Calling all conspiracy theorists - do you believe in this one?

[TheDemonLord]

Sounds like you want to pick this up again, you bowed out last time so here's a refresher of the last post...

Shall we continue on in the correct place?

You were the one to make reference to it, I responded.

As I said - I bowed out because you were misinterpreting the very information you yourself posted, in order to fit your view - and I gave you 2 instances. At that point, I couldn't be bothered, if you refuse to understand the sources that you cite (when it's been pointed out) - there can be no further discussion.

[Woodman]

And what if it eventually transpires that stratospheric aerosol injection causes more problems than it solves?

What if the chemtrails were for the greater good and are a deliberate attempt to solve the biggest global issue there is?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN1AA28K

[TheDemonLord]

Do you want to pick it up or not? I understood what I cited, hence my willingness to continue the discussion, you got proven wrong, then failed to have the intellect to admit it and learn, hence your unwillingness to continue the discussion. Thus my subsequent labeling you as a fool who jumps to conclusions and delusions, so is not one worth taking the time to have an off-topic discussion with at all.

Thanks for playing, now do us a favor and fuck off.

I made my intentions clear. So much for your 'understanding'...

When you can understand why we have a FRBS in NZ, I'll consider taking you up on the offer, till then, Myself and Don Brash will have something to agree on.

And you'll have to try harder than that - my Kiwibiker fanclub have been trying for years to get me to Fuck off, hasn't worked yet.

[Graystone]

I made my intentions clear.

That you have

[Laava]

What if the chemtrails were for the greater good and are a deliberate attempt to solve the biggest global issue there is?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN1AA28K

Eew, no wonder the rain taste salty on the west coast!

[Laava]

You've really not looked into the subject of geo-engineering at all, have you?

They were fresh out of tin hats when I was at uni...

[sugilite:Me]

So you could you tell it was the same plane? Also how can you tell that plane/s were not changing direction after takeoff or simply going into holding patterns over a airport.

I could not tell for sure if it was the same plane, but it was within the same 15 minute time frame each morning I saw it. I did not live anywhere near an airport. It left it's trail from one horizon to dam near the other until coming around in a big circle and disappearing into the horizon from whence it came. As mentioned in another post I had a splendid view of a very large stretch of coastline, so the distances involved were very significant.

[sugilite:Me]

And that, is my issue - there are some known variables that easily and readily explains that situation, before resorting to the more exotic.

Are you saying that "Some known variables" excludes other possibilities? This seems to go against your scientific methodologies.

First part - sure - not going to argue in principle, but what resources are you referring to? Take the link that Katman posted for example - $10 Billion, reduce Global Warming - if we take the theoretical and assume it to be ready - that sounds like a bargain to me. Is the stated goal of a reduction in Global Warming a resource, possibly could be argued. Is it nefarious? Depends.

Ahh, this is not my first KB rodeo lol I'm not going to supply a shopping list of resources for you to pick apart with things I cannot possibly quantify, refute or rebuke without putting in considerable time I simply do not have in order to satisfy some dude on the internet. Whayt I will say is resources become more or less valuable as circumstances dictate such as technology, weather and or other conditions - so lets just go with a blanket "All Resources". Conquering armies tend to take all.

I'll concede the principle of your point - that advances in Tech usually involve advances in Weaponary - but I think you're overstepping the mark slightly - the history of 'super-weapons' isn't as cataclysmic as you make it out to be (with a few notable exceptions).

Nice work sport, you turn my line of "time and time again, new and previously unknown technology has been used to annihilate people that are holding resources others want" into a altogether more sensationalist and sexy "history of 'super-weapons' isn't as cataclysmic as you make it out to be". Even minor steps in tech have resulted in 100's and 1000's of deaths. Go and explain to a theoretical sole surviving mother of a wiped out by firearms North American Indian village that she is overstating the deaths all around her by using the term "annihilation"? People that minimize and marginalize human suffering disappoint me.

Do Big companies sometimes act innapropriately - Sure.
Do Lobby governments have an undue influence on political parties - Also, sure.
Do we have examples of when something untoward has happened - Absolutely.

So you may be thinking I agree with you and in part, I do. But that's half the story. Let's take this statement: "Would never do anything as dastardly as fuck over everybody in the worst possible way except themselves" - This cuts to the heart of the matter - without everybody else, such an action is pointless.

I've got all the money and no-one to lord it over (pun intended) - it rather defeats the purpose. In nearly every expose of corporate misdeeds - it's always been a limited number of people that have been fucked over (not justifying it, but want to make the point) - Fucking everyone over is unproductive and unprofitable, whereas sometimes fucking a percentage of people over HAS been productive and profitable in the short-term

which leads to my second point here - we know that companies are occasionally rather Naughty because invariably they get Exposed - the link I posted earlier about the relationship between time, number of people and the probability of something being kept secret is extremely relevant here - Nothing stays secret. When things are uncovered, if they meet the required burdens of proof - then from there a series of events is set in motion.

Sure I agree with everything you are saying in principle, don't kill all your customers. I'm thinking a bit bigger than that. What I'm seeing is the World cannot possibly sustain the fast growing population at the current rate and wasteful resource hungry way of life. Do you seriously think the people at the top of the totem pole are not looking for some kind of total solution to this problem? And that solution can only mean a serious reduction of life on the planet - do you think such people will send memos out of their plans, or will they stay out of site out of mind while anybody that might stumble onto their plans will be instantly discredited all over the internet as a conspiracy theorist? Talk about a perfect cover to work from.

Sure, but then you're left with a predicament - Either you throw all of it, because you can't trust it even though most will be accurate, or you have to retract such a blanket statement and assess each bit of research on it's own merits.

Sure, it is all any of us can do living in a world where transparency is just a dream or a notion. No disagreement from me there. You simply have no choice but to do your research and hope you get it right.

Come now - you complimented me on being a Black Belt on putting words in people's mouths, and then you try the above? Tsk Tsk.

No - I don't have that faith. What I do have faith in, is self-interest - Powerful people and organizations want to stay in that position. In order to do so, fucking everyone over can work, but it is ALWAYS a short-term strategy.

A more robust longer-term strategy is not to fuck everyone over, lest those people in turn, fuck you over (as has been the case on numerous occasions), I've outlined about that above. Consider a game - you could win by killing the enemy Team, the problem is - you'd not be able to play the game again. Not being able to play again means that you loose.

I assumed you had that faith because I have only ever seen you discredit peoples theories with great zest and gusto. And, like I said, I'm thinking beyond Corporate greed and thinking what will these powerful people focus be on with dwindling resources and over population.

I think you are stretching quite a bit in certain areas. Evil people are the same place they have always been. In terms of being Powerful - I'm assuming you're alluding to the Corporate Psychopath - with that statement - the thing is, they don't do as well as you'd think: "destroy shareholder value, tending to have poor future returns on equity." - this reinforces the theme of my main point - it's not a viable long term solution - and that mechanism is what tends to deal with and depose such people rather nicely.

As mentioned above, Long term solution will be focused on reducing over population by any method deemed effective, rather than adding another zero to their bank accounts. These peoples self interest will be moving from wealth to self preservation for them and their kind.

[sugilite:Me]

Never met anyone from Arkansas before... do you have a banjo and a hankering for prescription opiates?

I'm just here for a few months. supporting my partner as she sorts her mothers late estate out, so would not choose to live exactly here as such as it is a baron rural area.
Banjo is on order, though none sighted as yet, maybe will end up being the only one in the street that actually has one.
Did listen to one conversation between two farmers at the local walmart - took me 20 seconds before registering yes they were speaking english - of a sort. And a full minute to understand a single sentence, well I think I did.
Opiate users, hell yes seen plenty of them - walking gaunt skeletal people.
Cliche moments, waiting at another Walmart in Springfield, Missouri for my partner to arrive after parking the car - I could of sworn I'd walked into a live freak show. People wearing see through clothing that really should not be, others that looked like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Others looked like they had just come down from the hills to grab a woman to procreate with (My partner says there really are parts around here like that). By the time my good looking partner walked in, I swear things went into slow motion, a fan started up pushing wind through her long hair and a radiant golden glow surrounded her lol

[R650R]

MH370 they trotting our another new lie to support the fairy tale.....

It was bad enough that it supposedly was unseen by military radars in high tension area off its flight path....
Now they saying he zig zagged the border flying towards a major city and that didn’t trigger alarm bells!!!!!!

[Katman]

A bit of background info on geo-engineering - for those who still think it only exists in the minds of conspiracy theorists.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/09/03/...short-history/

[husaberg]

I could not tell for sure if it was the same plane, but it was within the same 15 minute time frame each morning I saw it. I did not live anywhere near an airport. It left it's trail from one horizon to dam near the other until coming around in a big circle and disappearing into the horizon from whence it came. As mentioned in another post I had a splendid view of a very large stretch of coastline, so the distances involved were very significant.

okay how big a circle did this aircraft take to turn? because you would require a rather splendid view indeed to see a plane traveling at 40000 ft and 700km/h perform a 180 degree turn
Also where was the nearest airport or Airbase.

[sugilite:Me]

okay how big a circle did this aircraft take to turn? because you would require a rather slendid view indeed to see a plane traveling at 40000 ft and 700km/h perform a 180 degree turn
Also where was the nearest airport or Airbase.

Did you miss the part where I told you it had a large contrail behind it - helps one see exactly where that plane has gone? Seriously, I've stated that exact thing in like three posts now. You are either inattentive or are trolling me.
You know, I did not get up there to measure the turning radius.
How do you know it was at an altitude of 40,000 ft and it was traveling at 700 kmh?
I'm "guessing" the nearest airport is Westport, no idea if that plane could land there or not.

[husaberg]

Did you miss the part where I told you it had a large contrail behind it - helps one see exactly where that plane has gone? Seriously, I've stated that exact thing in like three posts now. You are either inattentive or are trolling me.
You know, I did not get up there to measure the turning radius.
How do you know it was at an altitude of 40,000 ft and it was traveling at 700 kmh?
I'm "guessing" the nearest airport is Westport, no idea if that plane could land there or not.

I am not trolling you i are trying to sort out what you can actually substaniate you have seen, from what you believe you may have seen.
Conspiracy theorists tend to link information together to suit their beliefs.
You need to explain exactly where it is you seen these occurences. Date, location, year.
I assumed you were talking about the West Coast of America from your location. there are Westports in numerious locations arround the world.
I asked you the turning radius because you said you seen it turn arround.
You dont need to measure the turning radius but be aware it would be more than your view of the sky if it was a high flying comercial jet.
I only ask this as you claim to have been able to see the contrails of the plane undertaking this maneouvre.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you saying that "Some known variables" excludes other possibilities? This seems to go against your scientific methodologies.

More of Occams razor: If someone comes home late at night staggering and smelling of Alcohol - what's the likely explanation:

Alien Abduction.
They went on a Bender.

Is a vast international conspiracy, that has operated with complete secrecy for far longer than any similar sized conspiracies have been able to operate for a possibility? It's a possibility in the Mathematical sense, but when compared to other much more likely explanations....

Ahh, this is not my first KB rodeo lol I'm not going to supply a shopping list of resources for you to pick apart with things I cannot possibly quantify, refute or rebuke without putting in considerable time I simply do not have in order to satisfy some dude on the internet. Whayt I will say is resources become more or less valuable as circumstances dictate such as technology, weather and or other conditions - so lets just go with a blanket "All Resources". Conquering armies tend to take all.

Okay fair enough - I think your below comments give enough clarity to what you mean. I wasn't sure which resource per se you would gain from some form of aerial spraying practice.

Nice work sport, you turn my line of "time and time again, new and previously unknown technology has been used to annihilate people that are holding resources others want" into a altogether more sensationalist and sexy "history of 'super-weapons' isn't as cataclysmic as you make it out to be". Even minor steps in tech have resulted in 100's and 1000's of deaths. Go and explain to a theoretical sole surviving mother of a wiped out by firearms North American Indian village that she is overstating the deaths all around her by using the term "annihilation"? People that minimize and marginalize human suffering disappoint me.

The issue I have here is, that North American Village you refer to - Prior to the introduction of Firearms, did they never engage in Tribal Warfare? Considering most Native American tribes have various rules around combat, including a system equivalent to Medals (from memory - one gets to wear certain totems for various acts in battle - such as ferocity or being able to touch an enemy combatant without harming them) - Do you think that if that sole survivng Mother - that her tribe had gotten the weapons first, they wouldn't have done the exact same thing?

This is not to marginalize the suffering, but to take a realistic view of History - Tribal conflict is something that all Humans do and have done, hell, even Chimpanzees do it - at least for the most part in the west, we've managed to civilize it down to friendly contest on the sporting field, rather than the Murder, rape and pillage of old.

In regards to the use of the word annihilation - at the level of the Tribe - sure, Annihilation is the right word - when talking about Humanity as a whole (which is more along the lines of this discussion) then no, Annihilation isn't the right word.

But back to my original point - consider the case of Gate Pa - The British Army with all the latest and greatest weaponary from Europe AND a numerical advantage got beaten back by Rawiri Puhirake and his tribe Ngāi Te Rangi. Unknown technology/Superior Technology can be and is effective - my point was that Cunning and Strategy has had more consistent and successful results.

Sure I agree with everything you are saying in principle, don't kill all your customers. I'm thinking a bit bigger than that. What I'm seeing is the World cannot possibly sustain the fast growing population at the current rate and wasteful resource hungry way of life. Do you seriously think the people at the top of the totem pole are not looking for some kind of total solution to this problem? And that solution can only mean a serious reduction of life on the planet - do you think such people will send memos out of their plans, or will they stay out of site out of mind while anybody that might stumble onto their plans will be instantly discredited all over the internet as a conspiracy theorist? Talk about a perfect cover to work from.

I disagree on your premise - the trend seems to be, as people get educated, as medicine advances and as Women get both legal rights and reproductive rights, the birth rates tend to plateau out. Most western countries are starting to achieve an Equilibrium (with the average being around 2.2 children - which means we are replacing what we loose) - the 3rd world is making progress here - but that is where the majority of births are happening.

Second part - The issue is that people have been making conspiracys since way back when, the Majority tend to be based on wild conjecture, distrust of authority and a number of personality traits. I agree it does provide the perfect cover - and there have been a few instances were things widely dismissed as conspiracy were later vindicated as true - but these tend to be a fraction of what is trotted out as Conspiracy.

I assumed you had that faith because I have only ever seen you discredit peoples theories with great zest and gusto.

I like to argue and it beats doing actual work at work.

As mentioned above, Long term solution will be focused on reducing over population by any method deemed effective, rather than adding another zero to their bank accounts. These peoples self interest will be moving from wealth to self preservation for them and their kind.

Maybe. It's a possibility, but any such solution runs a very large risk of back-firing on those people. to Quote Tyrion Lannister - I don't trust them, I trust their self-interest.