Four dead and two hurt today

**nerrrd** · 19th November 2018, 06:42

I doubt anything will come of this but posted for interest.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/natio...le-deaths-nash

**SaferRides** · 19th November 2018, 06:44

If you look at the data, "we" are doing better than car drivers. The death rate has been steady since 2013, with a slight rise earlier this year.

4 in a weekend isn't good, but it doesn't reflect the long term trend.

**SaferRides** · 19th November 2018, 06:52

Originally Posted by nerrrd

I doubt anything will come of this but posted for interest.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/natio...le-deaths-nash

"the anecdotal evidence suggested it was middle-aged men who did not have the experience to handle large motorbikes who were involved in most accidents."

Maybe looking at the actual data, if it exists, would be more helpful?

**nerrrd** · 19th November 2018, 07:09

My bike is around 225 kgs but ‘only’ 54hp, pretty sure I could kill myself on it easily enough. Haven’t ridden anything with more power, don’t see how it could make that much difference since they all have a rider controlled throttle.

Having to have a special licence for ‘bigger’ bikes might be the final nail in the coffin for local dealers.

Edit: just heard the minister on the radio, apparently they're not looking at a special licence at this point (fake news!)

**sidecar bob** · 19th November 2018, 08:11

It's all about the mid life crisis

https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/19362...ed-2-days.html

**KezzaCFC** · 19th November 2018, 08:30

"Whether there needs to be something in place where if you buy a motorcycle over a certain CC rating then you have to pass a certain sort of test or you've got to be able to prove you can handle it in difficult sorts of situations.

Wait..like the full license test?
Okay yeah if you got your full license back in '65 on the 250cc with your mate from the local police station then yeah a mandatory refresher license could prove helpful.

But its a moot point as everyone rides like a saint for an hr while their instructor is behind them, marking their every move. As soon as that's done, then boom back to old habits.

**KezzaCFC** · 19th November 2018, 08:37

Originally Posted by SaferRides

"the anecdotal evidence suggested it was middle-aged men who did not have the experience to handle large motorbikes who were involved in most accidents."

Maybe looking at the actual data, if it exists, would be more helpful?

This help?

**sidecar bob** · 19th November 2018, 08:47

Originally Posted by SaferRides

"the anecdotal evidence suggested it was middle-aged men who did not have the experience to handle large motorbikes who were involved in most accidents."

Maybe looking at the actual data, if it exists, would be more helpful?

There are a huge bunch of middle aged men who do have the expierence & skill to handle a large motorcycle.
It would be a shame if "lifestyle bikers" made it more difficult for "lifetime bikers"

I went to a funeral for an old family uncle recently & at the after do, some long lost cousin of my wife was explaining to me the joy of "rollin on her hog". She had been riding for a couple of years at best.
My wife asked, why didn't you tell her you ride, I replied, it was more fun that way.

**Zipper2T** · 19th November 2018, 08:48

Originally Posted by KezzaCFC

"Whether there needs to be something in place where if you buy a motorcycle over a certain CC rating then you have to pass a certain sort of test or you've got to be able to prove you can handle it in difficult sorts of situations.

Wait..like the full license test?
Okay yeah if you got your full license back in '65 on the 250cc with your mate from the local police station then yeah a mandatory refresher license could prove helpful.

But its a moot point as everyone rides like a saint for an hr while their instructor is behind them, marking their every move. As soon as that's done, then boom back to old habits.

At least it might encourage them to trade in the hard hat for a full face helmet.

**Fresh Oats** · 19th November 2018, 09:01

Originally Posted by SaferRides

If you look at the data, "we" are doing better than car drivers. The death rate has been steady since 2013, with a slight rise earlier this year.

4 in a weekend isn't good, but it doesn't reflect the long term trend.

Are we though?
We make up 16% of the road death toll. Doesn't sound that bad right? Except that there's 3,400,000ish registered cars and only 150,000ish registered motorbikes. So we're only around 4% of the traffic. And that's NOT including trucks and goods vans which there are a further 750,000ish of the traffic as well as the odd bus, moped, caravan. So we're actually less than 4%. Yet 16% of the road deaths.

Interestingly (to me anyway because I'm a young fella) it's all you old fogies that keep dying. In 2016 (the earliest data I could find with a quick google search) of the 50 motorbike rider deaths, 34 were over 40 years old, 5 in their 30's, 11 in their 20's and 1 in their teens. It was similar numbers for all the previous years. Typically baby boomers, ruining it for us millennials. :P

We also can't entirely blame it on other road users as the primary cause of crashes (in the case of fatal ones), it was found that 36% of the time we were not at fault, 8% we were partially at fault and 56% it was entirely our fault.
So yea, cars (or trucks or whatever) are at fault for a third of fatal motorbike crashes, but that still leaves 2/3rds.

Further, 14% was purely from alcohol and drugs. 20% was riding too fast for the conditions. And 13% was a combination of speed and alcohol. 53% neither of those reasons.

Overtaking makes up 7%, head on makes up 26%, loss of control makes up 36%, rear-ending 5%, intersections 20%, misc 4%, pedestrians 2%.
The interesting aspect about this though is that overtaking we're less than 40% at fault, and fatal crashes at interestions we're only at fault about 21% of the time. The key areas that are us killing us in big numbers is head on crashes (75% of the time, our fault) and loss of control (95% of time our fault).

Some study the government did put us at 21 times more likely to die on the roads compared to a car user. So I'd hardly say we're doing better than car users.
HOWEVER, the way I see it is that this is misleading. This accounts for ALL motorcyclists. Including the 27% of idiots that died while drink driving. I don't drink drive and so my chances, that 21 times more likely, goes down. This is the same for a lot of things. 21% of crashes happen to people of their learners, aka inexperienced. I've been riding for over a decade (on both urban and open roads) and so my chances go down. I ride a 250cc primarily around a city, so my chances go down. I don't do stupid overtake maneuvers, I take corners at appropriate speeds, I check my blind spots, I wear protective gear at all times etc.. etc.. etc.. so while we as a whole are 21x more likely to die, I personally and many users here most certainly are not.

I dunno. I just don't see this problem as a 'me' problem. I do my part to ride properly, I can't force other people to do the same. There has to be a level of self responsibility.
I don't even see it as a government problem. There's only so many laws you can pass. Drink driving is illegal and yet people still do it and kill themselves. Crossing the yellow line is illegal, yet people do it and kill themselves. There's always going to be a number of people who kill themselves on the roads. That's literally never gonna change. And motorbikes tend to attract a certain type of individual and so we are always going to be disproportionately represented inc rash statistics. Not much you can do about it beyond banning all motorbikes which is fucking stupid and another discussion in regards to nanny state and personal freedoms.
At the end of the day it all comes down to self responsibility for ALL road users. Know your limits, don't be a cunt.

**rastuscat** · 19th November 2018, 09:46

Originally Posted by Fresh Oats

Know your limits, don't be a cunt.

Why should I change now?

**Flip** · 19th November 2018, 09:57

Originally Posted by Fresh Oats

Are we though?

At the end of the day it all comes down to self responsibility for ALL road users. Know your limits, don't be a cunt.

I have become a bit afraid of riding in anything but perfect conditions, with people I trust. I guess I have buried a few biker frends but more have dies of drugs or cancer. I have got to the stage where I look at any unknown rider and wonder if their perception of road hazards/risks is the same as mine.

At easter we took vintage military bikes down to Wanaka from Gisborne and had a brillant trip, didnt have any problems other than breakdowns, my interests these days is certanly towards vintage bikes because of the risks riding at high speed. Who would have thought that after 40 years on two wheels I would finally become wary of motorcycling.

How many folk here have taken up the ride forever cources?

**SaferRides** · 19th November 2018, 10:19

Originally Posted by KezzaCFC

This help?

Thanks. It is the total for each age though, not the rate per km or number of riders, plus the age bands are different.

I have graphed it and adjusted the age range to 10-year bands by adding the 20-24 and 25-29 numbers. Assuming that 40+ is 40-65, the total for this age band was divided by 2.5. The 15-19 group was left out as the numbers are small.

There doesn't seem to be any trend, just year to year variations. I might do the injuries later if I get bored.