Hardcore Biker
Depends on the type of fmj. Open tip match is better out of the types. But!Originally Posted by TheDemonLord
If doc are saying that it's humane treatment of animals then an expanding projectile is needed. Too easy to use the wrong type of bullet and too easy to gut shot from a helicopter.
True. But we're concerned about animals. Humans you're at war with it doesn't matter how long it takes til they kick it as long as they eventually do.
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Anorak
Slow learner aye.
The aussies aren't to happy about something with potential to wipe out all the marsupials either.
Must be another Katman conspiracy you have uncovered, that everyone else who actually knows anything about pest control or 1080 has known about for 20 odd years.
Gene tech could sort it out with a bit more research.
Of course, the same dickheads who are against 1080 are also against its most obvious alternative
(that should be good for another ten pages...)
Then we have the false accounts of deaths you never owned up to posting.
Their own words
Owners of a dry stock property near Te Kuiti, Paula and Mark Stone, said they were approached by MPI to agree to the 1080 drop on their property - although MPI said it was DOC who approached the farmers - which they did after an official visited them for a meeting.
The couple confirmed that DOC had contacted them two weeks prior to the drop to tell them to move cattle which they did.
The farmers whose cows might have been killed by 1080 says it's possible the animals escaped into the area where the poison was dropped.
Mrs Stone said the cattle had been let into the bush area in the past where the drop occurred.
"By the bush area there's a track and there's open paddocks in that area and so we do allow them in there, but all winter that gate was secured."
While she said it was not certain the animals had escaped into the operation area, it was a possibility and when DOC visited their property to inspect the dead cattle, they walked the boundary of the paddock and found the fence that had been secured had been damaged.
"But it is likely that they've gone into that area, yes it is very likely."
she confirmed no baits had been found in the actual paddock where the cattle died.
DOC Operations Director David Speirs said staff had been to the site and all the evidence pointed to the animals escaping on to pasture in the drop zone.
"The gate in question was secured to a post by a piece of wire around its middle, and it's rotated around that piece of wire. The gate wasn't well secured at all."
No bait was found in the paddock where the cows were found dead, he said.
A 500kg animal would have to eat 22 or 23 baits to get a toxic dose, but it wasn't impossible a cow would eat that much. The drop rate is 300 baits per hectare.
GPS-based data showing where the helicopter flew and the follow-up on the ground confirmed the baits were dropped where they were supposed to go.
Third parties make use of these kind of incidents to fuel opposition to 1080, he said.
"The tragedy of this is ... it distracts from the real message, which is that we're trying to save New Zealand's biodiversity.
"We will lose the battle if we don't use tools like 1080.
Then we have one of you openings posts
I asked you for these viable option you never came up with a single one
So this is just another look at me i am katman and i will post stuff about subjects i know nothing about thread
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Kiwibiker
As mentioned in another post, While I lived in Waitahora literally in the middle of A Toatara forest, possums were initially prolific to say the least. The the Tararua council started putting these pellets down. They explained to me that only pesty critters that had the jaw strength could get through the outer layer and bite into the cyanide, then pow. So birds were unaffected. The Possum population dropped to the point where I stopped hearing or seeing them at all. Much to the disappointment of my staffie lol
I cannot remember the name of it, and a brief search looking up google found the link below...but the pellets look wrong, too small, and in Waitahora the rat population took a noticeable dive too - so I'm not sure it is the same as what the Tararua council use, but I will post the link anyways. The council did mention it was more expensive than 1080. However, the bird population soared soon after they started on it - so well worth the rate payers expense in my opinion.
https://www.connovation.co.nz/feratox-pellets
So there is alternatives, and that one is way better than 1080, as when I lived in Karamea, when they dropped the 1080, the forest completely fell silent - it was both disconcerting and very upsetting.
Anorak
Karamea also has the one of the highest concentrations of TB infection in NZ, if not the highest.
The forests in Karamea were alive and loud with Tui and bellbird last time i was there. Which was about 9 months ago.
People think it causes a silent forest but fail to actually realize the drops occur over winter when the Forrest is quiet anyway.
yes it can kill birds but, the populations bounce back stronger and faster then the possums do.
Some people say Farming is not important but the only reason farming Karamea still exists is Farming it would have been abandoned in the 1930's without it.
Its the only reason it has a road and the only reason it has power. Its the sole reason it ever existed it all.
Its also one of the most beautiful places in the world.
Feratox you remember was in the news as the inventor of it was the one who made the threats about 1080 that cost 100's of millions of dollars.
You can still get a sub lethal dose and it accumulates in the food chains
Also its kill rate is lower as even though its encapsulated it still has a smell. Rats also cause issues as they eat the jelly lure and just leave the pallets.
Faratox has its place as do other poisons and traps but you can only use it in areas that are accessable. It is illegal to use it other than hand lay it.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Kiwibiker
Yeah, as mentioned I do not think that was the exact stuff, because the pellets look wrong and they don't talk about the jaw strength needed to get to cyanide on the webpage. And the stuff the Tararua council used definitely dropped the rat population too. I know because I had a cat that would kill rats and leave them for me on the lawn laid out in a neat row. When they dropped that stuff, the rats vanished (stoats too), just before they would drop it again (bi annual) the rats would start appearing dead on the lawn again, then pow gone after another drop. They never used the jelly lure with it either, which makes me think it was another product. They did say it was pricey. Wish I could remember what it was.
I lived inside the forest at Karamea - trust me the silence is pretty much instant and very real after a 1080 drop. (I had and still have a thing about living in forests just in case you are wondering. I love living in nature, around other humans, not so much...
I think you will find it was more the timber and flax farming that was the main income for the area in the early days (I sat down and read the local history books there), they barged a lot off via the sea, but then a major earthquake fucked the harbor. They then built the road, that was redirected over the bluff when being built - and a lot of that land just happened to be owned by a prominent local politician, go figure huh! Yes farming is the principle business there now and is very important to the area. If they used the same stuff they did in Tararua, it would work for sure in Karamea.
Anorak
It will be Ferraox i would say as it patented.
Its the only encapsulated cyanide product i have ever seen. they come in different colours and sizes and lures. some are like peanut butter others like jam
As i said cyanide it cant be spread aerially so it is not an option for Karamea other than Fringe areas, Which are via ground anyway.
I have been possum monitoring in Buller pre and post drops, Landcare have also done extensive bird song monitoring pre and post drops all over NZ the data is freely available and easily found.
While i cant comment on your account it doesnt fit my own experience or any of the studies.
Timber and flax was the for forerunner to all farming on the West Coast. Not just Karamea.
But without Farming in Karamea the road would never have been pushed through from the bridle track it was. It would have been abandoned and ceased to exist much little areas up the Whanganui.
Pretty sure it was about the late 1960s before it weven got mains electricty, Still even now most cowsheds still have an old lister still inor near the shed.
Karamea as i have said is a TB hotspot, ie worst of the West Coast which is the worst of NZ.Put this into perspective The West Coast only has 400 odd Dairy herds about 200,000 cattle yet has more than 1/2 of Nz's TB.
Tarura has likely never had TB in its wildlife.
Conversely the first place TB was shown to be transmitted from Possums to Cattle was just the other side of the bluffs from Karamea at Seddonville.
TB was nearly under control on the west coast in the early 80's until the Pest boards were dissolved and Vector controls were slackened, i for one dont want to go through that heart ache again of having peoples entire herd and net worth taken in an instant. Just to satisfy a winging group of non residents of the coast or day trip hunters who like Katman make false statements about stuff they dont even understand.
The West Coast covers an area equivalent from Hamilton to wellington in length it has a popultaion under 30,000 people there is not the time or the money or the people to do the ground control needed to cover this area to either protect the native flora and fauna or eradicate TB from the wildlife.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Kiwibiker
I'm not going top disagree with much of that, though I will say I will believe my own experience over recordings made by others. My right.
The other thing I will say is yes, if course I'm very aware of the vast areas of forest the West Coast represents, amen for that. But until they work out a way to make money out of possums, the problem is never going to go away. They have been dropping 1080 for decades, bur either do not ever do it enough to truly eradicate the problem, or simply it is incapable to doing the job.
Personally I would love to see the Government spend serious money and create task forces on the West Coast (much needed employment) and other affected areas NZ Wide to hand deliver the cyanide to vast tracts of navigable land, and drop 1080 on the impossible to navigate areas. But like that would ever happen because politicians are self serving shit heads that on the whole do not give a toss about issues outside their own personal concerns. that by and large goes for both sides of the political divide.
Forum whore
I hear what you are saying but employing people to hand bait rapidly turns into farming. They never quite get them all so that they have to come back next year...
The other thing is - vast (and I mean vast) areas of the west coast are effectively unwalkable. I spent a week deer stalking in the headwaters of the Wilkinson River https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/...lkinson-River/
Its days to walk in and don't let the fancy dotted line on the map fool you. Going any direction even on the track is unpredictable and a major effort. There are areas that can be hand baited (we shared the Wilkinson Hut with a trapper) but vast areas where just walking 100m is an effort. Its just not possible and the H&S aspects make me shudder...
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Would such areas be where aeriel (low-level helicopter) drops would be applicable? Or would the canopy mess with the drop?
(Cost not being a factor)
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
Not now - the possums and climate change have killed off all the big Ratas… Very hard to stop baits getting into waterways as its very steep..
Kiwibiker
Yep, hence my walk in where you can, lay bait, drop 1080 on the rest, at least the walk in's will ensure a lot more survives. And yes, agree next year would be required as well, possibly for a fair few years. But hell, imagine the change! The totara forest I lived in took off like you would not believe when they did the bait thing every year!
Good news, there are areas of Karamea where big Ratas exist still. Right next door to my old property, had 60 very large ancient ones!
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