Free speech.

[Katman]

Well there were a group of six or seven people and the guy in the hooped shirt certainly looked to be carrying an AK47... aaaand the guy who pokes his head around the corner and points a big telephoto lens down the street... mistaken for an RPG... shit happens.

Let's not forget, the Yanks should never have been there in the first place.

It was a war built from lies.

(Lies and a Zionist agenda).

[husaberg]

Well there were a group of six or seven people and the guy in the hooped shirt certainly looked to be carrying an AK47... aaaand the guy who pokes his head around the corner and points a big telephoto lens down the street... mistaken for an RPG... shit happens.

Having kids in a van in no way precludes some other shit going down.

I guess that makes me unsympathetic.

Lets not also forget that the incident was reported about and investigated at the time.
the only thing wikileaks added was the release of the video of the peiople getting killed which i am sure the families would rather not have had broadcast.

[FJRider]

... In relation to Chelsea Manning - I don't entirely agree with what she did (I also don't entirely disagree either) - I've got no interest in what she has to say myself, but I do believe that what she has to say is in the public interest and that she should be allowed into the country to Speak.

I do not agree either. I also have no interest in anything she has to say. And I believe no special favors should be granted to her to come to this country ... the bed she lies in was of her own making.

[Katman]

Lets not also forget that the incident was reported about and investigated at the time.

The incident happened in 2007 and came to the public's attention in 2010 thanks to Manning.

Is three years later your idea of 'at the time'?

[FJRider]

Just on the principle that open mindedness is the way to learning the truth.

BULLSHIT ... The definition of open minded ... is a willingness to try new things or to hear and consider new ideas. An example of an open minded person is one who listens to their opponent in a debate to see if the information makes sense or if their opponent can change their mind.

Truth is a very long way from new ideas. New ideas don't make it the truth ... nor does believing something make it the truth.

[husaberg]

The incident happened in 2007 and came to the public's attention in 2010 thanks to Manning.

Is three years later your idea of 'at the time'?

You are as always, illiformed and are an idiot. Unless the public dont read the newspapers the next day in 2007.
ike the New York Times and the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/media/or...hetworeutersst
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/w...st/13iraq.html

BAGHDAD, July 12 — Clashes in a southeastern neighborhood here between the American military and Shiite militias on Thursday left at least 16 people dead, including two Reuters journalists who had driven to the area to cover the turbulence, according to an official at the Interior Ministry.

The two Reuters staff members, both of them Iraqis, were killed when troops on an American helicopter shot into the area where the two had just gotten out of their car, said witnesses who spoke to an Agence France-Presse photographer who arrived at the scene shortly after their bodies were taken away.

Reuters is waiting for official comment on the reports that the men were killed by a US helicopter; if confirmed, these will be the third and fourth deaths of Reuters' journalists by "friendly" fire. Cameraman Waleed Khaled was shot by US troops in West Baghdad in 2005, and another cameraman, Mazen Dana, was shot by troops in 2003 outside Abu Ghraib.

Oh here is the 2007 investigations as well
https://web.archive.org/web/20131020...estigation.pdf
It wasnt the first case as it wont be the last case of freindly fire deaths
http://www.thebaron.info/people/memo...ook/mazen-dana

[Katman]

Unless the public dont read the newspapers the next day in 2007.
ike the New York Times and the Guardian

Fair enough. Let's go back to the video then.

The video that the authorities tried to hide for three years.

I'm sure you'll say it was to spare the feelings of the families of the journalists but frankly, I don't think the American authorities give a fuck about the families of two Iraqi journalists.

They wanted it hidden for their own purposes.

[husaberg]

Fair enough. Let's go back to the video then.

The video that the authorities tried to hide for three years.

I'm sure you'll say it was to spare the feelings of the families of the journalists but frankly, I don't think the American authorities give a fuck about the families of two Iraqi journalists.

They wanted it hidden for their own purposes.

Yet It wasnt hidden it wasn't even classified according to Bradley,,, so thats another Fail on your behalf.
Reuters were actually shown a portion of the video on July 25th 2007.

Plus I have already said the publication of the video is likely not what the families wanted so its hardly a big stretch to say "you are sure i will say that" uri gellar

the only thing wikileaks added was the release of the video of the people getting killed which i am sure the families would rather not have had broadcast.

If you had bothered to read the US investigation that was conducted straight after the incident you would have noticed that one of the outcomes was it was suggested that combat reporters make their presence known to the US military and that they wear colored vests to identify them.

But lets get something straight about the incident
WikiLeaks appears to have done selective editing that tells only half the story. For instance, the Web site takes special care to slow down the video and identify the two photographers and the cameras they are carrying. ... The Web site does not slow down the video to show that at least one man in that group was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, a clearly visible weapon that runs nearly two-thirds the length of his body. WikiLeaks also does not point out that at least one man was carrying an AK-47 assault rifle. He is seen swinging the weapon below his waist while standing next to the man holding the RPG

They also didnt show how the helicopters were fired upon with rifles and rpgs prior by people in similar clothing in the same vicinity mere minutes before, which is why the combat reporters went there in the first place.

WikiLeaks also released a version that didn't call attention to an Iraqi who was toting a rocket-propelled grenade and packaged the manipulated version under the tendentious rubric Collateral Murder." The New York Times reported that "Critics contend that the shorter video was misleading because it did not make clear that the attacks took place amid clashes in the neighborhood and that one of the men was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade

Captain Jack Hanzlik, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command stated that the airstrike video "gives you a limited perspective, [it] only tells you a portion of the activity that was happening that day. Just from watching that video, people cannot understand the complex battles that occurred. You are seeing only a very narrow picture of the events." Hanzlik said images gathered during a military investigation of the incident show multiple weapons around the dead bodies in the courtyard, including at least three RPGs. "Our forces were engaged in combat all that day with individuals that fit the description of the men in that video. Their age, their weapons, and the fact that they were within the distance of the forces that had been engaged made it apparent these guys were potentially a threat."Also, WikiLeaks "does not point out that at least one man was carrying an AK-47 assault rifle. He is seen swinging the weapon below his waist while standing next to the man holding the RPG". The Wikileaks edited video did not add arrows pointing to these men, nor did they label them, as was done with the men carrying cameras. WikiLeaks did, in fact, state "some of the men appear to have been armed [although] the behavior of nearly everyone was relaxed" in the introductory text of the shorter video.] In an interview with Fox News Assange acknowledged that "it's likely some of the individuals seen in the video were carrying weapons". He explained, "based upon visual evidence I suspect there probably were AKs and an RPG, but I'm not sure that means anything. ...

According to Harnden "Assange admitted that he was seeking to manipulate and create 'maximum political impact'."Dan Kennedy wrote in The Guardian, "Even the comedian Stephen Colbert, in an interview with Assange, dropped his rightwing-blowhard persona momentarily to make a serious point, calling the edited version 'emotional manipulation"

[Graystone]

Yet, you've advocated for the silencing of Speech that you consider 'wrong'.

And those examples are far from contrived, as a brief overview of history will attest.

I've advocated nothing of the sort.

History has a lot of things, the point remains, your need to show examples based on your value judgements about what is valid or invalid free speech show you don't really understand the concept.

[Graystone]

BULLSHIT ... The definition of open minded ... is a willingness to try new things or to hear and consider new ideas. An example of an open minded person is one who listens to their opponent in a debate to see if the information makes sense or if their opponent can change their mind.

Truth is a very long way from new ideas. New ideas don't make it the truth ... nor does believing something make it the truth.

Depends on your version of the truth I guess

[Katman]

Yet It wasnt hidden it wasn't even classified according to Bradley,,, so thats another Fail on your behalf.
Reuters were actually shown a portion of the video on July 25th 2007.

That's right, and when they asked to see the full footage of the incident they were told they would have to lodge a request through the FOI process - which they did.

The request was denied.

The authorities wanted the footage to remain hidden.

[husaberg]

That's right, and when they asked to see the full footage of the incident they were told they would have to lodge a request through the FOI process - which they did.

The request was denied.

The authorities wanted the footage to remain hidden.

Yet they had showed the video to Reuters days after the incident and had claimed responsibility for the incident. They also investigated the incident this is all stuff you claimed never occurred.
this is hardly the activities of someone who tried to cover up an incident.
You further claimed the incident was never reported yet it clearly was with the military at the time claiming full responsibility
Note the military gave all the documents relating to the event to Reuters under the FOiA request.
The video was not given out for distribution to a news agency for reasons that are obvious to anyone other than you apparently.
If the Military wanted the footage to remain hidden it would have been destroyed, yet it never was.

Lets see thus far during the Iraq conflict
At least 117 journalists killed during the war were Iraqi, constituting about 85 percent of the overall toll. Iraqis constituted all but one of the 54 media support workers who were killed.
insurgent forces of one kind or another were responsible for the deaths of 110 journalists and 47 media workers. The actions of U.S. forces, including checkpoint shootings and airstrikes, were responsible for the deaths of 16 journalists and six media workers. Iraq military forces led by Saddam Hussein were responsible for the deaths of three journalists. Post-invasion Iraqi forces were responsible for the deaths of two journalists. Responsibility is unknown in the rest of the cases.
Journalists dying in war zones is not exactly new.

Fatalities in Iraq far surpass any other documented war-time death toll for the press. CPJ, founded in 1981, recorded the deaths of 58 journalists during the Algerian civil war from 1993 through 1996, another 54 fatalities in the undeclared civil conflict in Colombia, which began in 1986; and 36 deaths in the conflict in the Balkans from 1991 to 1995.
Freedom Forum, a nonpartisan foundation dedicated to free press, has compiled lists of journalists killed in conflicts prior to 1981. The organization lists 89 journalists killed in the Central American conflicts from 1979 to 1989; a total of 98 killed in the Argentine conflict from 1976-1983; another 68 killed in World War II; and 66 killed in Vietnam from 1955 to 1975.
More recently, CPJ has documented the deaths of 35 journalists covering the Syrian civil war, a toll that includes a reporter who died across the border in Lebanon, and a journalist injured in Syria who later died in Turkey. The war in Afghanistan has taken the lives of 21 journalists from its beginning in 2001 until today.
In Syria, and to a lesser extent Afghanistan, combat-related crossfire has accounted for a large proportion of deaths. But in Iraq, at least 92 journalists, or nearly two out of every three killed, did not die in airstrikes, checkpoint shootings, suicide bombings, sniper fire, or the detonation of improvised explosive devices. They were instead murdered in targeted assassinations in direct reprisal for their reporting. Many were targeted because of their affiliations with U.S. or Western news organizations, or their connections to news outlets seen as having sectarian connections.https://cpj.org/blog/2013/03/iraq-wa...e-death-to.php

I also noticed you havent commented on Wikileaks editing of the video and missing out confirming that two people were armed one with a AK47 and one with a RPG.
Why would they slow down portions of the video. plus edit out the bits prior.
If Wikileaks is about releasing the "truth" why is it they need to edit the video and miss out quite important bits like that?

[Katman]

The video was not given out for distribution to a news agency for reasons that are obvious to anyone other than you apparently.

And like I've already pointed out, I don't accept your suggestion that the American authorities didn't release the full footage because they didn't wish to upset the families of two dead Iraqi journalists.

They tried to keep it hidden simply because didn't want to risk public opinion turning any further against their illegal little war.

[pritch]

The definition of open minded ... is a willingness to try new things or to hear and consider new ideas.

There's not a Hell of a lot of that to be found on the Interwebs.

[husaberg]

And like I've already pointed out, I don't accept your suggestion that the American authorities didn't release the full footage because they didn't wish to upset the families of two dead Iraqi journalists.

They tried to keep it hidden simply because didn't want to risk public opinion turning any further against their illegal little war.

I note you again fail to answer questions about Wikileaks editing the video and the people that were armed with a RPG and a AK47?
If wikileaks were aout releasing the truth why do they need to edit the video then.....?