whats your thoughts on the CGT

[russd7]

I'm not concerned too much how it will affect me. I've had around a decade of intense activity that would have attracted a CGT, that activity has now tapered off & will remain somewhere down around nil for the foreseeable future, so I'm not concerned how it is going to affect me.
My concern is for the change in kiwi behaviour & lifestyle.
I can see the arse dropping out of the beach settlements & maybe a shift to large boats instead.
I also worry for people currently renting.
Landlords can't just haul money out of their arses & won't be prepared to inject some cash to top up the mortgage of a rental property out of their wages to keep the rent reasonable, as many have done in the past, in the knowledge that there is a tax free carrot waiting for them at the end, because they will now be taxed on the profit of said property.
Rents will definitely rise & while I'm sure it will turn a few tenants into home owners in the short term, the long term will be a bit grim if you aren't a home owner.
Also, for landlords that have done a monthly top up from their income over the years, there had better be an accounting system in the CGT maths that takes their input off, as that needs to come off the taxable profit, as it was taxed income before it went to propping up a tenant & isint a gain, as it was a landlord contribution.
Yes, I have done that to make sure my tenants pay market rent for a property that had decent capital gain and a fairly hefty mortgage.

ring fencing rentals will put a stop being able to claim that cost from wages, this in my view is worse than the cgt, what we know will happen is this will come in excluding the family home but once in it will be an easy adjustment to tax the family home further down the track.
rents will rise more and government rent top ups will have to increase to keep a roof over peoples heads

[pete376403]

I am not surprised as even before then there were rules relating to flipping property that never resulted in any tax being paid.
Anyone rich has a half decent accountant anyway but you do what you can within the rules that you work.
But did you see the list of countries that ddnt have a CGT they were nearly all tax haven countries.
I remember when i brought my first house the lawyer doing the conveyancing was abe to somehow date the sale so i never paid the stamp duty, Still dont know how they done it, filed it late or something i was glad. It was a fair chunk of change in those days. If you are clever you can still buy as going concerns but selll as GST exclusive, Ramp down the Curtilage or up if it suits claim off the office areas hybrid GST 6 monthly and invest it in the bank when selling and keep ther interest etc etc etc.
You will never shut all the loop holes but we can try and make it fair as just increasing GST every few years is not fair.
What we need to do is get the speculators out of NZ and stop them manipultaing our economy Remember back in the early 80's one trader, Nearly killed our Dollar he made 100's of millions for doing nothing and we paid for it all.
Can remember his name but 300,000,000 million in one day i think it was. John Key later worked for him.

Andy Krieger
It is autumn 1987, and Andrew Krieger, a trader at Bankers Trust, is watching the New Zealand dollar (NZD) in the aftermath of the 1987 stock market crash. Currencies such as the NZD (also called the “Kiwi”) are being bid up by traders fearful of holding US dollars. This leads to a short-term overvaluation of many currencies relative to the USD, but Krieger focused on the Kiwi.

New Zealand has a fairly small economy, and using options Krieger is able to ultimately short the entire money supply of New Zealand (according his book The Money Bazaar). This would have been impossible if he only used the cash market.

Other traders, and even the New Zealand government, get involved. The government asks Krieger to stop the raid, but ultimately the market agrees with Krieger. The Kiwi sells-off 5% in a single day, with intra-day fluctuations up to 10% according to some sources. Much of the decline is pinned on Krieger selling massive amounts of Kiwi dollars, yet it is also other traders acting on the information which ultimately leads to Krieger being exit his positions with a profit.

The estimated profit to Bankers Trust was $300 million…of which Krieger got a $3 million bonus. This “tiny” bonus on such a well executed trade disgusted Krieger and ultimately he left Bankers Trust, going to work for George Soros in 1988.

In 1988 Bankers Trust admitted that profits from their options trading activity was overstated by $80 million in Q4 of 1987. Therefore the profits made specifically by Krieger are drawn into question, as the many of the options that were revalued involved Kiwi dollars. Such options were fairly new, and it is possible that Krieger was much of the market in such instruments at the time, making the options hard to value.

Either way, Krieger’s position is estimated to have been $700 million to $1 billion, with profits in the range of $220 to $300 million.

Kriger may have been right in the short-term, but ultimately the NZD went way higher in 1988. A great trade not only requires a good entry, but a timely exit as well.

[husaberg]

Andy Krieger
It is autumn 1987, and Andrew Krieger, a trader at Bankers Trust, is watching the New Zealand dollar (NZD) in the aftermath of the 1987 stock market crash. Currencies such as the NZD (also called the “Kiwi”) are being bid up by traders fearful of holding US dollars. This leads to a short-term overvaluation of many currencies relative to the USD, but Krieger focused on the Kiwi.

New Zealand has a fairly small economy, and using options Krieger is able to ultimately short the entire money supply of New Zealand (according his book The Money Bazaar). This would have been impossible if he only used the cash market.

Other traders, and even the New Zealand government, get involved. The government asks Krieger to stop the raid, but ultimately the market agrees with Krieger. The Kiwi sells-off 5% in a single day, with intra-day fluctuations up to 10% according to some sources. Much of the decline is pinned on Krieger selling massive amounts of Kiwi dollars, yet it is also other traders acting on the information which ultimately leads to Krieger being exit his positions with a profit.

The estimated profit to Bankers Trust was $300 million…of which Krieger got a $3 million bonus. This “tiny” bonus on such a well executed trade disgusted Krieger and ultimately he left Bankers Trust, going to work for George Soros in 1988.

In 1988 Bankers Trust admitted that profits from their options trading activity was overstated by $80 million in Q4 of 1987. Therefore the profits made specifically by Krieger are drawn into question, as the many of the options that were revalued involved Kiwi dollars. Such options were fairly new, and it is possible that Krieger was much of the market in such instruments at the time, making the options hard to value.

Either way, Krieger’s position is estimated to have been $700 million to $1 billion, with profits in the range of $220 to $300 million.

Kriger may have been right in the short-term, but ultimately the NZD went way higher in 1988. A great trade not only requires a good entry, but a timely exit as well.

Thats him Krieger but its also a bit on the nose that the reason it droped in value was he was holding pretty much all that was traded, also remember Forex traders effectually bet on the currency going up or down, In his case he made it go down.
It was genius, yes of course it was. it is also highly dubious in respect to ethics. As its effectively insider trading, As ypu said we were a tiny new market with effectively no controls he actually could have sunk us.
The story goes a very panicked Rodger Douglas in full "corporal wilson" mode rung his boss and said stop that bugger from fucking with our market.
He claims it never happens, but i suspect it did.

[sidecar bob]

Its clear what your motives are BOB
If you are worried about a tax that not only is it not even been implemented it is only ever going to be implemented when a property is sold, and you are saying its costing you profit. the only logical conclusion is you intended selling the properties for a Profit.
There is nothing wrong with that,Selling stuff for a profit, but at least fess up to the reasons why you are pissed about it.
Why should you not have to pay tax on profit that is income when others pay tax on income, Just because you want make a living by selling property.
Its just a loop hole that should have been shut years ago.
Ps the only one around here that has mentioned screwing you is Katspam. Pretty sure he doesn't want to go around the front way.
The only reason you would have to be worried is if you put all your eggs in one basket, As long as you took the advice and spread your investments over a number of different things rather than just all in rental properties, you will be fine.

But I don't make a living off selling properties for a profit, another random guess by you telling me what my motives are & where my income comes from.
It is merely inflation proofing my money, which stuffing it under the bed doesn't do.
You also have no idea how & where I invest, so don't try to convince yourself or others that you have any idea about my finances.
I'm genuinely flummoxed why you love taxes so much. My best guess is you have fuck all of anything to tax & if anything and are a tax taker, rather than a taxpayer. That's just me making sweeping generalisations about you basesd solely on your opinions & views expressed via this forum.
Now how does that sit with you?

[husaberg]

But I don't make a living off selling properties for a profit, another random guess by you telling me what my motives are & where my income comes from.
It is merely inflation proofing my money, which stuffing it under the bed doesn't do.
You also have no idea how & where I invest, so don't try to convince yourself or others that you have any idea about my finances.
I'm genuinely flummoxed why you love taxes so much. My best guess is you have fuck all of anything to tax & if anything and are a tax taker, rather than a taxpayer. That's just me making sweeping generalisations about you basesd solely on your opinions & views expressed via this forum.
Now how does that sit with you?

Like i said why the worry if you dont intend on flipping them for a tax free profit then?
Bob you are the one who said they have multiple rentals on this forum not me.
You can try and justify my views on tax anyway you want but as we both know.
i have made pretty good some would say obsene tax free profits out of trading real estate and also at running business at a loss to minimise Tax.
As these were farms i also minimised my own off farm income tax to invest in the Business "runing at a loss and being developed " and had many of my living cost subsidized by the business.
These are all legal practices, likely many of the same used by you as well, These are not available to people who are not in business.
You and ocean go on about tax being for handouts to lazy bludgers but kick up a massive stink if you non taxed perks are put in jeopardy.

[sidecar bob]

Like i said why the worry if you dont intend on flipping them for a tax free profit then.
Bob you are the one who said they have multiple rentals on this forum not me.
You can try and justify my views on tax anyway you want but as we both know.
i have made pretty good tax free money out of trading real estate and also at running business at a loss to minimise Tax.

"Flipping" is a bit over the top in my case, is five years plus & still no thought of selling your idea of flipping?
If you go back & read the first post I put in this thread you will see it doesn't bother me, but if the govt wants to take away my reward, I will have to get that reward from somewhere else, my tenants.
If the government move their goalposts, then it's only fair that I'm allowed to move mine too, and I will.
No problem, they do what they believe they need to, & I do what I need to do in return.

[husaberg]

"Flipping" is a bit over the top in my case, is five years plus & still no thought of selling your idea of flipping?
If you go back & read the first post I put in this thread you will see it doesn't bother me, but if the govt wants to take away my reward, I will have to get that reward from somewhere else, my tenants.

Bob you keep saying it doesnt worry you but your posts indicate it worries you a lot.
The goverment has not implemented any rules if they do in the future it will be to make sure income is taxed fairly what ever its source be it from wages, shares, interest or realized capital gains on assets.

[Ocean1]

it will be to make sure income is taxed fairly

And that, ladies is the biggest lie you'll ever hear, and the daily repetition from the Marxist branch of the Peters coalition doesn't make it any less of a lie.

By all means let's do fair. That would start with everyone contributing the same dollar amount and being eligible for the same benefits, that's fair.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Well no, I have a beautiful family home & have no desire to occupy my rental property.
It's just that the last incentive I had to give my tenants a subsidised by me, sharp as deal using my tax paid disposable income (which I should have spent on a Porsche for me, rather than housing for a family I barely know) is about to disappear. I'm not in it to be Santa Claus, so it's user pays now I guess.
Don't try to tell me what my motives are.
If they're talking about screwing me over I'd rather be on the front foot when it happens. Game on.

The important question I think is, What Porsche model?

Classic 911, Mentalist 911 Turbo, left field 356?

[HenryDorsetCase]

By all means let's do fair. That would start with everyone contributing the same dollar amount and being eligible for the same benefits, that's fair.

Wait, I thought you were against communism?

[sidecar bob]

Bob you keep saying it doesnt worry you but your posts indicate it worries you a lot.
.

Yes, it worries me that the country I was born in is being run by idiots & is turning to shit.
If they hadn't prevented further oil exploration then further taxes wouldn't be required.
Have a read of this. Even if you only get to page two.
It was written ten years ago.
https://www.nzae.org.nz/wp-content/u...ew_Zealand.pdf

[sidecar bob]

The important question I think is, What Porsche model?

Classic 911, Mentalist 911 Turbo, left field 356?

I'm thinking 997 Turbo

[husaberg]

And that, ladies is the biggest lie you'll ever hear, and the daily repetition from the Marxist branch of the Peters coalition doesn't make it any less of a lie.

By all means let's do fair. That would start with everyone contributing the same dollar amount and being eligible for the same benefits, that's fair.

Isnt it funny you always go socialist, maxist, Communist.
You go on about this crap when you have MMP and a center left and a center right party its just plain ludicrous.
You are not in the majority last election , likely not the next election either. Get over it.

Yes, it worries me that the country I was born in is being run by idiots & is turning to shit.
If they hadn't prevented further oil exploration then further taxes wouldn't be required.
Have a read of this. Even if you only get to page two.
It was written ten years ago.
https://www.nzae.org.nz/wp-content/u...ew_Zealand.pdf

If it worries you immigrate to the right wing republic of the USA run by a rather orange tub thumping right wing self made business man.

National tried to close the property loophole no issues from you them Labour talks about doing the same thing all of a sudden its war.
Like i said nearly every other country in the developed world has a CGT. Get over it or move to Panama or the caymen islands Jersey or Monaco.

Wait, I thought you were against communism?

He likes putin and i understand he likes old Elton John songs as well.

Although we all know his red rolla is really a brown Triumph 2000

[jasonu]

I'm genuinely flummoxed why you love taxes so much. ?

That one has got me too. I've never seen a regular Joe like the prospect of new taxes and defend them as he does.

[jasonu]

it will be to make sure income is taxed fairly

That's a fucking good one!!!