Where are we going?Originally Posted by ellipsis
Forum whore
Where are we going?
I mentioned vegetables once, but I think I got away with it...........
Moped rider
It is only responsible to interpret the data in ways to fit multiple narratives (it's called being open minded). Your company clearly has a pre-existing problem (which you are obviously part of), if having a shit-fight with upper management has not only become an option, but a preferable one. This isn't the 80s or 90s when it was acceptable to have combative work environments, we've learnt productivity in any sort of skilled or creative job requires respect and trust.
Lighten up, it was a jab at your prolific use of inferencing to create strawmen arguments; too subtle I guess.
Crazy fuckers have always been part of society, the internet allows them to clump together and 'validate' their craziness. Misogynistic upbringing/exposure, low success with women (see previous point for reasons why), very low portion of sanity, and online echo chambers. What more do you think is required for such absolute resentment?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyGOYA-U_uc
Anarchic Wild Child
This was a while ago - sorry - I missed it.
Not quite - the Communists have always implemented a dictatorship.
I cannot think of a single example of a revolution that has occurred as Marx predicted. The intellectuals have always attempted to bring in communism - not realising that they will always fail in the way they attempt it - and then they have to enforce their ideas on the people - at gunpoint - a dictatorship.
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Sorry - I missed your last response - how rude of me:
Except there are multiple data points that you are not privy to, that I am - which I cannot expand upon here which invalidate those other narratives.
As I said, you are free to handwaive things to maintain what you wish to be true, but to assert that it is a responsible interpretation of data, based solely on your preconceived notions is what we call Bias.
Oh no you don't - I've been at my current company for not that long - all of the problems to which I speak of predate my arrival (some by several years), you're simply making shit up to fit the reality you wish to project onto me.
But to talk quickly about the preferable option - you are putting the cart before the horse my friend. The preferable option would be that I had time, resources and authority to complete all the outstanding tasks that I have the skills, experience and drive to fix.
There are issues at this company that have not been dealt with because of certain personalities in upper management. These issues (with the passage of time) have grown more and more pressing (as OSes go from LTS to Zero support). With a good number of them, I've looked at them, come up with solutions, presented those solutions and then proceeded with them. When you are moving a service from a server that is 18 years old and running a server version that is 7 major releases behind the current OS version - you are going to have issues.
Now, in the presentation to Management I'd accounted for this and set the expectation we are going to get some issues and some of those will generate complaints. It is an inevitability with the scale of the work that we are doing. However, after a couple of high-profile complaints and to give you an idea of scale - on one particular project - of the ~6000 sites and services that we needed to move, we had about 10-20 complaints that resulted in a credit, and of those 5 were escalated up to senior management.
Based on those 5 - certain managers wanted to stop the project "Too much risk", "Problem with the process" - when we had about ~600 sites and services left to migrate.
This is the key part that you need to understand: There is a causal link here - the reason that the problems had grown to the point where heavy-handed migration was required, was because of an unhealthy aversion to risk. Systems had been left in half-migrated states because of Risk aversion, this risk aversion in turn makes the problem worse and worse over time.
This is where, once all other options have been exhausted, the Insufferable Cunt comes in to play - I'm happy to have the shit-fight required to tell those certain management types in no uncertain terms to piss off and let us finish the work as intended.
Now, as I'm sure most of KB is aware of now - I happen to be rather good at tenaciously arguing a point, much more-so than any of my predecessors. And that is why I was the only one who actually completed the work and those that came before more weren't able to. Because I'm an insufferable Cunt (when required).
For the final piece of the puzzle (to try and give you a clear understanding) because of the greater principle I was working towards, I've made our T1 teams job much easier - they are no longer trying to support services across 5 different versions of OS, the services have been deployed using automated scripts so that each server within the platform is identically (and correctly) setup.
We've been able to deploy additional features for our customer base that we weren't able to do so before (due to problems with one or 2 of the older servers within the previous environment).
That is the outcome that is preferable. The goal is, and always will be, providing the most reliable, feature-rich, price competitive product to the Customer, in a manner that our support teams can provide the best possible support, with the shortest delay to resolution.
And sometimes, the only way to achieve THAT goal, is to be an insufferable cunt. Some of the time.
It's interesting to look at the number of companies that were reported to have a combative element in the work place - a good number of them were also very successful.
Bull.
Shit.
You got caught.
You got called.
There's a flaw in your logic, whilst I concede the internet makes it easier to clump together, there are multiple groups of 'crazy fuckers' who clumped together well before the advent of the internet. So I don't entirely buy that.
Are you saying that society is more Misogynistic than say 50 years ago? or 100 years ago? Cause that's what you need to claim in order for that statement to be true. Compared to every other society that has ever existed (so not a hypothetical utopia) we are the least Misogynistic society that has ever been. So I don't buy that.
I think (and I'll preface this with I'm far from certain) - that those grounds aren't enough for resentment. disheartening, sure. But not resentment.
I'm going to go on a tangent for a second - but assume you are a Prisoner in a camp and you have a guard who is determined to torment you. They force you to build a wall. Even though the conditions may be appalling, they may be abusive etc. you can still take a degree of pride in seeing the finished product, the fruits of your labour.
And so, truly malevolent guards who want to torture prisoners in every aspect would force the prisoners to work, but it wouldn't be work in aid of a goal (such as carrying heavy bags from one end of the courtyard, then back again etc. till they collapsed) - denying them the satisfaction of job well done.
Back to the Incels - I believe the above phenomana may explain the resentment. Assume you are a young man - you are told that to get a Companion (because I suspect that underneath the sexual desire, there is a deep desire for companionship) you've got to follow the rules of the dating game: Dress nicely, work out etc. etc. and there is a social contract of sorts that by successfully completing these requirements, you will become a desirable companion.
Assume for the moment that you devote a good proportion of your time and effort to play by the rules of this game, only to be continually rebuffed and rebuked - this is where I think the true resentment comes, because you've upheld your end of the implied social contract but society hasn't upheld their end.
I also think that a shift in what is being touted a desirable in Men has a lot to answer for. There's been a move away from traditionally 'Manly Men' (think the 80's action movie classics), to something more 'tame' and dare I say it more 'effeminate' - there's been some serious scientific research on this http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...03122412472340 and from the abstract:
debate about the consequences of shifts to more egalitarian relationships, and media interest in the debate has crystallized around claims that men who participate in housework get more sex.I think in those 2 statements is the resentment - young men are being told to play by a set of rules that don't work.Results show that both husbands and wives in couples with more traditional housework arrangements report higher sexual frequency, suggesting the importance of gender display rather than marital exchange for sex between heterosexual married partners.
But to re-clarify, I'm not certain on this - it does seem to me that this cultural shift in the last 10-15 years does somewhat line up with the formative years of the people who are now calling themselves incels and it is a change that we haven't seen before and so may explain a phenomena that we haven't seen before.
Hmm, a quasi-political show, with a focus on entertainment as opposed to hard facts and data - what an excellent source for information.
However - the comments section is some rather interesting reading - a large number of people are echoing my original statement - treating them with derision won't solve the issue.
There's some other comments that talk about if we discuss this as a purely mental health issue, there's a blatant double standard - we wouldn't be laughing and deriding this group if it was made of Women. We'd be taking the issue seriously. I happen to think that this phenomena is part of the problem.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
Or maybe they're just insufferable cunts.
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Maybe - but again, Insufferable Cunts have existed long before the rise of Incels.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
Maybe they're just New Age insufferable cunts then.
The Majestic Metal Wizard
So what changed?
Every other group of insufferable cunts throughout history hasn't produced something akin to the Incels.
Something within our western society has changed to produce this reaction.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
Society is becoming over-run by whiny little fucks.
It's not just this place.
Anarchic Wild Child
Yeah - they developed a sense of entitlement - "I can't get laid - Oh Oh Oh - I'm entitled .. I will set up an under-privileged position .. "
Well fuck me ... actually no - I don't want to fuck them either ..
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
The Majestic Metal Wizard
And why do you think that is?
FWIW - I think you are partly correct, but I also think you are describing the symptom, not the cause, I think it's deeper than that.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Same question to you Bandit - why do you think they developed said sense of entitlement?
I think Entitlement has something to do with it, but I think it's a very shallow explanation of the behaviour. As I've said - I think that there is something much more fundamentally wrong here.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
It's all part of the Zionist plans.
The Majestic Metal Wizard
And how do you get from Whiny fucks to Zionist plans?
Personally, I don't think Zionism has got anything remotely to do with it, but as I above - I think you are partly right on the whiny part, I'm interested in where you go from there.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
Everything comes back to Zionist plans.
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