viking01]

Did you do any research on the cost of a new battery? Thats another issue and if you don't have to replace your battery during your term of ownership whoever buys it next will take that into account with any offer they make. Unless you are just using your car for commuting waiting in line at remote charge stations will be an issue you will have to contend with too. Good Luck.

Sometimes I despair a little ..... maybe we can answer a few questions in one hit !

1. Suitability

I would not be considering an EV (replacing our existing car within say two years)
if I had not already looked at their ability to meet our likely driving needs. e.g.
frequency of use ; distance typically travelled per run.

And I wouldn't still be considering an EV without having done a spreadsheet or two
to capture likely costs or charges (e.g. purchase cost; power charge; maintenance;
depreciation).

Do I expect it to be a few years before charging stations become widely distributed
across our main highways ? And for there to be a few places that might be "out of
our reach" (on a single charge) ? ==> Yes.

Do I expect battery technology to improve in the near future, allowing a much longer
distance to be travelled between charges ? ==> Yes

Do I expect EV battery charging times to shorten appreciably in the near future ? Due
both to EV batteries and roadside charging technology itself ? ==> Yes

2. Batteries

I gave the Nissan Leaf as an example. So, before you go and do another web search
and then tell me about battery issues that Nissan Leafs might be experiencing, don't
bother.

https://www.noted.co.nz/money/techno...ing-too-early/
https://electrek.co/2018/03/26/nissa...ement-program/

So, Yes, I have done some research into the possible need for a new battery, as
well as having gathered some indicative NZ prices (for that EV make and model).

But even if I did have to replace a battery, the likely lower capital cost of buying
an EV in the first place will still probably make it attractive. Especially if you import
it yourself.

The two people I mentioned driving them bought low mileage models ex Japan for
just over NZ$4,500 landed. And while one has just on-sold his car, he replaced
it with a newer model that had more bells and whistles. He lost approx $200 on
the sale of his old Leaf.

3. Possible Loss of value on Sale

Good luck with trying to develop some rule to calculate how much the value of the
vehicle should be reduced, solely because of the age of the battery. And arguing
that with the seller.

[sidecar bob]

Did you do any research on the cost of a new battery? Thats another issue and if you don't have to replace your battery during your term of ownership whoever buys it next will take that into account with any offer they make. Unless you are just using your car for commuting waiting in line at remote charge stations will be an issue you will have to contend with too. Good Luck.

Did you do any research into the cost of replacing an engine or auto transmission in a new combustion engine car?

[Woodman]

Did you do any research into the cost of replacing an engine or auto transmission in a new combustion engine car?

Did he do any research in the frequency and margins on parts and labour in regularly servicing a normal IC engine? I doubt it, he is a moron after all. EV is a game changer for the vehicle service industry and will be an interesting ride for the next 10-15 years or so.

[F5 Dave]

And when your grandchildren see a pic of grandad on a motorbike, they ask ...."what were those used for ?"

And grandad, glass in hand, mumbles past his false teeth...."for having fun and picking up chicks...."

And gets slapped down by his daughter for telling lies to the kids.....

But they were lies. The having fun, yeah sure. But never had any fairer sex attention as a result.

[caseye]

Did he do any research in the frequency and margins on parts and labour in regularly servicing a normal IC engine? I doubt it, he is a moron after all. EV is a game changer for the vehicle service industry and will be an interesting ride for the next 10-15 years or so.

He!. She is a fuckwit. Lecky vehicles are coming like it or not, thing is, there are far too many Greedy Barstards selling them here right now.
A year or 2 and it'll sort itself out.

[Voltaire]

Did you do any research into the cost of replacing an engine or auto transmission in a new combustion engine car?

I read a US article that said when the 16K electric power train meets the price of the 6K petrol one game on (over).

[george formby]

I read a US article that said when the 16K electric power train meets the price of the 6K petrol one game on (over).

Yup. The combustion engine bench mark looks very vulnerable. Amazing times ahead.

[MD]

Back to the greedy bastards. Caltex, BP and Z are all 219.9c for 91 in Kapiti (07/05/18). Funny how they price independently but all reach the exact fraction of a cent? Almost worth the 40 minute drive to Levin for 191.9c (well that's what I paid there 2 weeks ago).

[rastuscat]

While its not possible for everyone I just buy on the 10c off a litre days which one station will have one each week. I take along a 20L container to fill the bike from at the same time.

Sage advice.