whats your thoughts on the CGT

[Jeeper]

but in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.
Its also certain you want to misrepresent the CGT which isn't law by a long shot and yet you are complaining you see it doing all these things that already happen.

Just debating pros and cons of what is recommended by the think tank. None of it is binding. Not till the legislation is tabled and passed. In the meantime we can surely, and in a civil manner, debate all aspects. This allows the society to make informed decisions come election time next year. No harm in a good debate.

[husaberg]

Just debating pros and cons of what is recommended by the think tank. None of it is binding. Not till the legislation is tabled and passed. In the meantime we can surely, and in a civil manner, debate all aspects. This allows the society to make informed decisions come election time next year. No harm in a good debate.

Really why is it you ignore this submission from the TWG

The working group has also proposed as an option axing Employer Superannuation Contribution Tax for KiwiSavers earning less than $48,000 a year, phased reductions for people earning between $48,000 to $70,000, and reducing the lowest rates of tax on KiwiSaver and other PIE (prescribed investor rate) funds.

I can give few reasons why you ignore it as you already made out it wasnt taxed.

[husaberg]

"The vast majority of the extra tax would come from the wealthiest 20 per cent of Kiwis, who own more than 80 per cent of the assets that would be newly taxed."

I'm surprise you want to talk about to be honest, it's almost as if you approve of dramatic ramping up of institutionalised theft from the most productive to buy votes from the least productive.

If you hadn't reassured me otherwise I'd think you were a radical socialist.

Poor ocean dont worry we both know you are not in the top 20% anyway.
Majority rules and the top 20% individidual votes is worth the same as the botom 80% of the peasants votes are.
Only problem is there is many more more votes in the bottom 80%.
The Top 20% dont actually pay that much higher % of their income as you would like everyone to believe either.

None of these figures, of course, includes capital gains (income made from selling assets such as houses and shares), because we don’t for the most part either tax or record those capital gains.
If we did, since those capital gains will go largely to the richest tenth, the truth about tax in New Zealand is that the rich almost certainly pay less of their income in tax than the poor do.

Odd that you two ignored this bit its almost like you are trying to misrepresent the current situation.

The working group has also proposed as an option axing Employer Superannuation Contribution Tax for KiwiSavers earning less than $48,000 a year, phased reductions for people earning between $48,000 to $70,000, and reducing the lowest rates of tax on KiwiSaver and other PIE (prescribed investor rate) funds.

But seeing as you feel so strongley about the right getting taxed to highly stand for the Act party in your local electrorate if you views are as popular and as well supported as you think you will become an MP.
Or stump up the $100,000 you need to become a National MP.

[Ocean1]

The Top 20% dont actually pay that much higher % of their income as you would like everyone to believe either.

You want to convert that to dollars paid in tax rather than % and then try to defend it?

Or are you too busy still working on the last question I asked?

[Jeeper]

Really why is it you ignore this submission from the TWG


I can give few reasons why you ignore it as you already made out it wasnt taxed.

So according to your analysis that is the only thing that is positive enough to outweigh all the negatives? To me that is not a material benefit as the negatives on the economy will be much more. Higher minimum wage with higher taxes and capital gains is not how economy is expanded.

[Swoop]

Since the lunatic tooth monster has driven away overseas property investors (and also the tourists'... those numbers are waaaay down), the best approach is to simply instigate a "no foreign land purchases" policy. Just offer the ability to lease land for a specific timeframe (20, 50 99yrs?).



I note Winnie wants farms exempted from the CGT.
The maori are wanting exemptions, well... just because.
Presumably the imaginary-friend lot will not be included, because they don't pay taxes at all.
The "poor"? Nope, they ain't paying.

Which leaves the average kiwi, slogging his/her guts out, being arse-raped once again by the tax system. Remember that those "rich pricks" will hire the best accountants and will not be paying anything.
But, the leftists' dogma will be in place for eternity, fucking over the country.

[husaberg]

So according to your analysis that is the only thing that is positive enough to outweigh all the negatives? To me that is not a material benefit as the negatives on the economy will be much more. Higher minimum wage with higher taxes and capital gains is not how economy is expanded.

Again i even highlighted the bits you already pay tax on Kiwisaver that why they use the words Axing and reduction

The working group has also proposed as an option axing Employer Superannuation Contribution Tax for KiwiSavers earning less than $48,000 a year, phased reductions for people earning between $48,000 to $70,000, and reducing the lowest rates of tax on KiwiSaver and other PIE (prescribed investor rate) funds.

You want to convert that to dollars paid in tax rather than % and then try to defend it?

No you want me too.Kiwis are taxed according to their income the more you earn the more tax you pay.
but is pretty simple maths the top 10% earn the most money and therefor pay more tax.
from memory its top 10% earn 34% of the total income.
The lower half pay a higher percentage of their income than you want people to know about ,which is why you want to talk in simple dollars.
They actually pay a far lower % of their income as tax when you take into account of their non taxed income.
Nearly every other country in the developed world has a CGT, They all seem to have not exploded.

Or are you too busy still working on the last question I asked?

Here is a hint your post contained no questions. As do the last 3 pages.

"The vast majority of the extra tax would come from the wealthiest 20 per cent of Kiwis, who own more than 80 per cent of the assets that would be newly taxed."

I'm surprise you want to talk about to be honest, it's almost as if you approve of the dramatic ramping up of institutionalised theft from the most productive to buy votes from the less productive.

If you hadn't reassured me otherwise I'd think you were a radical socialist.

Thats the third time or is it the fourth time in what two days, that you have made an accusation that is baseless.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Since the lunatic tooth monster has driven away overseas property investors (and also the tourists'... those numbers are waaaay down), the best approach is to simply instigate a "no foreign land purchases" policy. Just offer the ability to lease land for a specific timeframe (20, 50 99yrs?).



I note Winnie wants farms exempted from the CGT.
The maori are wanting exemptions, well... just because.
Presumably the imaginary-friend lot will not be included, because they don't pay taxes at all.
The "poor"? Nope, they ain't paying.

Which leaves the average kiwi, slogging his/her guts out, being arse-raped once again by the tax system. Remember that those "rich pricks" will hire the best accountants and will not be paying anything.
But, the leftists' dogma will be in place for eternity, fucking over the country.

They did sorta....

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12208681

I don't like the guy but unlike the tooth fairy and her hapless followers at least he is (appearing) to be honest and up front with his rates/taxes increases if he is elected.

[Voltaire]

Since the lunatic tooth monster has driven away overseas property investors (and also the tourists'... those numbers are waaaay down), the best approach is to simply instigate a "no foreign land purchases" policy. Just offer the ability to lease land for a specific timeframe (20, 50 99yrs?).



I note Winnie wants farms exempted from the CGT.
The maori are wanting exemptions, well... just because.
Presumably the imaginary-friend lot will not be included, because they don't pay taxes at all.
The "poor"? Nope, they ain't paying.

Which leaves the average kiwi, slogging his/her guts out, being arse-raped once again by the tax system. Remember that those "rich pricks" will hire the best accountants and will not be paying anything.
But, the leftists' dogma will be in place for eternity, fucking over the country.

China's slowdown could also have some bearing :

Jan 20, 2019 - China on Monday announced that its official economic growth came in at 6.6 percent in 2018 — the slowest pace since 1990.

Imaginary Friend's different Companies get good tax breaks and the product they sell has yet to be proven as buyers don't give any feedback.

[MarkH]

I have no problem with the concept of CGT, but I don't like how inflation is ignored. If you own a rental property for ten years and then sell it, a significant amount of value increase is due to inflation which makes it not profit, therefore you shouldn't have to pay tax on that.

Similarly, you shouldn't have to pay tax on the part of the interest that makes up for inflation. i.e. if inflation is 2% and you earn 4% interest then you have only made a profit of 2%, but the government will tax you on the 4% and take twice as much as what is fair.

I guess what I'm saying is that the government are thieving cunts.

[jasonu]

I guess what I'm saying is that the government are thieving cunts.

Tru dat Sista!!!

[Ocean1]

No you want me too.
but is pretty simple maths the top 10% earn the most money and therefor pay more tax.
from memory its top 10% earn 34% of the total income.
The lower half pay a higher percentage of their income thatn you want people to know about ,which is why you want to talk in simple dollars.
They actually pay a far lower % of their income as tax when you take into account of their non taxed income.
Nearly every other country in the developed world has a CGT, They all seem to have not exploded.

Here is a hint your post contained no questions. As do the last 3 pages.

Thats the third time or is it the fourth time in what two days, that you have made an accusation that is baseless.

Aye, more evasions, doctored stat's and refusals to acknowledge the facts, fuck off with your bullshit, you radical socialist you.

[husaberg]

Aye, more evasions, doctored stat's and refusals to acknowledge the facts, fuck off with your bullshit, you radical socialist you.

More of your baseless allegations. the stats are the stats not altered in anyway, Your problem is you just dont like what they say.
You can tell when either you or Katspam have lost an argument, as the abuse and accusations come out, as you have nothing else.

New Zealand's top tax "wedge" of 33 per cent on incomes above $70,000 is lower than all 27 other high-income nations in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, after including social security and payroll taxes which do not exist in this country.

PMG calculated that New Zealand’s overall tax wedge on incomes of US$100,000 and US$300,000 are among the three lowest in the OECD.

On the other hand, New Zealand has the world's most comprehensive goods and services tax (GST), taxing 98 per cent of all potentially taxable consumer spending compared with a developed world average of 59 per cent.
New Zealand is one of only five high-income OECD nations that do not allow any exemptions for food - a key factor in our high food prices.

"We charge less tax than any comparable country on high incomes, dividends and capital gains," he says.
"Our GST, however, is bigger than most, both as a proportion of taxes and as a proportion of the economy as a whole."
A structural shift in the tax and welfare system has been a major driver of the widening gap between rich and poor in Auckland. Suburbs whose average incomes were bunched together, mostly within 10 per cent of each other in 1986, now have average incomes that vary up to three-fold.
The top income tax rate on the rich was halved in two steps between 1986 and 1988 from 66 per cent to 33 per cent.

The 10% of top income-earning families earn 30% of the income. (Estimate from Stats NZ’s Household Economic Survey 2010)
The wealthiest 10% of New Zealand families control roughly 50-60% of the wealth (Estimates from New Zealand Institute’s The Wealth of a Nation 2004)
This group earns 30% of the income, has 50% or more of the wealth, and pays 43% of the net tax. Is that an outrage?

[FJRider]

If that's the case why are they talking about annual valuations to define the CGT payments due for businesses?

You mean Business's that buy property/items (and wait for it to increases in value ... or improve it) and then sell for a profit ... ???


Capital gain is a rise in the value of a capital asset (investment or real estate) that gives it a higher worth than the purchase price. The gain is not realized until the asset is sold. A capital gain may be short-term (one year or less) or long-term (more than one year) and must be claimed on income taxes.

Look up the definition of "Capital Gains" yourself if you doubt me ...