older riders surviving badly

[dangerous]

Bright-as riding lights as well as your headlight helps with the visibility, especially if on of the riding lights 'jiggles' a bit!

ya reckon....
its not that people dont see a bike... its that there brain dosent regester it as a danger as it is smaler than them... ie the average Jo would stop for a truck with no lights before a bike with a light

other thing is those that think high beam or a bright light is good NO shit pwople its to hard to judge distance DONT do it eg I had a close call with a adventure bike with a dozen day lights on it sure I could see it but thought h was way further than he was... sorry dude

[Banditbandit]

There does seem to be a general unwillingness to wear Hi Vis, especially by older riders.

I'm with Dangerous - I ride in black.

I saw a harley coming towards me a while ago - big as wind shield .. it wasn't till I was along side him that I realized he was wearing Hi-Viz - I could not see it through the wind shield. Behind him was his large luggage load - doubt if the Hi-Viz could be seen from the rear either ..

Another mate, riding in full on Hi-Viz got hit by a car - the first thing the driver said was "Sorry Mate I didn't see you .. ""

I'm skeptical about the value of Hi-Viz .. being aware of what is going on around you and in front of you - way in front of you - is the best protection .

[Banditbandit]

ya reckon....
its not that people dont see a bike... its that there brain dosent regester it as a danger as it is smaler than them... ie the average Jo would stop for a truck with no lights before a bike with a light

other thing is those that think high beam or a bright light is good NO shit pwople its to hard to judge distance DONT do it eg I had a close call with a adventure bike with a dozen day lights on it sure I could see it but thought h was way further than he was... sorry dude

Yes. I fucking hate bikes coming towards me with a high beam - physical hurts my eyes - the rider is blinding the driver come towards him at a potentially 200klick closing speed .. and it messes up the distance perception ...

I'm tempted to put the 4x4 lights on high beam (when I'm in that) - but then you have two people blinded ..

[pritch]

You can only do so much. Trains have a big, bright as fuck light, and people still get hit by them.

[george formby]

You can only do so much. Trains have a big, bright as fuck light, and people still get hit by them.

I resemble that comment.

The whole thing about our brains and consequently vision being wired to see some things but disregard others is very true. Pretty sure someone posted a link to an article by an RAF pilot on how we see things here awhile ago.

Trains.. I failed to see one instantly. Big green and gleaming brass steam train, belching out smoke and, er, steam. T'was Gabriel our local steam train crossing the State Highway right in front of me. My brain did not pick it up, I'm used to looking for it approaching the crossing but this day it was creeping over the crossing.
As I approached something was telling me the view in front was different, my brain wasn't screaming "TRAIN", just something not right here. Then I spotted it. Probably happened in a fraction of a second but it was a bit weird.

I was reminded of this when the young woman in Germany pulled out in front of a Leopard tank during her driving test and had a wee nudge.

[GazzaH]

The RAF pilot thing is well worth a careful look. No, look twice. Ho ho.

Physically seeing something, even something as big as s fuck off train, truck or tank, is not the same as registering, processing and reacting to the danger. They are separate activities. It's similar to "the cocktail party effect". Ever noticed someone mention your name from way across a crowded room, and looked up, thinking "What? Whassup?". What's going on there is pattern recognition - a fairly sophisticated capability deep in the brain.

A lot of what we do in life revolves around pattern recognition. It's why we pay so much attention to "coincidence", "luck" and "experience". It's the basis for most forms of learning through repetition and practice.

It's good enough, hopefully, to recognize the difference between, say, an enemy rushing towards you with a spear, and a fellow tribe member rushing towards you to spear the leopard just behind you.

Rational thought is distinct from the reflexive flight-or-flight stuff. Aside from taking place in separate parts of the brain, rational thought takes more 'CPU cycles' making it slower ... but it's more refined, more sophisticated, more capable. Sometimes - such as when rapidly approaching a level crossing with the unanticipated presence of hundreds of tonnes of train - slow is bad, very bad. Sometimes - such as reflexively grabbing a big fistful of brake when sliding unexpectedly - fast is bad, very bad too. And, in a nutshell, that's the paradox of our biology.

[scumdog]

I'm with Dangerous - I ride in black.

I saw a harley coming towards me a while ago - big as wind shield .. it wasn't till I was along side him that I realized he was wearing Hi-Viz - I could not see it through the wind shield. Behind him was his large luggage load - doubt if the Hi-Viz could be seen from the rear either ..

.

I've seen the same many times - I wonder if they ever have a peer revue to get an idea how visible review hi-viz really is??

[scumdog]

You can only do so much. Trains have a big, bright as fuck light, and people still get hit by them.

Went to one such crash - the driver claimed he looked way past the train that was right on front of him, looking for an oncoming train.

(He survived, his Y-fronts didn't)

[AllanB]

There does seem to be a general unwillingness to wear Hi Vis, especially by older riders.

What I do know is if I turn up at my clients worksites wearing black instead of Hi Vis gear, they won't let me in. Must be a reason for that.

Not interested in compulsory Hi-Viz. Get Fucked.

I'd ban full black helmets though. Black with a bright pattern is fine.


Your client insisting on Hi-vis nowadays is solely to tick off health and safety boxes. The original reason is lost in bloody paperwork.

There is so much post earthquake Hi-viz in Christchurch that your brain has switched off recognizing it for it's intention. Add to that road cones. Thousands and thousands of friggen road cones we all ignore.

[tigertim20]

Hi vis is only going to incrementally increase the possibility that the braindead half asleep cunt on the road MIGHT see me.

Id rather rely on strategies that rely on ME, such as paying attention, or doing advanced training.

I've never been to a training session where I didn't learn something.

[GazzaH]

Are any of you seriously suggesting that wearing hi-viz makes you MORE vulnerable? Do you think we become targets or something?

I accept that high-viz might have no effect, sometimes, and might be (is!) effective other times ... so on balance the net effect is positive, isn't it?

We're talking about deliberately being seen, here, not deliberately remaining hidden like hunters in the bush ... and even there, high vis is recommended to reduce the risk of friendly fire.




Aside: "Friendly fire", what a strange term. Friends don't shoot each other, or if they do, I doubt they remain friends. What's friendly about being shot?

[nerrrd]

Are any of you seriously suggesting that wearing hi-viz makes you MORE vulnerable? Do you think we become targets or something?

I accept that high-viz might have no effect, sometimes, and might be (is!) effective other times ... so on balance the net effect is positive, isn't it? [/I]

Seems there’s a lot of riders who equate wearing hi-vis with wearing a tutu or something, it’s a real challenge to their egos.

They then science the shit out of the idea to justify it.

[Berries]

Are any of you seriously suggesting that wearing hi-viz makes you MORE vulnerable? Do you think we become targets or something?

I don't think anyone has suggested that.

What I would say is that IMO the proponents of hi-viz have some over inflated value of its worth. I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference to my safety on the road, if I did I would wear one. My concern (probably the wrong word, I don't really care that much about other people) is that those people who do think it makes a difference will unwittingly have that in their subconscious and think it is like some magic shield and therefore drop their guard just that tiny little bit when they are weighing up whether that car coming towards them has seen them. No evidence of this whatsoever, but I don't want to be in that position and would rather put all my efforts in to my riding and survival skills than looking like a learner or an instructor.

We're talking about deliberately being seen, here, not deliberately remaining hidden like hunters in the bush ... and even there, high vis is recommended to reduce the risk of friendly fire.

And how well is that working?

Seems there’s a lot of riders who equate wearing hi-vis with wearing a tutu or something, it’s a real challenge to their egos.

What colour is your bike? Just interested as this would seem the best way to increase visibility but you don't see many yellow bikes out there.

[AllanB]

Hi-vis

Just saying I don't want to wear that. Same as I don't wear a tie at work unless I have to represent the company at court.

The Ducati is bright red. It has DRL and a throaty exhaust. If they can't see or hear me on the road as I am, a pretty wee yellow vest won't do much.

[pritch]

Do you think we become targets or something?

Abso-fucking-lutely. When I was riding my moped drivers would head straight for the piece of road I was about to use. Presumably their thinking was that I would get out of their way or I'd get hit. This happened too often to be random, it doesn't happen on a bigger bike.

Aside: "Friendly fire", what a strange term. Friends don't shoot each other, or if they do, I doubt they remain friends. What's friendly about being shot?

"Friendly fire" is an oxymoron