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Thread: whats your thoughts on the CGT

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Said the liarbor fanboi who's reply to any comment whatsoever is "BUT NASHNIL".

    Tell us again how NZ's poor pay most of the tax.
    Yet I showed you that the lower incomes pay a higher percent of their income as tax, nice attempt to change the subject btw.
    You should remember them that was when you accused me of dotoring the stats as they never matched your opinion.
    Yet they were the stats as prepared by a world renowned econmist.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Poor ocean dont worry we both know you are not in the top 20% anyway.
    Majority rules and the top 20% individual votes is worth the same as the botom 80% of the peasants votes are.
    Only problem is there is many more more votes in the bottom 80%.
    The Top 20% dont actually pay that much higher % of their income as you would like everyone to believe either.
    Attachment 341102


    Odd that you two ignored this bit its almost like you are trying to misrepresent the current situation.


    But seeing as you feel so strongley about the right getting taxed to highly stand for the Act party in your local electrorate if you views are as popular and as well supported as you think you will become an MP.
    Or stump up the $100,000 you need to become a National MP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    You want to convert that to dollars paid in tax rather than % and then try to defend it?
    Or are you too busy still working on the last question I asked?
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    No you want me too.Kiwis are taxed according to their income the more you earn the more tax you pay.
    but is pretty simple maths the top 10% earn the most money and therefor pay more tax.
    from memory its top 10% earn 34% of the total income.
    The lower half pay a higher percentage of their income than you want people to know about ,which is why you want to talk in simple dollars.
    They actually pay a far lower % of their income as tax when you take into account of their non taxed income.
    Nearly every other country in the developed world has a CGT, They all seem to have not exploded.
    Here is a hint your post contained no questions. As do the last 3 pages.
    Thats the third time or is it the fourth time in what two days, that you have made an accusation that is baseless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Aye, more evasions, doctored stat's and refusals to acknowledge the facts, fuck off with your bullshit, you radical socialist you.

    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    More of your baseless allegations. the stats are the stats not altered in anyway, Your problem is you just dont like what they say.
    You can tell when either you or Katspam have lost an argument, as the abuse and accusations come out, as you have nothing else.
    Lets have a look at some National party lies for real dotoring of the stats on Tax
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=10645956
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/...er-tax-reforms

    Only thing is its total horseshit.
    FOr instance the suggestion the top 1o per cent of households by income – will pay 49 per cent of income tax.
    Well that's hardly surprising as the top 10% of earners earn 34% of the nations income.
    Also national never ever mentions GST or income for currently exempt streams such as property.

    ill English and David Farrar spent last week telling fibs about the tax burden high-income families assume. I want to set the record straight with some details about how much the top 10% really pay

    In recent days, Bill English and David Farrar have been making a lot of inflammatory statements about how much tax is paid by high-income New Zealanders. For example:

    “The top 10 percent of households contribute over 70 percent of income tax, net of transfers—over 70 percent of income tax, net of transfers.” - English, in Parliament
    “If you take households over $120,000 then you have 17% of the households pay 97% of net income tax.” - Farrar, in the New Zealand Herald
    These statements are blatantly false.

    In this post, I demonstrate two errors that English and Farrar have made, provide corrected statistics, and comment on the substantive conclusion to be drawn from the correct figures. This post builds on excellent blogging over at The Dim-Post.

    Error #1: Addition

    In Bill English’s table, he calculates how much tax is paid by households in an income bracket, how much those same families receive in cash welfare transfers (but not any other form of private benefits), and adds them together to get a net figure.

    Families earning over $150,000 paid net $7.8 billion. English and Farrar say that is 71% of the total. But when you use the same table and add up the amounts paid by families that earn above $80,000 but below $150,000, you find that those families also contribute a further net $7.6 billion, which is also around 70% of the total net tax.

    What?! How the hell can two separate groups of families each pay 70% of the net tax?

    The way English and Farrar put together this illusion is to assume that most of the “net tax paid” by middle-income families is not actually paid into “net tax.” Instead, it is put in a separate pool – “money for paying welfare transfers to net tax recipients.” Why use only middle class net taxes for this pool? Never mind why! Only when the “money for paying welfare transfers to net tax recipients” pool is full does “net tax paid” actually start paying towards “net tax.”

    Everyone get that? Make sense?

    No. It does not make any sense. There is no good reason to do it this way. This is a stupid, nonsensical way to figure out contribution burdens.

    The list of silly conclusions that flow from their calculations is long. For example, under the English/Farrar counting rules, high-income families contribute absolutely nothing, not one cent, towards helping the needy with Working for Families payments, the DPB, or unemployment benefits. This is because their $7.8 billion goes into the “net tax” pool rather than the “paying for welfare transfers to net tax recipients” pool. That is, of course, an idiotic conclusion that is unfair to top-income earners, whose taxes do a great deal to support welfare programs.

    But it flows straight out of the English/Farrar maths.

    Consider also the chart below. The figures are directly from Bill English’s table. Each bar represents the net income tax position of New Zealand households in a $10,000 income band. Red bars represent net tax recipients; black bars represent net tax contributors. David Farrar’s claim that “If you take households over $120,000 then you have 17% of the households pay 97% of net income tax” amounts to a claim that the four bars on the right side of the chart constitute 97% of all the net tax represented by black bars.

    That is obviously silly, just by looking at the chart.



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  2. #167
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    definitely needed to crack down on house flipping, the brightline sorted that (too late mind..) but atleast its there now

    further CGT is heading dangerously into socialist territory where government corruption will affect the masses in a lot bigger ways, it's already started with the shane-jones bribe to form the coalition --- greens have lost the plot (or rather marama has, and james shaw who is competent with the green agenda seems to be allowing it to continue at their peril, eh well...)

    definitely opens up a blue/green party option and I bet someone perhaps even trademe dad's crew might push that way without the old man to get in.

    I know that the electoral commission already has their tools for the job --- it will be a fun year next year in the political sphere

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Yet I showed you that the lower incomes pay a higher percent of their income as tax, nice attempt to change the subject btw.
    You shold remeber remember them that was when you accused me of dotoring the stats as they never matched your opinion.
    Yet they were the stats as prepared by a world renowned econmist.
    No, you did not. When you can present tax paid in dollar terms then you might be taken seriously. But at that point you would have proven your own argument complete bullshit, so you won't do it. Face it, dem rich pricks pay almost all income tax, the actual numbers aren't even difficult to find, the facts just don't fit with liarbor's proposals for new "fair" taxes, so you mangle the facts to suit your socialist narrative.

    The subject, however, was Marama Davidson's anti-success spiel about "wealthy elites". But you go right ahead and ignore that and spew some more desperately twisted anti-bogyman crap, it's about all you're good for, screeds and screeds of pre-digested, incoherent and irrelevant quotes that nobody ever reads.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    No, you did not. When you can present tax paid in dollar terms then you might be taken seriously. But at that point you would have proven your own argument complete bullshit, so you won't do it. Face it, dem rich pricks pay almost all income tax, the actual numbers aren't even difficult to find, the facts just don't fit with liarbor's proposals for new "fair" taxes, so you mangle the facts to suit your socialist narrative.

    The subject, however, was Marama Davidson's anti-success spiel about "wealthy elites". But you go right ahead and ignore that and spew some more desperately twisted anti-bogyman crap, it's about all you're good for, screeds and screeds of pre-digested, incoherent and irrelevant quotes that nobody ever reads.
    You are becoming even more deluded by the post
    The subject of none of the posts i made or that you made in reply to mine was never Marama Davidson
    I posted my posts and yours its clear you have lost the ability to follow any rational conversation.

    Good luck trying to convince 80% of the population that they should pay more tax because the top few percent that are already eanring 34% of the taxed income let alone the non taxed income are to poor to afford it.
    There is a better chance of Simon bridges winning an election.
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  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    He's changed his mind?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111...hanged-my-mind

    So that's what the $1000/day bought them.
    He has no credibility whatsoever after his last stint as finance minister. Utterly retarded, so being paid a grand per (6hr) working day is bewildering.

    He fits in well with the Lunatic Fringe's marama davidson. Now there is a cunt. A retarded one at that.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    He has no credibility whatsoever after his last stint as finance minister. Utterly retarded, so being paid a grand per (6hr) working day is bewildering.

    He fits in well with the Lunatic Fringe's marama davidson. Now there is a cunt. A retarded one at that.
    Yet thats less than the average charge out rate for a lawyer.
    http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/lawtalk...ation-released
    Maybe we should compare Dr cullens credentials vs the National party finance ministers.
    Ruth Richardson whose law degree must have qualified her for Minister of Finance.
    Bill Birch a Surveyor, who never went past High School.
    Bill English honours degree in English literature.
    Rob Muldoon accountants Clerk.

    So what was it Cullen has a doctorate in again and what did he do for a living prior to becoming an MP.
    Oh thats right, he as a doctorate in Economics and was a university professor in economics.

    As for the fees national set the policy for what they are renumeration https://dpmc.govt.nz/sites/default/f.../coc-12-06.pdf
    From memory the panel charged $162,000 for the flag referendum that no one asked for or wanted.
    But fear not if you have complaints take them to Jim Bolger Chair of the fair pay working group.
    https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-an...ay-agreements/

    National borrowed to give tax cuts that we couldnt afford uped GST, and underfuneded hospitals roads etc etc etc
    We owe 20% of GDP again because National cant balance the books without borrowing.
    They spent nearly the whole 9 years in budget deficiet they couldnt even balance the books while chronically under funding practically everything and borrowing massively
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    GDP grew 1% in the September quarter. It’s the strongest growth in two years, nearly double the OECD average and rivalled only by the US.
    It was broad based – 15 out of 16 industries expanded, with only mining dropping back. The RBNZ believes GDP growth will “pick up” over 2019.

    At 3.9% unemployment is the lowest in 10 years.
    Or in the words of the Reserve Bank “employment is around its maximum sustainable level”.

    Cost of living pressures are real but the latest CPI increase of 1.9% recorded by Stats NZ is low by historic standards. Further blunting National’s grab for attention on hip pocket issues, petrol prices dropped 10 cents a litre in October.

    In the housing sector rents have been rising, as have concerns about KiwiBuild, but the dangerously hot Auckland market has cooled safely so far. ASB said this week more Kiwis believed it was a good time to buy a house than at any point in the last five years.

    Mortgage rates are almost subterranean. This week ANZ offered a one year rate of 3.95 percent, claiming it was the lowest since World War II. A time traveller with a mullet or shoulder pads might have thought a one had been mistakenly left off the front of the rate (mortgage rates were nudged 20 percent in the late 1980s).

    A deep grave has been dug for National over claims of a fiscal hole.
    A surplus of $5.5 billion is forecast and the government is on track to meet its Budget Responsibility Rules of spending at 30% of GDP and debt at 20%.

    Considering Key liked to claim responsibility for nz sinterst rates when they were higher than that Labour must be doing far far better.



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  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    You are becoming even more deluded by the post
    The subject of none of the posts i made or that you made in reply to mine was never Marama Davidson
    I posted my posts and yours its clear you have lost the ability to follow any rational conversation.

    And yet the post you quoted, and replied to was ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    No surprise really, from the outfit that campaigned on their right to defraud taxpayers.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...arama-davidson

    Grasping, deluded twats.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Attachment 341211


    GDP grew 1% in the September quarter. It’s the strongest growth in two years, nearly double the OECD average and rivalled only by the US.
    It was broad based – 15 out of 16 industries expanded, with only mining dropping back. The RBNZ believes GDP growth will “pick up” over 2019.

    At 3.9% unemployment is the lowest in 10 years.
    Or in the words of the Reserve Bank “employment is around its maximum sustainable level”.

    Cost of living pressures are real but the latest CPI increase of 1.9% recorded by Stats NZ is low by historic standards. Further blunting National’s grab for attention on hip pocket issues, petrol prices dropped 10 cents a litre in October.

    In the housing sector rents have been rising, as have concerns about KiwiBuild, but the dangerously hot Auckland market has cooled safely so far. ASB said this week more Kiwis believed it was a good time to buy a house than at any point in the last five years.

    Mortgage rates are almost subterranean. This week ANZ offered a one year rate of 3.95 percent, claiming it was the lowest since World War II. A time traveller with a mullet or shoulder pads might have thought a one had been mistakenly left off the front of the rate (mortgage rates were nudged 20 percent in the late 1980s).

    A deep grave has been dug for National over claims of a fiscal hole.
    A surplus of $5.5 billion is forecast and the government is on track to meet its Budget Responsibility Rules of spending at 30% of GDP and debt at 20%.

    Considering Key liked to claim responsability for nzsinterst rates when they were higher than that Labour must be doing far far better.

    So who's deluded? "BUT NASHNIL". You just can't help yourself, can you? Nobody needs dickheads spewing heavily spun partisan bullshit Every. Single. Post. On ignore you go.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    And yet the post you quoted, and replied to was ...





    So who's deluded? "BUT NASHNIL". You just can't help yourself, can you? Nobody needs dickheads spewing heavily spun partisan bullshit Every. Single. Post. On ignore you go.
    I replied to gasping deluded twats by posting national part memorandums as that is what everyone thought you meant. there was never any link in my post, There was never nothing in my post was ever about, what your delusional mind is trying to connect.
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    Really I am peddling spin by using facts and pointing out Nationals legacy of debt?
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    I am peddling spin by pointing out Cullen is far more qualified than anyone national has had as finance minister using their actual qualifications?
    Maybe we should compare Dr cullens credentials vs the National party finance ministers.
    Ruth Richardson whose law degree must have qualified her for Minister of Finance.
    Bill Birch a Surveyor, who never went past High School.
    Bill English honours degree in English literature.
    Rob Muldoon accountants Clerk.
    So what was it Cullen has a doctorate in again and what did he do for a living prior to becoming an MP.
    Oh thats right, he as a doctorate in Economics and was a university professor in economics.
    Is it spin pointing out the actual government financials when someone with no evidence says they are in their opinion performing poorly?
    What you are doing is trying to spin out a TWG and call it government policy when in reality you have no idea what it will be but are attempting to scaremonger up some support for your failing party and crippled leadership.
    Another bad day for national if that's the best you can do.

    Especially considering your party is under yet another investigation as police have passed some to the SFO.
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/03/1...on-allegations
    Its no wonder your lot is behind in the polls, you cant even keep up with a conversation



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  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    So what was it Cullen has a doctorate in again and what did he do for a living prior to becoming an MP.
    Oh thats right, he as a doctorate in Economics and was a university professor in economics.
    He should have stayed there. His actions were deplorable, as who empties the bank account as they leave office?
    He's still a retarded cunt.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    He should have stayed there. His actions were deplorable, as who empties the bank account as they leave office?
    He's still a retarded cunt.
    Really do you have some actual evidence or are you confusing him with what muldoon left Lange?
    or when Following the 1984 general election a constitutional crisis occurred when Muldoon refused to act on instruction of the incoming government, causing a growing currency crisis to worsen. Eventually he relented, after his position as National Party leader was threatened by members of his caucus.
    Or when they had to bail out Air NZ
    Or are you confusing it with the billions of dollars they short funded the health boards by?
    Where they didnt increase the health spending to match inflation that they underfuned the health system by each year to the extent to regain the spending power of the 2009 and pay for the initiatives and additional costs announced over that time, it would need to increase by $2.3 billion in the 2017 Budget to $17.6 billion."



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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Really do you have some actual evidence or are you confusing him with what muldoon left Lange?
    pretty sure cullen said "i spent the lot" as his arse was kicked out

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimO View Post
    pretty sure cullen said "i spent the lot" as his arse was kicked out
    Pretty sure odd that nationala first step was to cut tax then.
    Odd that Labour operated budget surpluses whilst paying off Nationals debt they incurred
    Read the graphs and show some data that says otherwise.

    Looking at recent governments, Clark's finance minister Sir Michael Cullen squirreled away savings, paying off debt and using the surplus for investment.
    On the other hand, international conditions were much less benign under the Key-English Government, so National "cannibalised" a lot of the Cullen reserves to ease us though the GFC, Easton said.
    The record showed their debt track was higher than Cullen's
    Economist Brian Easton
    Not only that the whole time National was in power they never contributed to New Zealsnd Super fund.
    The Superannuation Fund was created by the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Act 2001[8] on 11 October 2001 by Michael Cullen, who was then Minister of Finance under the Fifth Labour Government, and is colloquially known as the "Cullen Fund".

    In the 2009 New Zealand budget the National Government suspended payments to the fund. Contributions were proposed to resume in 2020/21 when the Government's net debt to GDP falls below 20% again
    The New Zealand Government had contributed $14.88b to the fund by 2012.The sovereign fund posted a record 25.8% return in the twelve months till 30 June 2013. . The Labour-led government started payments into the superfund again in December 2017.
    Labour were smart enough to make it impossible for National to raid this fund.
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  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Said the liarbor fanboi who's reply to any comment whatsoever is "BUT NASHNIL".
    In fairness they are cunts.

    Also: Jami-Lee + Soimun = Marama plus whatever other lunatics are on the good side. It all works out in the end.
    I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave

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    DId you read and understand it.
    Like where it says a tax cut leaves Basically no fiscal margin for the next five to six years.
    So even in the opinion of a National party blogger, the National tax cuts were unsustainable and unafordable.
    No where does it say they he drained money out and left them nothing.
    Which is why National borrowed to the hilt and put the country again into massive debt to splash out on tax cuts we couldn't afford that were funded out of borrowing and GST increases.
    National raised Taxes 18 times.
    Cullens figures were bang on.
    Cullen was even right to protect the superannuation fund so that wasn't pissed away as well.
    National never even contributed to it for your retirement, not only that they lowered the employer contributions for kiwisaver how it was taxed how it was incliuded in income packages.
    Employer contributions were not taxed unless it was above 4% someone changed that to 2% guess who...

    Read these NZ treasure figures and tell me what the Labour budget surplus was and what the Nations debtrs were.
    Then tell me how much money National borrowed over their term and how much labour decreased our debt by.
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