Why are so many race bikes non compliant with the numbers rule?

[malcy25]

all of these models have the room to put legal size numbers on them, remember that they are running catchtray belly pans, they may not be able to have rulebook perfect background panels but I do think the Rideby Clause takes care of that, and common sense.
I'll put my hand up to say that it's pretty hard on a number of models to get every detail of the rule on all bikes, but is that any reason to ditch every thing into the 'it's too hard basket'? or the logic of a twelve year old?

Agree - thus my rhetorical question hypothesising that it may be time to change the panel size (but continue to pursue readability requirements)

[husaberg]

can you eleborate please?, if transponders are the be all and end all then why do they even bother with numbers at all?

Well I thought you were looking at it from the angle of commentating?
My thought are the numbers were originally there to reconise the individual bikes for lap scoring.

we don't need triple digits in this country, there's not enough bikes in any single class to require them, either or, there's no shortage of real estate to put numbers on this bike

MNZ doesn't asign numbers by class, last time i looked anyway it was by rider, pretty sure there is more than 100 riders in NZ not to mention day licences getting a number below 100 for the street racing was always hard.

[Grumph]

Well I thought you were lloking at it from the angle of commentating?
My thought are the numbers were originally there to reconise the individual bikes for lap scoring.

Why then do racehorses carry numbers on the seat cloths ? Answer - it's a spectator sport...

Riders must realise that they're in an entertainment based sport. Around which, the spectators requirements should be given weight.
If, for instance, Choppa wants to enlarge his fan base, his bike should be immediately recognisable. Now from what I remember, it looks just like any other GSXR1000 - so his riding number becomes the identifier....

Husa, I found it ironic that you quoted the brake pedal stop rule.....I wrote it, LOL.

[eldog]

Why then do racehorses carry numbers on the seat cloths ? Answer - it's a spectator sport...

Riders must realise that they're in an entertainment based sport. Around which, the spectators requirements should be given weight.
If, for instance, Choppa wants to enlarge his fan base, his bike should be immediately recognisable. Now from what I remember, it looks just like any other GSXR1000 - so his riding number becomes the identifier.....

how true, I went to the Paeroa races this year, I could tell who was who, but after a few heats, I could recognize several different bikes and riding styles etc.
it certainly would have helped if I could have figured out any 'persons of interest.

But it didn't matter, I still had a good time and a great position to see.

I can see how difficult it is for people to identify individuals with the fleeting glimpses as they pass.

[jellywrestler]

Well I thought you were looking at it from the angle of commentating?
My thought are the numbers were originally there to reconise the individual bikes for lap scoring.


MNZ doesn't asign numbers by class, last time i looked anyway it was by rider, pretty sure there is more than 100 riders in NZ not to mention day licences getting a number below 100 for the street racing was always hard.

MNZ only assigns numbers per class, no class has 99 or more riders.
https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-s...r.pdf?sfvrsn=2

from a commentators point of view the numbers are of use, but in most cases on the track not really, usually the track fence is in the way and the start finish spot where the commentators are is just too fast, elsewhere on the track binoculars are too cumbersome to use as they take a while to get to where you want to be and this effects fluency so numbers on the move are a minor part of my game. For me when the bikes are on the dummy grid my brain locks in whose who, if i have to fuck around with grid sheets and double check colours it's shit, if the numbers are clear, its' better, it's a time thing.
Grumph hit the nail on the head, it's a spectator sport, people need to feel value anywhere they go, not being able to recognise whose out there must have an impact on that especially when the commentator is trying to tell you something.
if you think the numbers are not relevant, try a day without commentary and see how much fun that is.
three weeks ago i flaggied at manfieild, a bike was throwing shit out, the management needed to be aware of it, it had a plain white number board on the side i was watching, took three fucking laps for me to sort it, next time that sort of shit could simply kill or maim someone.

[gonzo_akl]

Why then do racehorses carry numbers on the seat cloths ? Answer - it's a spectator sport...

Riders must realise that they're in an entertainment based sport. Around which, the spectators requirements should be given weight.
If, for instance, Choppa wants to enlarge his fan base, his bike should be immediately recognisable. Now from what I remember, it looks just like any other GSXR1000 - so his riding number becomes the identifier....

Couldn't agree more, I'm not actively involved in the motorcycle racing scene having never done it but I do like to attend the race meets such as the NZSBK meetings in Auckland, but it is really difficult to follow what is going on for anyone but the high profile riders. A combination of very average sound system and the bikes looking similar, decent numbers on the bikes would be a huge step forward.

but i'm getting older and my eyesight ain't what it used to be.

[jellywrestler]

If, for instance, Choppa wants to enlarge his fan base, his bike should be immediately recognisable. Now from what I remember, it looks just like any other GSXR1000 - so his riding number becomes the identifier....

Choppas one of the harder ones, while his colours are usually distinctive he swaps helmets and leathers often and it takes time for me to pick up on that.

[husaberg]

Why then do racehorses carry numbers on the seat cloths ? Answer - it's a spectator sport...

Riders must realise that they're in an entertainment based sport. Around which, the spectators requirements should be given weight.
If, for instance, Choppa wants to enlarge his fan base, his bike should be immediately recognisable. Now from what I remember, it looks just like any other GSXR1000 - so his riding number becomes the identifier....

Husa, I found it ironic that you quoted the brake pedal stop rule.....I wrote it, LOL.

Horse dont get a choice in racing or attire and its about the betting,which is why its a spectator sport, in Racing motorbike riders pay for the privilege of racing not for any worthwhile money in most instances. horse racing is also not moving with any technology they don't even use AB as it all about protecting a few studs.
Tell choppa to paint it pink. or rainbow stripes if he wants to be reconised. it would make more sense than a number.
Nothing wrong with the rule positive stop rule, it makes sense, but its often missed, but saying a drum braked bike needs two strings in my mind does not.

MNZ only assigns numbers per class, no class has 99 or more riders.
https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-s...r.pdf?sfvrsn=2

from a commentators point of view the numbers are of use, but in most cases on the track not really, usually the track fence is in the way and the start finish spot where the commentators are is just too fast, elsewhere on the track binoculars are too cumbersome to use as they take a while to get to where you want to be and this effects fluency so numbers on the move are a minor part of my game. For me when the bikes are on the dummy grid my brain locks in whose who, if i have to fuck around with grid sheets and double check colours it's shit, if the numbers are clear, its' better, it's a time thing.
Grumph hit the nail on the head, it's a spectator sport, people need to feel value anywhere they go, not being able to recognise whose out there must have an impact on that especially when the commentator is trying to tell you something.
if you think the numbers are not relevant, try a day without commentary and see how much fun that is.
three weeks ago i flaggied at manfieild, a bike was throwing shit out, the management needed to be aware of it, it had a plain white number board on the side i was watching, took three fucking laps for me to sort it, next time that sort of shit could simply kill or maim someone.

Shit that a woeful number isn't it. sign of the times. But it used to be by rider.
I dont think there was even a co-entered name in more than one class their on that list either.
Greymouth still gets close to a hundred entries though only one number per rider afaik.
No need to worry about the commentating there seeing the numbers as they only see two small parts of the track at any one time.
I have been to plenty of meetings without commentary i survived i dont go for the commentary.
No offense to you intended.
The way i see it people would stil race without specators by if there was no racing there would be no racing spectators.
there are exceptions of course the street circuits would not run without spectators.
But go to a club meet there is few spectators that are not friends or family its the same for karts. or most MX club meets.
Motorcycling is not a big sport esp when you consider how much the poms payed for a goal keeper the other day, over 100 million?

[Grumph]

To the best of my knowledge, all the NZ circuits have at least two hire rates. Generally, if you're charging admission, it's a higher rate - sometimes double.
Club days are not promoted to attract spectators hence don't charge at the gate so as to get a lower cost of hire...

But the promoted meetings start with a higher base cost. So you must attract and entertain spectators. I personally didn't like what was done at the Hampton Downs round of the Nationals last season - but I can see why it was done....
Entertaining spectators with racing starts with a good - preferably free - programme. Then follows the ability to identify the riders being talked about by (hopefully) a good commentator.

If identifiable numbers become a thing of the past at national level, I hope spectators like it. Otherwise crowds will drop even further - reducing the club's ability to afford to run those rounds....

[jellywrestler]

Shit that a woeful number isn't it. ealry days yet, it costs a tenner to register so that'll explain somesign of the times. But it used to be by rider.there's a few, this is predominately for nationals, and early on, road racers are notorius for being late at things...
I dont think there was even a co-entered name in more than one class their on that list either.
Greymouth still gets close to a hundred entries though only one number per rider afaik.
No need to worry about the commentating there seeing the numbers as they only see two small parts of the track at any one time.
I have been to plenty of meetings without commentary i survived i dont go for the commentary.me too, but we trying to encourage people to the sport aren't we?
No offense to you intended.takes a lot more than that to offend me!
The way i see it people would stil race without specators by if there was no racing there would be no racing spectators.i watched the national toyota series at taupo on telly, the spectator numbers were at best a third than the NZSBK, we are poised on numbers of bums on seats in comparison to the once high and mighty car series to actually sit up and be noticed by coca cola and simllar, why not tidy ourselves up and see what evolves?
there are exceptions of course the street circuits would not run without spectators.
But go to a club meet there is few spectators that are not friends or family its the same for karts. or most MX club meets.
Motorcycling is not a big sport esp when you consider how much the poms payed for a goal keeper the other day, over 100 million?jeez, she must have had big tits for that sort of money.

interesting take on it all, at the end of the day it's up to the individuals to actually have a bit of respect for their sport in my opinion. I handed out a riders profile sheet a the first round of the nationals for many years, just a bit of homework to help the commentary team with stuff along the way. Last year I didn't, you know by the end of the first weekend of the NZSBK just one hand written bit of info was passed over to Neil Ritchie (also commentator, new zealands best according to MNZ publicity)
Now there's got to be about five hundred people in the bits either riding, spannering, owning, co-ordinating, mothering, fathering or someway involved in a sport that requires so much to get to the track in terms of dollars and tenacity, yet apart from one, nobody thought that the primary method of them getting their name/sponsors/whatever out to the world needed to know anything.
Apathy is the word, on numbers, and the above it seems

[eldog]

To the best of my knowledge, all the NZ circuits have at least two hire rates. Generally, if you're charging admission, it's a higher rate - sometimes double.
Club days are not promoted to attract spectators hence don't charge at the gate so as to get a lower cost of hire...

But the promoted meetings start with a higher base cost. So you must attract and entertain spectators. I personally didn't like what was done at the Hampton Downs round of the Nationals last season - but I can see why it was done....
Entertaining spectators with racing starts with a good - preferably free - programme. Then follows the ability to identify the riders being talked about by (hopefully) a good commentator.

If identifiable numbers become a thing of the past at national level, I hope spectators like it. Otherwise crowds will drop even further - reducing the club's ability to afford to run those rounds....

I have been to a club event, actually enjoyed it better than the promoted event at the same location I had attended previously.
I wouldn't have minded paying for entry. But once it was explained (like Grumph above) then I understood.

But it is much more helpful to become part of an event, if you know or can recognise someone.

At the paid event I had too move away from speakers (and some of the crowd) too loud.

Can see the point of track officials too.

I suppose there will come a day that each bike/rider would have a tracker fixed to bike and spectators can see position on map on a phone etc.
With selection of individual rider and/or current race leaders with stats etc.

Apathy tends to be a New Zealand thing? Somehow related to tall poppy syndrome?

[malcy25]

interesting take on it all, at the end of the day it's up to the individuals to actually have a bit of respect for their sport in my opinion. I handed out a riders profile sheet a the first round of the nationals for many years, just a bit of homework to help the commentary team with stuff along the way. Last year I didn't, you know by the end of the first weekend of the NZSBK just one hand written bit of info was passed over to Neil Ritchie (also commentator, new zealands best according to MNZ publicity)
No there's got to be about five hundred people in the bits either riding, spannering, owning, co-ordinating, mothering, fathering or someway involved in a sport that requires so much to get to the track in terms of dollars and tenacity, yet apart from one, nobody thought that the primary method of them getting their name/sponsors/whatever out to the world needed to know anything.
Apathy is the word, on numbers, and the above it seems

Interesting, I provided an info sheet to MNZ before the season start, which was used to populate a apage on the NZSBK website, as did many other riders.
http://www.nzsbk.co.nz/riders/
I assumed this as a given this information would have been passed to the commentary team.

Thanks for the prompt Spyda. I shall Never rely on that information to be passed on and will try and direct it to you and your colleagues directly

[jellywrestler]

Interesting, I provided an info sheet to MNZ before the season start, which was used to populate a apage on the NZSBK website, as did many other riders.
http://www.nzsbk.co.nz/riders/
I assumed this as a given this information would have been passed to the commentary team.

Thanks for the prompt Spyda. I shall Never rely on that information to be passed on and will try and direct it to you and your colleagues directly

that rings a bell, and that explains a bit, new team at MNZ, right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing., there's room for a little bit more there so if they talk to me about it i'll throw my two cents worth in
thanks for that Alistair.

[Michael Moore]

No.

It sounds like someone in the club management is taking money saving too far. I have to periodically cull the rule book accumulation (two each year) to keep them from being a fire hazard. If you give every rider a rule book each season (instead of leaving them to find one online, and there are still a few people with limited net access) then you know they've gotten one, and there's no good excuse for not being conversant with the contents.

If you want to play, you need to know and follow the rules.

[jellywrestler]

It sounds like someone in the club management is taking money saving too far. I have to periodically cull the rule book accumulation (two each year) to keep them from being a fire hazard. If you give every rider a rule book each season (instead of leaving them to find one online, and there are still a few people with limited net access) then you know they've gotten one, and there's no good excuse for not being conversant with the contents.

If you want to play, you need to know and follow the rules.

like all rule books 90% doesn't cover you, so the on line option is much easier to hone into where you want to be, especially with control find option,
i wonder how many teams, on the way to meetings, actually pull out an ipad and play i spy with the rules? pretty good option there to run over things but I would doubt it pretty well ever happens....
i'd be interested to find out what a printed copy is worth.