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Thread: older riders surviving badly

  1. #151
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    3rd May 2016 - 17:36
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/110...th-of-auckland

    Another one . Can't comment on the cause, but devastating all the same

  2. #152
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    2nd March 2018 - 15:32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KezzaCFC View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/110...th-of-auckland

    Another one . Can't comment on the cause, but devastating all the same
    It's a busy road now. Improvements are long overdue.

  3. #153
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    1st February 2004 - 11:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerous View Post
    ... this has been on my mind a bit of late, more so the last week with the 2nd funeral of a friend on Saturday, earlier in the year was a very dear friend at 49yrs old, hers was avery freak acco... last week a van turned in front of a friend... 48yrs...
    Now Im 50 and I know I have passed my "best by date" shit im not so agile or fit, Im now blind in one eye the others struggling... I struggle to concentrate like I used to I know all this but cant slow down... why?
    Are we older riders loosing it due to age... or are we loosing it due to being to long in the tooth ie to complacent?

    I want to hear from the same age and older riders that may not ride much these days... ststs show the older generation are dieing... why???
    well... its now 3 in a year, all around 50yrs old... the latest being a fucking good bastard of a mate Mike on his KTM690 returning home from the Brass. (yes I know that was a month ago but couldn't be bothered talking bout it till now.

    Now, I have taken on board the comments re current time in the saddle over total time in the saddle, ie ive been riding since 15 now over 50 on the road and the track and around the world... but these dys my riding hours are minimal, still as many rallys as I can fit in but still way down on the good oll days.
    So I think there is a lot of merit in keeping the brain and mussles in a decent riding state of fitness....

    How ever we must remember the basics, in Mikes case he was proberly following a tad to close as he colected the bikes in frount which sent him into a oncoming cage... ALTHO it was caused by a tourist near stopping on a bridge in a 100km zone to take a fucking photo of a river take care aging riders... take fucking care...
    cheers DD
    (Definately Dodgy)



  4. #154
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    21st March 2010 - 13:28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerous View Post
    well... its now 3 in a year, all around 50yrs old... the latest being a fucking good bastard of a mate Mike on his KTM690 returning home from the Brass. (yes I know that was a month ago but couldn't be bothered talking bout it till now.

    Now, I have taken on board the comments re current time in the saddle over total time in the saddle, ie ive been riding since 15 now over 50 on the road and the track and around the world... but these dys my riding hours are minimal, still as many rallys as I can fit in but still way down on the good oll days.
    So I think there is a lot of merit in keeping the brain and mussles in a decent riding state of fitness....

    How ever we must remember the basics, in Mikes case he was proberly following a tad to close as he colected the bikes in frount which sent him into a oncoming cage... ALTHO it was caused by a tourist near stopping on a bridge in a 100km zone to take a fucking photo of a river take care aging riders... take fucking care...
    to be fair, I have not done much riding and im getting grumpier by the day, life gets in the way some times. I have changed my riding style a little, I don't go as fast as I used to and I don't tend to follow as close as I used to but I still ride my own ride.

    not good to hear about your mate, I gotta admit I was worried when I heard about it at the time as I had quite a few friends that would have been in the area at the time.
    never good to hear of a bike accident.

  5. #155
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    25th January 2008 - 17:56
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    Thumbs up

    Shitty luck dangerous, bloody shitty luck. When it's not something of your doing or within your control, you are somewhat in the hands of the Gods.
    4 months ago I sold my beloved Low K's,2009,1250 Bandy Bandit.About 3 years ago I started looking for another bike, she and I were going to end up under something, reaction times not so good, all other functions OK, but not as sharp as before.
    So, hey I bought a 2016 Africa Twin with DCT Transmission.
    Started my riding on mates farms, moved on to my sisters boyfriends road bikes, wrung their necks off, then finally bought a 110 Nonda and got going on the road for real, many years ago.
    Got up to an 850 Suzi with Yoshi everything, this machine was raced by an army officer and was only for sale cause he was off overseas to a posting, what a machine. Rode that bike till I was absolutely comfortable with it's every nuance, could and DID beat pretty much anyone who tried.
    Got kids and a house, sold her! 17 years later I got an old Jam jar, (Still got the ol coal burner, another 17 odd years later)
    Progressed to the bandit, ridden her for nearly 8 years.
    Got the Twin 4 months ago, done nothing but weekend rides with wifey (who has now ridden for over 10 years herelf) and so far clocked up over 7000k's, no drama's, done some metal, done alot of windy stuff and some open flat out stuff, haven't once felt the need or the inclination to go, fast.
    Loved every minute of riding a comfortable (oh so comfy) not small, not too slow, heavy (for a trail bike as wifey calls it) automatic motorcycle, cant begin to to describe the shit eating grin when I look back to see the sprot bike still weaving off the line while I'm already at the next set of lights/intersection."
    Nowadays I keep and actively maintain a good gap, if others push in or come too close I let em know and I actively push em back, works!
    Anticipation is as good as ever and it's that over slower reflex's, reaction times etc that I beleive is keeping wifey and I , as safe as we can be.
    Thankfully we've both got our health and we're not far off being able to say fuck you world, and simply go off and do our own thing, bikes of course are in the mix.
    Nex thing is , ride safe courses (wifey's done Bronze, not me yet)and perhaps IAM, thinking about that one, I like how if you want to get properly involved, you can.
    Don't give it up unless you absoultely have to, is my advice.
    On a brighter note, through KB and the many bike groups I've been associated with I've ridden with many older(20+years on me) guys and girls who still absolutely love what they're still doing.
    Every day above ground is a good day!:

  6. #156
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    8th April 2013 - 19:33
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    [QUOTE=caseye;1131137316]Shitty luck dangerous, bloody shitty luck.
    yes I also offer my condolences, I've lost a good mate to measures that were out of his control, I've also had a couple of crashes over the last couple of years, I'm 52 this year, my eyesights not what it used to be, it's slower to flick focus from one thing to another, I don't need glasses yet, but close up reading is getting harder, I dropt my roadbike on some fine gravel spread across the road by a farmer crossing back /forth on a cnr, very minor accident, I fixed the damage to bike, just scuffed my knee.
    then in December last year I got high sided off my xr650 on onto tarseal at 80kph ( hot tar) broke my scapula, wrenched shoulder, and worst broke two screws holding my wrist together, started thinking I was losing it, but it was dumb luck and riding abit too fast for the shitty knobbly i had on the back - lesson learned.
    I reassured myself by having ago at something different,
    I entered a hillclimb event, had a great time , but also restored a level of confidence in my riding ability.
    I realise I need more training as I get older, as if you don't use em' you lose em' , mostly I've previously used my trailbike for retraining the handling skills, but on the road I try by playing a game "what if?" I imagine a scenario happening ahead, then take evasive action , while I have the road to myself of course, plus the obligatory brake testing when fitting new tyres, or making other changes to my bikes, I'm also aware my reactive reactions aren't as nimble as they once were, training helps with that, but I also don't push it as hard out as I used too, just seems to hurt more and take longer to heal these days, so have to ride smarter

  7. #157
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    25th June 2012 - 11:56
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    Something to consider… rider was having trouble with left turns, turned out he’d had a stroke in past. Now we have such great medical treatment people recover from these a bit more. Keep an eye on your mates if they’ve been through that.

    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  8. #158
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    24th January 2022 - 11:23
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    used to ride sidecars (and solo) all over europe, had a mate-debilitating muscular atrophy problem-couldnt walk anymore-he built a sidecar too, we rode all over europe to meets like egt in luxemburg, elephantentreff in austria, other events thru eastern europe, gespanncross events (quite an active scene) - had to help him on and off his bike, organise his wheelchair, help with his pissbag etc - wasnt always 'nice' for me, but you gotta give the man respect - he knew things were only going to get worse so made the most of it while he could - rode mostly landesstrassen, autobaehne and endless lines of trucks can be intimidating - gotta be hard when ya body dont keep up with the mind like that - where do you draw the line
    Be who you are and say what you feel cos those who mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

  9. #159
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    23rd March 2024 - 18:11
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    "Too old to be riding....."

    Motorcycle Riding Survival Tips

    Motorcycles usually need your help to kill you. Don’t comply.

    I've been riding motorcycles since age 19 - apart from a 10 year hiatus when my kids were young - after which i bought a superb touring Honda (1997). After 60,000km touring on it, I had a near-fatal highside at age 56 (2007). It should have killed me, and it didn't. I learned two new lessons which I wanted to pass on to my riding friends. Those were to do with our passing technique, and the danger of deadlines. I wrote and distributed a detailed analysis of the causes of the accident - called The Pies of Life. I thought I knew it all. My shoulder took three years to heal well enough to ride again.

    Now, 15 years later, I've toured a further 100,000km, in NZ, North America, and Australia. I now value getting there alive more than I value getting there fast. There are many articles on gear, bike prep, and courses on rider skill (especially cornering and braking), and some of them have been helpful for keeping me alive and riding.

    Soon after I bought my big Honda, I was told that the best way of avoiding an accident is to "NOT be there at the TIME". Then, in 1996, I thought that the advice was so obvious that it was trite and irrelevant to me. I've since come to understand that it is profound advice, and useful on many levels, especially in planning, preparation, and when riding.

    Hence the following survival tips. Of course you need good gear, a roadworthy bike, and as much skill as you can muster. You already know that. These tips are what I have concluded during thousands of hours riding since 2007. You might already know some of them. Good. Pick the ones you don't know yet.

    I've grouped them into three categories; Potentially Fatal Assumptions, Hazards to Consider, and Your Behaviour (including Dos, and Don'ts)

    Potentially Fatal Assumptions:

    "The road is clear, and will stay clear." This is assumed by all of us when we follow close behind a truck, go around a blind corner, ride with a fogged visor, ride at night, ride while admiring the scenery, and so on. The assumption is based on hope, not evidence. Any piece of road that you are about to travel over without first inspecting it is in UNKNOWN condition, with UNKNOWN obstacles. This assumption nearly killed me.

    "Other drivers will behave as I expect them to." The assumption is easily and often demonstrated to be false, most of the time. We share road space with all types. Drivers who bought their licence, who have no licence, who are superb and courteous drivers, who became incapable of driving safely decades ago, or who are too drunk or doped to be competent or predictable. All of them can, in a second, become capable of killing you. They don't WANT to do that - they are merely indifferent beforehand.. It's up to YOU to deny them the opportunity. "DON'T BE THERE AT THE TIME" Observe their behaviour carefully when following, and let them pass if they are too close in the mirrors. It’s MUCH better to have an erratic driver in front or you. You regain control of his ability to kill you.

    "There will be no negative surprises." Bridges will be intact, road will be clear of oil, pillion won't lean the wrong way or dig you in the ribs on a corner, bees won't get in your collar, trees will stay off the road, front tyre will not blowout. You will not misread a corner, and brake, instead of digging deeper. (This is VERY counter intuitive. Practice it when it’s safe to do so.)

    "Your skill will save you." You reckon you are an experienced rider, and skilled. You subconsciously reckon, "If I get into trouble, my skill is enough to get me out of it safely....." It might work. Or, you might get lucky. Or, not. Ego and arrogance are hazardous when you're riding. Control them both. Even better, leave them both at home.

    Hazards:
    Road
    Surface – 100% asphalt? Slick spots? Hot spots? White lines?
    Obstacles – boxes, possums, lumber, stopped car, no lights, empty cartons, full cartons.
    Adhesion – can i see diesel in that shady corner?
    On Road
    Commuters, still sleepy, bored, telephone, makeup, coffee
    Urban delivery drivers - usually in a hurry, and prepared to risk collisions.
    Males <50y in company utes. Their progress "is more important than yours".
    Tail gaters. Let them pass (safely). Better in front of you where you can control your distance from them.
    Insecure loads: tradies wheelbarrows, DIYers bringing sheets of ply or roofing home.
    Vehicles beside you on the motorway. Ride where there are gaps both sides. You might need them.
    Roadside
    Stock, dogs
    kids playing
    pedestrians
    parked vehicles (opening doors, pulling out)
    Farm driveways on RHS - Don't pass. Could be a teenager on a quad bike coming out, only looks right for traffic, and turns left into you head-on.
    Cyclists
    Armco and egg-slicer median wires
    Your bike
    maintenance (tyres, tubes, frame integrity and brakes should be impeccable)
    blow-out risk minimised (especially the front - you will almost certainly lose control)
    treat petrol with respect. Do not ride with a petrol leak. Have an escape route at the petrol pump.
    minimise bee sting risk
    teach pillion how to lean with the bike, and how to communicate with you, and when not to.
    Self Stay off the bike, or stop and wait, if you are:
    Fatigued
    Tired
    Angry
    Thirsty
    Upset
    Cold
    Hot
    Dehydrated
    Daydreaming
    Late (stop, advise the person you are meeting your new (conservative) ETA)
    Fellow Riders
    Some of them will be loose cannons. Find out which, and keep them in front, at a distance. Don'r ride close to them, and make better choices of future fellow riders.


    Weather
    Stay aware of the sky and forecasts
    Don't plan to ride in rain, hail, snow, ice. Take care not to be the highest local lightning rod. Slow down in strong crosswinds. Anticipate and avoid sunstrike and vizor fogging. (The western side of the Whangamoas can have serious sunstrike just before sunset.)

    Your behaviour:
    Behaviours to practise, and get good at:

    Plan your pass.
    Choose whether and when to do it. Keep 4 seconds back, check clear road ahead. Decide when to pass. Check you are not already being overtaken by a follower. Execute it; move right, THEN accelerate. NOT BOTH AT ONCE. Get 1 or 2 seconds ahead, check passed vehicle in left mirror, and move back left. At all times during the pass, be prepared to brake hard and duck back in behind the vehicle being passed.

    Check fellow riders' habits and behaviour. Ensure they do not add risk to you. If they do, and choose not to improve their behaviour, just say you'll catch up with them later, and ride well behind them for the rest of the trip. Choose better next time.

    If you do not continuously inspect the 5 seconds of road you are about to use, it is only a matter of time until it will surprise you, and maybe kill you. You are choosing to ride over it. Every second you choose to continue, you put your life in its hands if you don't inspect. If it nearly kills you, don't complain that it "happened to you". You chose to relinquish control of your future.

    Remember, the best way to avoid an accident is to NOT BE THERE AT THE TIME. Observe, anticipate, preserve your buffers. Stay 4 seconds back from the vehicle in front (6 seconds in the wet) and INSPECT your path. Leave room (and time) for surprises, errors, and idiots. Those buffers are your primary control points to stop others killing you. Your riding attitude and skills are your primary control points to stop you killing yourself.

    Behaviours to avoid:

    DON'T plan to ride:
    - in the dark
    - in rain, snow, hail, or ice (less than 4C say)
    - to a deadline
    - more than (say) 6 hours or 500km per day (reduce as necessary, for weather, conditions, and age)
    - with a pillion or fellow rider(s) you don't know and trust
    - without adequate gear
    - to and from work
    - amongst commuters
    - on freeways in or near cities (especially during rush hour)
    - if bike is faulty or suspect (especially brakes or tyres)
    - without headlight on
    - without pre-start walk around bike including kicking the tyres to check for overnight flat

    Don't start (or continue) riding while ....daydreaming, tired, cold, hot, upset, angry, worried, or embarrassed. Your survival depends on your full attention, buffers, and skill. Your entire focus needs to stay on the road, and potential hazards.

    ......”Don’t get off till you get there......”

    FWIW. Feb 2024. 73 now. How much longer???? Do I wait for non-fatal fright?

  10. #160
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    So you missed from 1998 to 1997 when bikes (and tyres) got really good . That's a shame but you only recompense is to not make the same misgiving. That may mean a lighter bike when you start to feel the weight. But if you can ride,, don't put it off.

    I do agree with most of your advice. I really do. But the rain in nz happens, don't be afraid of it.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  11. #161
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    5th December 2009 - 12:32
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    Yeah, some good advice in there that some of us have picked up from years of riding until you get to the Don't bit at the end. The only one of those I agree with is the pillion and that is because after riding since the late 1980's I have only taken one person on the back once. I simply don't want to have to deal with explaining things if we get taken out, I mess up or shit just happens.

    If you don't ride in the dark or the rain you are missing out on some great riding experiences and to be honest if you try and avoid those conditions you are going to come a cropper when you eventually and inevitably get caught out one day. As F5 says, this is New Zealand.

    One point - you want to be looking far further ahead than five seconds, especially if you are suggesting leaving a four second gap before overtaking someone.

    After attending and reporting on over 200 fatal crashes in the last 20 years, including quite a few two wheelers, my survival advice for the reader is a somewhat shorter list -

    1. Don't be a dickhead. That means don't ride drunk and remember there is a time and a place for giving it laldy and it is not everywhere all the time.
    2. Ride like your life depends on it. This one accounts for all the other dickheads on the road.

  12. #162
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    15th October 2009 - 17:33
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    Almost all of my riding would come under the 'DON'T' list.

    No serious accidents so far touch wood, a few close calls. I seem to be able to ride defensively enough in Auckland traffic to avoid the worst.

    A tip I would add is don't ride in blind spots or in places where drivers don't expect you to be, unless you have a way out.

    Also I know top boxes are uncool, but I have one with a (fading) hi-vis lid and an auxiliary brake light much closer to the average car-driver's eye-line, which might help in traffic.
    Moe: Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I...I can't compete with that stuff.
    - The Simpsons

  13. #163
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    I would add to the list of things to be aware of - beware of car drivers wearing hats. No rational explanation for this but it seems just about every bit of car-driving dickheadedness has been a hat-wearer. Going to bowls or golf, returnng from bowls or golf (via the bar), young twats with caps on backwards, turbans, hijabs, whatever. The common denominator seems to be a head covering
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
    (PostalDave on ADVrider)

  14. #164
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    24th January 2022 - 11:23
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    ... if you dont ride in the rain or dark you shouldnt be riding - fairweather riders, fairweather sailers, fairweather friends, you dont need 'em

    ... finding your limits means pushing boundaries - you fall off, you and your bike get hurt - get up, get back on your horse or go home

    ... you need to understand your bikes - how they work, balance, how you effect your bikes and how they effect you - learn how to shit your pants-gracefully

    ... there are idiots - they die, sometimes unfortunately they take others with them

    ... if youve riden long enough you collect dead friends - many unlucky - if you dont learn to read the road AND think for others you will get hurt - if youre lucky - and this means long-vision, reading driveways, paths, children, animals, intersections, oncoming traffic, traffic in your direction, laneswappers, rearvision mirrors, spidey-senses ... just to start ... making multiple splitsecond decisions and reactions every instant of every ride - its all about flow, you become zenned into it, lose sense of time (more like time slows down) ... driving cages on-road is simply boring

    ... i have a personal dont - PILLION - neither as rider nor passenger

    oh, and as for hats - damn right - stay away from them (prefer the word hat here, technically a helmet is a head-covering)
    Be who you are and say what you feel cos those who mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

  15. #165
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    3rd March 2008 - 11:55
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    Most of that is generally good advice.

    Personally I work on the basis of always looking for the what-ifs, assume others on the road are about to do something stupid, and trying not to do something stupid myself. I'll get there when I get there, if you're faster or slower all good you do your thing and I'll see you at the next stop.

    There's a few things on the Don't list that I would consider a bit over restrictive - sometimes to get where you are going it will involve riding in the dark/rain/traffic, I have no problem with a competent pillion (best impression of a sack of spuds strapped on the back), and the work commute is far less tedious on the little bike.

    But mostly it comes down to a couple of things, ride on the road like you're in the drivers seat of a car, and assume everyone else on the road is about to do something that can kill you.
    Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987

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