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Thread: Politics 2019

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    I think every Kiwi should have to do 3 years in their own business before they get to vote.

    But I'm a cunt. Apparently.
    What...all that getting up early as your working for the Bank, IRD, suppliers and so on. Putting in long hours, finding work, doing all the work

    then coming home and doing the office work....that sort of thing?

    Then getting to the point where you really need an extra pair of hands and think.....oh bugger this someone else can put in Heat Pumps.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    What...all that getting up early as your working for the Bank, IRD, suppliers and so on. Putting in long hours, finding work, doing all the work

    then coming home and doing the office work....that sort of thing?

    Then getting to the point where you really need an extra pair of hands and think.....oh bugger this someone else can put in Heat Pumps.
    Yeah, it's always someone else. It's only when you're responsible for every aspect of your own production and your own outcomes that you can claim that your daily effort is worth your daily bread.

    Without that experience most people have no way to accurately quantify the value associated with their work, which leads a lot of people to believe they deserve shit they didn't earn. Which is always, of course shit someone else had to earn for them.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Yeah, it's always someone else. It's only when you're responsible for every aspect of your own production and your own outcomes that you can claim that your daily effort is worth your daily bread.

    Without that experience most people have no way to accurately quantify the value associated with their work, which leads a lot of people to believe they deserve shit they didn't earn. Which is always, of course shit someone else had to earn for them.
    Yeah business experience like Ex National party leader Jenny Shipley would be invaluable.
    Looks like she is finally going to have to pay up for some of her mismanagement.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110...nzeal-collapse

    Or Ruth Richardson whose law degree must have qualified her for Minister of Finance.
    Bill Birch a Surveyor, who never went past High School.
    Bill English honours degree in English literature.
    Rob Muldoon accountants Clerk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Yeah business experience like Ex National party leader Jenny Shipley would be invaluable.
    Looks like she is finally going to have to pay up for some of her mismanagement.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110...nzeal-collapse

    Or Ruth Richardson whose law degree must have qualified her for Minister of Finance.
    Bill Birch a Surveyor, who never went past High School.
    Bill English honours degree in English literature.
    Rob Muldoon accountants Clerk.
    Oh look, another misconceived opportunity to spew your anti-nat bile all over the internets.

    Leme see if I can reply in kind... If your marxist idols currently failing to deliver pretty much everything they promised are more academically tooled up than your "random sample" you've lost that argument before it starts.

    However, to refresh your somewhat selective memory, the contention is that managing an SME exposes you to the direct consequences of your performance, for better or worse, and no brave new socialist brainstorm has ever or will ever provide a better model from which to learn success.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Oh look, another misconceived opportunity to spew your anti-nat bile all over the internets.

    Leme see if I can reply in kind... If your marxist idols currently failing to deliver pretty much everything they promised are more academically tooled up than your "random sample" you've lost that argument before it starts.

    However, to refresh your somewhat selective memory, the contention is that managing an SME exposes you to the direct consequences of your performance, for better or worse, and no brave new socialist brainstorm has ever or will ever provide a better model from which to learn success.
    Sorry what did you say i was distracted By Cameron Slater declaring himself brankrupt today as well.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110...-incapacitated
    Slater is currently embroiled in a number of defamation proceedings.
    "This has led Cam to make the very difficult decision to declare bankruptcy, since he is unable to generate enough passive revenue to fund the three extremely expensive and in his opinion, vexatious, defamation actions against him.
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    You can bluster and obfuscate as much as you want but simple facts are most of the national party have no business experience or accruement
    The past National government borrowed heavily to fund tax cuts we couldn't afford
    Hypocritically, You go on continually about Broken promises by politicians but ignore nationals many more broken promises and continued financial mismanagement .
    The fact you believe a politician leads me to believe you are incapable of rational decision making in the first place.

    National is going to lose the next election unless they come up with something better than you can now. There petty politics are going to fail, that's why they are slipping in the polls.

    A Positive vision of the future might win National an election, But there current negative crap will not.
    As far to many people remember there crap from the last government they tried to make out was not an issue.
    Like housing affordability and fixing infrastructure and healthcare.
    That's without even going into what a train Wreck the National party leadership is at the moment.
    The leaders a pillock , no one likes or trusts the deputy and no one trust Judith Collins either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Sorry what did you say i was distracted ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Oh look, another misconceived opportunity to spew your anti-nat bile all over the internets.

    Leme see if I can reply in kind...
    Y'know what? I can't be fucked, you're so far short of rational discussion it's genuinely astonishing, I sincerely hope you find a cure for your obvious rampant cognitive dissonance malaise one day.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Y'know what? I can't be fucked, you're so far short of rational discussion it's genuinely astonishing, I sincerely hope you find a cure for your obvious rampant cognitive dissonance malaise one day.
    Big on rhetoric low on actual solutions or evidence to support your rhetoric, That the National party attitude for you.
    If only you were Chinese we could raise the $100,000 "donation" needed to buy you a party seat.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ing-byelection

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    Real bad day for national former PM has to stump up 6 million for financial mismanagement then Cameron Slater has to declare bankruptcy, add that to slipping in the polls so far their leader not even making double digits its been a great week for the old boys in Blue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  8. #38
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    Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment data show since 1970, National Governments have imposed 34.51 cents a litre of fuel taxes.
    Labour Governments have increased taxes by 35.47 cents a litre.
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    When asked about National's role in increasing fuel taxes, Mr Bridges pointed the finger at the current Government.
    Unfortunately for Simon The National Party's record was an increase of 59 percent, now Mr Bridges is shouting he's as purest as snow - he's not.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/natio...t-over-damages
    lol
    Is National to broke to pay the court order.
    In 2017, the High Court found the music library track "Eminem-esque," which backed one of the party's election campaign videos, substantially copied the rapper's song 'Lose Yourself'.
    The court ordered the National Party to pay $600,000 to Eight Mile Style, Eminem's music publisher, for the breach of copyright.
    National went to the Court of Appeal to challenge that and in a judgment in December, the court quashed the original damages award and ordered the party to pay $225,000 instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #39
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    NAh - that's standard lawyering at the big end.

    Get a judgement against you, apeal it and hopefully it goes more your way. They could still go to the Supreme Court for a third crack to overturn everything. But the risk is that court imposed the original fine!

    It will be paid then 'donations' to the same total will arrive quickly.

    Such is the party life.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    NAh - that's standard lawyering at the big end.

    Get a judgement against you, apeal it and hopefully it goes more your way. They could still go to the Supreme Court for a third crack to overturn everything. But the risk is that court imposed the original fine!

    It will be paid then 'donations' to the same total will arrive quickly.

    Such is the party life.
    Er Yeah.......
    Eminem lawyers take NZ National Party to Supreme Court over damages
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  11. #41
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    The announcement that the Serious Fraud Office is investigating National’s donation scandal dropped like a bomb in Parliament. After all it is not every day that the SFO announces that it is investigating a major political party. In fact this has never happened before ever.
    I wonder how far back they will go? I missed this the first time arround.
    #Note who the guy that Key claimed the donation was for, none other than Jami Lee Ross, oh dear.

    National’s electoral returns and the Donghua Liu donation
    Written By: MICKY SAVAGE - Date published: 11:22 am, February 25th, 2015

    National has been busy constructing a story around recent news concerning Donghua Liu’s donation of $25,000. The proposition is that John Key went to Donghua Liu’s place for dinner, that Liu then gave a significant donation but it was not to the party or to Liu’s BFF Maurice Williamson who found Liu a house, set up meetings with successive Immigration Ministers for him and even sacrificed his ministerial career by interfering in a police prosecution of Liu. No not to the top man John Key, not to the National Party, not to Williamson, but to a nondescript back bencher who tagged along with Key to the dinner.
    How likely is that?
    The motivation is clear. If news of a donation by Liu to National had been published the day before Williamson resigned for interfering in a police prosecution it would have been incendiary.
    In the Herald story National claimed that the donation was to the Botany Cabinet Club. This particular club has the unique feature that donations to it or at least the Liu donation do not appear to be recorded in National’s yearly return of donations. Apparently this particular cabinet club works under different rules to the rest of them.
    Jamie-Lee has now filed his return of electoral expenses. It is interesting that the Herald [may have been] given three days heads up on the story. Perhaps National saw this as a way to lead the story with its own framing in particular suggesting that the donation was to Ross and not National. The news was obviously going to break anyway as soon as Ross’s return was published.
    I have had a look through the returns. The figures are impressive. There are some unusual features:
    National spent on average $20,356 in each seat it contested. By contrast Labour spent $9,199.84. When you add in the party campaign figures ($2,558,211.53 verses $1,269,298.91) National spent twice as much on attributable expenses as Labour ($3.8 million verses $1.9 million).
    Nikki Kaye is the only person to not declare any donations. Either her local organisation is well funded or she has made a mistake which she may wish to correct.
    The total of donations declared by National candidates is $1.262 million with over 80% of this being funded from National head office.
    Talleys were a major private contributor giving $37,500 to different campaigns.
    In 26 of the 41 National held seats the only donor was head office. In the remaining 15 there was a single donor in nine of those seats with Talleys being the donor in three of those seats. So in only six seats were there more than two private donors.
    There is no sign of any Cabinet Club donations being recorded in any of the individual returns apart from in Ross’s return.
    It seems clear that cabinet club donations are collected centrally, recorded in the party’s annual return and then distributed out to the local electorates. National previously said that since Cabinet Club donations were declared everything was above board.
    And the story, at least in the way that National presents it, keeps changing. According to TV3 a couple of days ago:
    Last year Mr Key’s office denied a dinner he had with Liu was a ‘Cabinet Club’ fundraiser. But today the story changed, after pictures emerged of the Prime Minister meeting Liu at his Remuera home – a meeting that at the height of last year’s donations saga, Mr Key didn’t want to talk about.
    His office at the time said the mystery dinner wasn’t a contentious fundraiser, but today Mr Key said he knew it was a Cabinet Club dinner.
    And …
    Liu’s links to National have hurt the Government – most notably last year’s resignation by Maurice Williamson as a minister for interfering in Liu’s ongoing police case.
    At the time, Mr Key was keen to keep his distance, admitting they’d met, but wouldn’t give specifics. However Mr Key’s office later said the pair met at a National Party fundraiser.
    But today’s pictures reveal that fundraiser was actually the private dinner at Liu’s home – complete with a smiling Mr Key and National’s Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross.
    When asked last year if it was a Cabinet Club dinner, the Prime Minister’s office replied in a statement simply saying no.
    So what happened? Maybe Key employs absolutely amateurish staff who put out information without running it past the boss to make sure that it is accurate. Or maybe not.
    So Key denied last year the dinner was a Cabinet Club dinner. And his staff said it was not a contentious fundraiser the day after TV3 broke the news about cabinet clubs and on the same day that news about contentious Cabinet Club meetings for the Chinese was released. Then this year it is said to be a cabinet club fundraiser but the donation is not declared by National even though it seems that it has declared other cabinet club donations.

    The whole story is as fishy as Talley’s best products.

    And what about Simon Bridges in his own return mistakenly calling Aaron Bhatnagar “Cathedral Club”? This was an innocent mistake that happens all the time.

    Morris Willimson had to resign from Government when it was made public his interference in Police charging the National partys Secret donor.

    Not so long ago
    Republican Senator James Talent told a US Congress hearing in May that Chinese donors with links to the CCP were “buying access and influence” with major parties in New Zealand.
    Former CIA analyst Peter Mattis told the hearing that if no action was taken, NZ should be removed from the US-led Five Eyes intelligence alliance.

    I see now Today Simon Bridges is now calling for the banning of donations from overseas sources. From Jason Walls at the Herald:
    National Party leader Simon Bridges has joined the Greens and a chorus of other MPs in saying he would support a ban on foreign donations to political parties.
    This morning, he threw his weight behind any government proposals which would curb foreign influences in New Zealand and made specific mention of overseas donations.
    Odd when you consider Nationals history with these.
    These can be avoided by donating through New Zealand-registered corporate entities – such as companies, incorporated societies and trusts – which are allowed to donate regardless of whether they are owned or controlled by New Zealanders.
    For example
    Who could forget he Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry (NZ) Limited gave National a donation of $150,000 and for electoral purposes this was not from an overseas person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  12. #42
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    Its Started, Judith Collins will be Nationals next leader.

    Nationals social media is no pushing Chrusher. no mention or pictures of Simon
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...cid=spartanntp
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...cid=spartanntp
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/games/12-03...investigation/

    Why would chrusher be doing the newsfeed about climate change when she isnt the shadow minister or even spokeperson climate change. thats Todd Muller
    Nor has it seems she been threatened or assulted yet she fronts the news feed.
    Plus we have this puff piece all in the space of a few hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    The announcement that the Serious Fraud Office is investigating National’s donation scandal dropped like a bomb in Parliament. After all it is not every day that the SFO announces that it is investigating a major political party. In fact this has never happened before
    I wonder how far back they will go i missed this the first time arround note who the guy that Key claimed the Donation was to none other than Jami Lee Ross, oh dear.
    It's hard to imagine that these two sentences were written by the same person. One is in English and the other was constructed by a chimp struggling with a random word generator.

    The reason for that is that KB's Jedi master of copy and paste purloined the first one from the political blog 'The Standard' without quotation marks or attribution and the second one springs from the fetid swamp of his own imagination... plus ca change plus la meme chose.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonhed View Post
    It's hard to imagine that these two sentences were written by the same person. One is in English and the other was constructed by a chimp struggling with a random word generator.

    The reason for that is that KB's Jedi master of copy and paste purloined the first one from the political blog 'The Standard' without quotation marks or attribution and the second one springs from the fetid swamp of his own imagination... plus ca change plus la meme chose.
    I know i forgot a quotion mark and a couple of commas, that makes none of what clearly happened ever hapened at all.
    Heres a Hint if you attack the messenger, rather then the message, you are a weak, and your own opinion is feable.
    Jami Lee Ross is in a position to bring down the whole national party Including previous leader Mr Telflon John Key.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...variant=tb_v_1
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...er-donghua-liu
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/934...consent-charge
    Minister Maurice Williamson was forced to quit after he tried to intervene in a police inquiry into allegations of domestic violence against Liu's partner and her mother.
    December 2013: Liu is arrested on domestic violence charges.

    January 31, 2014: Parliament’s register of pecuniary interests which is meant to include gifts valued over $500 does not include Donghua Liu’s apparent gift of $25,000 to Jamie Lee-Ross’s election campaign. Genuine donations to an electoral campaign do not need to be declared.

    March 2014: Herald reveals Maurice Williamson lobbied ministerial colleague to give Liu citizenship against official advice and Liu’s $22,000 donation to National.

    April 30, 2014: National Party Secretary Greg Hamilton files a Party Donations Return that does not include the Donghua Liu donation of $25,000.

    May 1, 2014: Mr Williamson forced to resign as a minister after Herald investigation reveals he telephoned senior police officer about Liu’s domestic violence charges in January 2014 Prime Minister John Key said he recalled “seeing Mr Liu at various functions, including a dinner as part of a National Party fundraiser.” He does not mention that the private dinner was at Liu’s own home.

    May 10, 2014: Adam Bennett reports that Williamson had lobbied three different Immigration Ministers to relax the business migrant scheme entry requirements.

    November 2014: Mr Ross returns the $25,000 donation to Liu.

    February 2015: Electoral returns to reveal the $25,000 donation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I know i forgot a quotion mark and a couple of commas, that makes none of what clearly happened ever hapened at all.
    Heres a Hint if you attack the messenger, rather then the message, you are a weak, and your own opinion is feable.
    Definitely stick to copy and paste dude.

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