The 1080 debate

**jasonu** · 14th September 2018, 16:14

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

I get the large amount of territory is a problem and the remoteness and isolation, what solution would we come up with if 1080 wasn't an option?

Or the 9mm solution.

**FJRider** · 14th September 2018, 16:26

Originally Posted by frogfeaturesFZR

Agreed. However when an area stops producing economic numbers of possums, it stops getting trapped.
DOC used to use bradoforicum (?) which seemed to work well, I guess 1080 was cheaper.
I remember, as a kid, the local councils paying a ‘bounty’ on possy and rabbit tails. Up here it
was 3 22 rounds, or 1 12g shell.

You were close ... Brodifacoum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodifacoum

**husaberg** · 14th September 2018, 16:42

Originally Posted by frogfeaturesFZR

Agreed. However when an area stops producing economic numbers of possums, it stops getting trapped.
DOC used to use bradoforicum (?) which seemed to work well, I guess 1080 was cheaper.
I remember, as a kid, the local councils paying a ‘bounty’ on possy and rabbit tails. Up here it
was 3 22 rounds, or 1 12g shell.

Brodifacoum (ie talon rat poison) is not licenced for aerial applications on NZ mainland.
It has issues in regards to its speed of brakedown and its persistence in the animals if they obtain a sub lethal dose which can lead to an accumulation effect
http://www.issg.org/pdf/publications...t/3FisherP.pdf
https://www.doc.govt.nz/Documents/sc...l/docts23b.pdf

**frogfeaturesFZR** · 14th September 2018, 17:07

Originally Posted by husaberg

Brodifacoum (ie talon rat poison) is not licenced for aerial applications on NZ mainland.
It has issues in regards to its speed of brakedown and its persistence in the animals if they obtain a sub lethal dose which can lead to an accumulation effect
http://www.issg.org/pdf/publications...t/3FisherP.pdf
https://www.doc.govt.nz/Documents/sc...l/docts23b.pdf

Cheers
I’ve heard stories about its use, from my son. DOC Ranger.
But thinking back it was on islands down Fiordland / Stewart Island way.

**Woodman** · 14th September 2018, 17:22

Originally Posted by Katman

Well I don't know whether I qualify as an anti 1080 campaigner in your eyes, but I can tell you I'm certainly no hunter.

I didn't think you were a hunter, and I get your concerns about animal welfare, but I do think it is still the best solution we have at the moment, and stopping until we find another solution is just not an option.

**skippa1** · 14th September 2018, 18:30

If you take all the emotion out of the discussion. I dont think anyone wants 1080....but how else do you control the rodents, stoats, possums etc?

if you stopped using 1080 today. What would the cost be in 5 years? I suspect everybody would be a lot less happy ....

sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omelette

**Katman** · 14th September 2018, 19:20

I suppose one of the important questions is.....

Is sufficient effort and funding going into finding an alternative?

Or is there a tendency to just happily roll with the ~~cheapest~~ 'most cost effective' option?

**Woodman** · 14th September 2018, 19:40

Originally Posted by Katman

I suppose one of the important questions is.....

Is sufficient effort and funding going into finding an alternative?

Or is there a tendency to just happily roll with the ~~cheapest~~ 'most cost effective' option?

Maybe there already has been and 1080 is still the best method.

**Katman** · 14th September 2018, 19:41

Originally Posted by Woodman

Maybe there already has been and 1080 is still the best method.

Well I suppose that depends entirely on one's definition of 'best'.

**Woodman** · 14th September 2018, 19:54

Originally Posted by Katman

Well I suppose that depends entirely on one's definition of 'best'.

Trying to quantify "best" is a bit Zen.

**Taxythingy** · 14th September 2018, 20:02

Sorry, missed getting back with my opinion. PaulinNZ has it fairly covered.

It's a poor method, but there just isn't a significantly better one available that works. There MIGHT be other poisons that do the job better, but they probably won't be as mammal-specific. There might be completely different techniques that work, but until it's aerial or space-based, it isn't going to cover the massive land areas we have. I like the idea that is being trialed on the coast, where they are looking to create a fenced predator-free area and then slowly expand it. It will however take huge resourcing to cover a meaningful area in a reasonable time, even while using poison drops to eradicate.

I don't like it, but on balance, I prefer that to the harm the rats, stoats and possums cause.

**FJRider** · 14th September 2018, 20:17

Originally Posted by Katman

I suppose one of the important questions is..... is sufficient effort and funding going into finding an alternative?

Or is there a tendency to just happily roll with the ~~cheapest~~ 'most cost effective' option?

So ... it's your definition of sufficient ... against my definition of sufficient.

Which is preferable ... getting results (that may not be ideal) now ... or waiting for a cost effective solution that works (better ??) but in the meantime do nothing ...

This from the Conservation policy of the current elected [sic] Government.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1504908218

There are a range of tools available for controlling mammalian predators, including new automatic resetting traps. However, aerial application of 1080 is the best available option for possum, rat and stoat control particularly in difficult to access country. The use of 1080 is strongly supported by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment (PCE), who says it remains essential for the foreseeable future.” 3 DOC and other pest control agencies should better explain to the public the need to use aerial 1080, at least until new and alternative tools are developed.

Sounds pretty much the same as the National Party policy.

https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/defa...20170621_0.pdf

B. Use of Poisons in Animal Pest Control
Currently animal pest control in Aotearoa New Zealand involves the extensive use of poisons in ground and aerial operations because they are generally cost effective means of controlling animal pest species. Modern technology allows more precise distribution of aerial poison such as 1080 than in the past, and the amount of poison per hectare has been reduced while still maintaining effectiveness.

Interestingly ...

In general, and wherever practical, support replacing poisons with humane and safe biological and physical controls.

In other words ... they don't have any alternate plan yet ... that is either more cost effective or more practical. And ... Until they get a few more seats in Parliament ... or get into power on their own accord ... what will they concede to Labour policies to get support for some of their own ???

Don't hold your breath until new methods are tried ... unless of course you're in a shed full of 1080.