Uber Uber Uber Alles

[pritch]

When your opening your Christmas presents spare a thought for the poor Chinese person on sub minimum wages working in Dickensian conditions.

Marginally closer to home, the poor bastards working at Amazon.

And yes, JRM is a piece of work.

[TheDemonLord]

Would you prefer the Sun or the Times?

One of the Security Guards who used to work at facility I'm at started with Uber and went out and bought a 'less than 4 years old car", got all his Police checks and Taxi licence.
He is from India and we had a few discussions on it.
How do you pay your tax?
What tax.
Have you told your insurance company your using the vehicle for commercial purposes?
What?
And so on.
He showed me the app he was using and the money going he was getting, good for an extra bit of pin money but to plan your life around not so much.

I'm certainly glad we don't have a Tory govt with the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg, the likes of him make me want to put on my Yellow Vest.

I dislike corporates especially the modern ones who pay even less tax and wages like Amazon,Uber, Facebook, Apple, and so on.

When your opening your Christmas presents spare a thought for the poor Chinese person on sub minimum wages working in Dickensian conditions.
Merry Xmas.

Can you point out exactly where Uber are to blame for this? If you're so heartbroken about the Poor Chinese, stop buying things at a discount price, pay for the full cost of a Product (but somehow, I doubt you will) - furthermore - considering what happened to China before they allowed a little bit of free Market Capitalism and where they are now - that 'Poor Chinese Person on sub Minimun wages' is still better off than the 'Dead Chinese person who starved to death'

And no surprise you're not a fan of JRM, I guess someone advocating for personal responsibility and personal liberty is Anathema to you...

[Ocean1]

So called Gig Economy is a crock.

Another way of having people at your beck and call without any certainty.

Delivering food and driving drunks around is not being self employed.

So who should be paying for that certainty?

There's just three places in the world you can get a superyacht built, one of them is Auckland. The industry here collapsed multiple times under traditional business models, having to pay for services during the majority of the time you don't need them simply isn't sustainable.

Now it's generating jobs that never existed, could never exist any other way. Try telling the owner of a marine upholstery business that he has to go back to working full time 40hrs a week for whatever the union and his boss decide he's worth.

Uber might very well be taking advantage of their subbies in India, but if so it's because they're arseholes, not because they're failing to pay minimum wage for 40hrs a week.

[nerrrd]

I don't know, if the company promoted being a full time driver as a valid career choice and backs that up with financial incentives while in 'start up' mode, before paring it all back and moving to 'sustainable' mode where it turns out to be more of a part time gig, isn't that a bit ethically questionable??

Unless your attitude is 'stupid people (i.e. those who took our claims at face value and didn't draw up a long term business plan before committing to provide our services) deserve what they get'?

There was that whole thing about those agents in India overselling education here in NZ a while back which seems like a similar deal and one I would be ashamed to be associated with.

Anyway Uber itself 'll be ok, looks like they're going public next year so more lovely money for them https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12173613

[Voltaire]

So who should be paying for that certainty?

There's just three places in the world you can get a superyacht built, one of them is Auckland. The industry here collapsed multiple times under traditional business models, having to pay for services during the majority of the time you don't need them simply isn't sustainable.

Now it's generating jobs that never existed, could never exist any other way. Try telling the owner of a marine upholstery business that he has to go back to working full time 40hrs a week for whatever the union and his boss decide he's worth.

Uber might very well be taking advantage of their subbies in India, but if so it's because they're arseholes, not because they're failing to pay minimum wage for 40hrs a week.

Helps to have some skills.
I've turned up in 3 countries over my working life with no contacts and its worked out. Helps to have a trade that's in demand.
I'm familiar with the Gig Economy as did temping as a Sparky for 2-3 years in the UK, been out of work for months there too.

If you work in a field thats powered by discretionary spending expect unstable working condtions.

I'm seeing a lot of jobs around me being exported at the moment, IT to India, Procurement to Bulgaria, Finance to China, helpdesk to the Philippines...if you can work remotely from home you job can be done from overseas ( well thats how the bean counters see it, in reality it doesn't really work).

[Ocean1]

Helps to have some skills.
I've turned up in 3 countries over my working life with no contacts and its worked out. Helps to have a trade that's in demand.
I'm familiar with the Gig Economy as did temping as a Sparky for 2-3 years in the UK, been out of work for months there too.

If you work in a field thats powered by discretionary spending expect unstable working condtions.

I'm seeing a lot of jobs around me being exported at the moment, IT to India, Procurement to Bulgaria, Finance to China, helpdesk to the Philippines...if you can work remotely from home you job can be done from overseas ( well thats how the bean counters see it, in reality it doesn't really work).

None of which is a valid argument against alternative employment models.

When you burden employers with all of the risks and costs associated with employment they can't do anything other than pass that on to the customer. If that risk, including the requirement to pay employees whether they're generating income or not, and the ever increasing compliance costs, and the ever increasing holiday pay, ACC levies etc etc stc then you eventually reach the point where the cost of supplying that service exceeds what customers are willing to pay. Customers disappear, companies disappear, jobs disappear and everything turns to shit. All because we insist that employment should be a certain shape, with associated costs customers simply won't pay for.

You can't protect people from the consequences of their own choices, it has never been the case that you didn't have to worry about your choice of career. If you don't want to compete with employees in third world countries, with third world pay, third world safety standards and third world conditions then you should probably consider that when you choose how you're going to work, rather than blame "the system" for failing to protect you from the consequences of those choices.

[Voltaire]

None of which is a valid argument against alternative employment models.

When you burden employers with all of the risks and costs associated with employment they can't do anything other than pass that on to the customer. If that risk, including the requirement to pay employees whether they're generating income or not, and the ever increasing compliance costs, and the ever increasing holiday pay, ACC levies etc etc stc then you eventually reach the point where the cost of supplying that service exceeds what customers are willing to pay. Customers disappear, companies disappear, jobs disappear and everything turns to shit. All because we insist that employment should be a certain shape, with associated costs customers simply won't pay for.

You can't protect people from the consequences of their own choices, it has never been the case that you didn't have to worry about your choice of career. If you don't want to compete with employees in third world countries, with third world pay, third world safety standards and third world conditions then you should probably consider that when you choose how you're going to work, rather than blame "the system" for failing to protect you from the consequences of those choices.

I get all that running a company stuff as I spend most of my time doing compliance, H and S, admin etc...as a mere employee.
The Company that I work for contracts to a a company that has only seen 2 good quarters in the last 8 years.
Also on the wrong end of the demographic ledger. There have been some pre Xmas Upper Management layoffs.

Could well be driving for Uber in a couple of years

Be interesting to see what happens when Uber do their IPO.

[Woodman]

I get all that running a company stuff as I spend most of my time doing compliance, H and S, admin etc...as a mere employee.
The Company that I work for contracts to a a company that has only seen 2 good quarters in the last 8 years.
Also on the wrong end of the demographic ledger. There have been some pre Xmas Upper Management layoffs.

Could well be driving for Uber in a couple of years

Be interesting to see what happens when Uber do their IPO.

The only way forward is mashmans theories. It is sorta heading that way anyway but in a painful way. And mashman , I mean this sincerely.

[Voltaire]

On the subject of yachting.

Govt Finds 40 Million for it.

Where was it, in the couch?

Cool, on top of the 98M the lovely rate payers are chipping in.

Wonder where it was when they closed the Bucket/kart track recently.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/03/2...on-for-team-nz

[Ocean1]

I get all that running a company stuff as I spend most of my time doing compliance, H and S, admin etc...as a mere employee.
The Company that I work for contracts to a a company that has only seen 2 good quarters in the last 8 years.
Also on the wrong end of the demographic ledger. There have been some pre Xmas Upper Management layoffs.

Could well be driving for Uber in a couple of years

Be interesting to see what happens when Uber do their IPO.

I don't think you really "get" running a small company until you find yourself working on your own through the holidays so you can afford to pay for your employees to have it off.

It focuses the mind wonderfully on who's got the better half of the deal I can assure you.

[mashman]

The only way forward is mashmans theories. It is sorta heading that way anyway but in a painful way. And mashman , I mean this sincerely.

It was always going to be painful. Imagine being the generation that's gonna have to tidy up the mess lol.

I don't think you really "get" running a small company until you find yourself working on your own through the holidays so you can afford to pay for your employees to have it off.

. Coz only running a small company will learn ya that experience.

[Woodman]

It was always going to be painful. Imagine being the generation that's gonna have to tidy up the mess lol.



. Coz only running a small company will learn ya that experience.

It won't be in our lifetime but things are changing. It's gonna get ugly though.

[RDJ]

You cited the Guardian as a Source

Yep. No need to read anything more. The Grauniad is reliably Stalinist. Right down to the - how many more do we need to send to the gulags? Well, get on with it then.

[mashman]

It won't be in our lifetime but things are changing. It's gonna get ugly though.

Maybe... although it may well be in the next year or two coz there's, however misguided, a feckload of people out there wanting change. Somewhat ironically, the new kids on the block want government to tell the truth about climate change and a few other things. Not sure why the current crop would do such a thing given that they haven't thus far, nor have they made noises in the direction of that which is being demanded, but anything's worth a try at this point I guess. It'll only get as ugly as people clinging on to their ignorance remain in decision making positions. Let's hope it doesn't follow the KB model

[Voltaire]

Maybe... although it may well be in the next year or two coz there's, however misguided, a feckload of people out there wanting change. Somewhat ironically, the new kids on the block want government to tell the truth about climate change and a few other things. Not sure why the current crop would do such a thing given that they haven't thus far, nor have they made noises in the direction of that which is being demanded, but anything's worth a try at this point I guess. It'll only get as ugly as people clinging on to their ignorance remain in decision making positions. Let's hope it doesn't follow the KB model

They are probably bored with the trinkets that Facebook and Apple are selling.
KB is more into exhaust wrap and brown seats.

There was an article in the Guardian saying all rich people and TDL should be sent to the Gulags, probably in response to the one in the Times saying all immigrants are lazy and we need to keep them out as they are taking hard working English peoples jobs.