"Kiwi jihadi" feels "stabbed in the back"...

[carbonhed]

If you want to help the support services....

https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/chri...g-victims-fund

[F5 Dave]

Obviously I feel sick to the core and have been absent. Religious hate is often a thin veil of racial hate.

Fuck to Hell any cunts who spread this shit message.

[TheDemonLord]

Regardless of nationality, ethnicity or religion involved, mass murder is
morally wrong.

So, No. I don't intend reading his "manifesto", or even trying to mentally
rebut his supposed "arguments".

No one is saying Mass Murder isn't wrong.

However, upon Reflection, I believe he is achieving his objective more completely than first thought. He explicitly states he wants to cause division, he wants to pit the Left against the Right. Everything about his actions are in line with wanting to light a fuse, in order to burn everything down.

And so far, our Politicians, our Media and Us (Myself included in that statement) are doing our level best to prove him right - We are all pointing to our Worldviews and pointing towards our opponents Worldviews and linking his actions in a manner the supports what we believe.

In this sense, he is winning.

And I cannot allow that to be the case - so for once, I'm not going to argue about this - because that is precisely what he wants, and I refuse to let him win.

I'm going to ask - that whatever your opinion of me is, that you consider what his ultimate goal was (to instigate society to tear itself apart) and you guide your actions, just as I am guiding mine.

[oldrider]

No one is saying Mass Murder isn't wrong.

However, upon Reflection, I believe he is achieving his objective more completely than first thought. He explicitly states he wants to cause division, he wants to pit the Left against the Right. Everything about his actions are in line with wanting to light a fuse, in order to burn everything down.

And so far, our Politicians, our Media and Us (Myself included in that statement) are doing our level best to prove him right - We are all pointing to our Worldviews and pointing towards our opponents Worldviews and linking his actions in a manner the supports what we believe.

In this sense, he is winning.

And I cannot allow that to be the case - so for once, I'm not going to argue about this - because that is precisely what he wants, and I refuse to let him win.

I'm going to ask - that whatever your opinion of me is, that you consider what his ultimate goal was (to instigate society to tear itself apart) and you guide your actions, just as I am guiding mine.

Anders Breivik Sweden? - Similar? .... I have not looked but his name lit up when I read of this crisis in Christchurch.

[FJRider]

... I believe he is achieving his objective more completely than first thought. He explicitly states he wants to cause division, he wants to pit the Left against the Right. Everything about his actions are in line with wanting to light a fuse, in order to burn everything down.

... And so far, our Politicians, our Media and Us (Myself included in that statement) are doing our level best to prove him right

You mean doing their level best (in your opinion) to prove YOU right ...

He was a sicko that wanted to kill as many Muslims as he could ... and his name would go down in history. In this regard he succeeded.

At worst (in his mind perhaps) he'd die by cop. Suicide by cop. In this regard ... he failed.

Don't give him any credit as none is due to him.

[Viking01]

No one is saying Mass Murder isn't wrong.

.....

I'm going to ask - that whatever your opinion of me is, that you consider what his ultimate goal was (to instigate society to tear itself apart) and you guide your actions, just as I am guiding mine.

DL,

Morning. I read and (think) I understand the points you're making.

But in this case, I don't feel I need to consider my world view
(or his). For me, it's simple.

It was simply an act of unprovoked mass violence. It wouldn't have
mattered whether the victims were Muslim, Christian or Jewish etc.
So I go back to my original post.

I'm glad that you having read his "manifesto", your personal values
(moral compass) were strong enough to categorically reject what
he supposedly stood for (or was trying to achieve).

But in respect to recommending others reading his "manifesto", I
thought that OddDuck made some good points worth considering
(post #222, page 15) .

My 2c worth.

Cheers,
Viking

[pritch]

He was a sicko that wanted to kill as many Muslims as he could ... and his name would go down in history. In this regard he succeeded.

Some time ago I decided to try and avoid learning the names of these people. I've had some success in this regard but our witless news media will make that difficult this time.

On reflection I may be a bit hard on our news media, they are undoubtedly stupid but probably no more so than those of Australia, Britain or the US.

[husaberg]

It was simply an act of unprovoked mass violence. It wouldn't have
mattered whether the victims were Muslim, Christian or Jewish etc.
So I go back to my original post.

I'm glad that you having read his "manifesto", your personal values
(moral compass) were strong enough to categorically reject what
he supposedly stood for (or was trying to achieve).
Viking

Unfortunately i sincerely doubt he does object to whats in this nutters manefesto only likely the means to which he carried out.

A We've not done anything, there's been no pogroms, no Mosques have been burned down, no lynchings - so Pray tell Husa, exactly how is it that My reaction is requires that the Government protection
The EDL was started in 2009, since the rise of the EDL,- and low and behold! There's a reason why a whole bunch of working class people are seriously fucked off at Islam.
In a way that they aren't fucked off at say Sikhism or Buddhism or Judaism.

Cause it's not like Islam has a record of murdering people that critique their religion or their Prophet - do I need to bring up Charlie Hebdo?
You are putting the Cart before the Horse: It's because of their middle eastern descent and values that they committed the crimes they did, It's the values that Tommy is objecting to.
You're trying to setup a false equivalence - There's a very key difference between the Catholic Church offences and these offences:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/several-casualties-reported-after-van-hits-pedestrians-in-north-london

One dead and 11 injured after van ploughs into Muslim worshippers in Finsbury Park in fourth UK attack in past three months

I remember that well ....- someone finally got pissed off at the police inaction and decided to go vigilante - ......it isn't like it's without it's reason.

I've watched Tommy's Oxford Union address - I'd suggest that for ANYONE who is interested in this subject, to listen to that first. I've watched instances of Tommy's activism and then read the reports on it - at best it's a very bad misrepresentation, at worst I've seen reports on him be flat-out lies.
#Freetommy

Now - I've listened to a fair bit of Tommy, He's a working class lad and his word choice can be called careless at times. This does not make him a Racist. I've yet to hear Tommy say something expressly racist.

Tommy Robinson.
islam is not a religion of peace. Islam is fascist and it's violent and we've had enough! They're chopping our soldiers' heads off. This is Islam. That's what we've seen today. They've cut off one of our army's heads off on the streets of London. Our next generation are being taught through schools that Islam is a religion of peace. It's not. It never has been. What you saw today is Islam. Everyone's had enough. There has to be a reaction, for the government to listen, for the police to listen, to understand how angry this British public are.

“I’d personally send every adult male Muslim that has come into the EU over the past 12 months back tomorrow if I could. Fake refugees,” he tweeted in early 2016
Every single Muslim watching this… on 7/7 you got away with killing and maiming British citizens… you had better understand that we have built a network from one end of the country to the other end… and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our British citizens killed, maimed, or hurt on British soil ever again.
” Robinson held aloft a copy of the Koran, ” Robinson told Morgan, “This book is the reason we are in such a mess,”
Robinson was questioned on why. He said: “To be honest with you, I don’t care if it incites fear [against Muslims]

“Now we understand that this is not a game, terrorism doesn’t choose its victims selectively, that we are one community and everything we say to try and tear people apart, demonize particular groups, set them against each other — that all has consequences, even if we’re not the ones with our fingers on the trigger.”

[Viking01]

Unfortunately i sincerely doubt he does object to whats in this nutters manefesto only likely the means to which he carried out.

I've said my piece already. You two gentlemen feel free to continue to debate
the subject (and others) between the two of you.

Cheers,
Viking

[FJRider]

Some time ago I decided to try and avoid learning the names of these people. I've had some success in this regard but our witless news media will make that difficult this time.

On reflection I may be a bit hard on our news media, they are undoubtedly stupid but probably no more so than those of Australia, Britain or the US.

I'm lousy with names. I put it down to old age. And when it involves people I'll probably never see again ... I lack enthusiasm to learn and remember their names. Some names however ... do stick in my memory for various reasons. Some good reasons ... some not so. And I'm not making an effort to change that.

The various news media ARE trying to get ALL the "facts" ... their (future) reputation (and job prospects) relies on it. All them trying to come up with a different angle/slant on things. Dig a big enough hole and you may hit pay-dirt. So ... they keep digging ... and there'll be still plenty of digging still to do. An interview with his high school form teacher is on the cards ... bound to be enlightening ...

[MD]

Ignoring it won’t make it go away

Changing your avatar would be a step in the right direction.

Pointing a gun in our faces was bad taste long before the Christchurch shootings. Now it's outright disgusting.
Does waving a gun around make you feel tough? superior? righteous?

It comes across more like these; coward; dipshit, wanker.

[jasonu]

Changing your avatar would be a step in the right direction.

Pointing a gun in our faces was bad taste long before the Christchurch shootings. Now it's outright disgusting.
Does waving a gun around make you feel tough? superior? righteous?

It comes across more like these; coward; dipshit, wanker.

A little precious aren't we???

Poofter.

[husaberg]

Changing your avatar would be a step in the right direction.

Pointing a gun in our faces was bad taste long before the Christchurch shootings. Now it's outright disgusting.
Does waving a gun around make you feel tough? superior? righteous?

It comes across more like these; coward; dipshit, wanker.

A little precious aren't we???

Poofter.

How about we concentrate on the ways to prevent this.
I dont see putting armed guards at mosques being a long term solution.
Nor do i see a need for military caliber and style semi auto weapons here in NZ.
As the last people to invade NZ was actually us.
There needs to be some better systems developed to look into ways of identifying these kind of nutters and prevent them from easily obtaining weapons and support.

[sidecar bob]

Worth a watch regardless of which country were talking about.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

[carbonhed]

How about we concentrate on the ways to prevent this.
I dont see putting armed guards at mosques being a long term solution.
Nor do i see a need for military caliber and style semi auto weapons here in NZ.
As the last people to invade NZ was actually us.
There needs to be some better systems developed to look into ways of identifying these kind of nutters and prevent them from easily obtaining weapons and support.

Well I don't know shit about guns but it would seem to me that big magazines are a really bad idea in the civilian arena. As soon as he was caught reloading he was off like the
five foot chickenshit arsehole with a microscopic dick that he really was.