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Thread: Electric

  1. #1
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    Electric

    It's happening - out with the internal combustion in with electric.

    I read today Audi are set to introduce something like 20 electric or electric assisted vehicles in the next year or two.

    Ducati has plans for electric soon (by by boom boom), Harley of all makers are pushing one out very soon (no more potato potato).

    The public perception is they are 'good' for the earth - zero emission and all that shit.

    The majority of New Zealands harmful emissions are from animal farts.

    It still rapes the earth of precious metals and produces toxic wastes making a electric vehicle.

    Is this progress or marketing?

  2. #2
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    Was browsing electric pushbikes today, noticed that everything made by Giant is proudly touted as having Yamaha motor. Yamaha? What's going on here then?

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    I think you meant belch not fart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    It's happening - out with the internal combustion in with electric.

    I read today Audi are set to introduce something like 20 electric or electric assisted vehicles in the next year or two.

    Ducati has plans for electric soon (by by boom boom), Harley of all makers are pushing one out very soon (no more potato potato).

    The public perception is they are 'good' for the earth - zero emission and all that shit.

    The majority of New Zealands harmful emissions are from animal farts.

    It still rapes the earth of precious metals and produces toxic wastes making a electric vehicle.

    Is this progress or marketing?
    Not to mention the amount of old cars we will have to dispose of....does that include heavy transport, trains and planes?
    Only a Rat can win a Rat Race!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I think you meant belch not fart.
    I'm unsure which end. Highly likely both.

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    Cows mainly produce methane, relatively short-lived in the atmosphere - CO2 is the opposite, stays in the atmosphere for a LONG time.

    My biggest problem with electric motorcycles is the range (I'm happy with MOAR TORQUES!). I no longer use my motorcycle to commute (I'm using a Nissan Leaf that works out around $2.5k per year cheaper than the bike to run). I mainly use my motorcycle for touring (it is an adventure tourer, so it is designed for touring) and stopping to charge every 100km is not going to cut it for my next SI trip.

    Before anyone says "but the range is now over 150km on some electric bikes" - not if we are looking at 100kph or more and fast charging to 80% (the charge rate drops off above 80% and it would take a LONG time to get to 100% charge). If you can realistically go for 100km on a charge, but there is a charger at 70km (and none at 90-100km) - you will end up having to make a stop where the charger is. So you charge up, then 70km later you realise that you had better stop to charge again because you can't make it to the next charger. When I returned from Invercargill (Burt Munro Rally) this year, I got back to the Waikato in 3 days, I hate to think of how much longer it would have taken on an electric bike.

    Maybe in another decade or so there will be enough improvements in battery tech to make motorcycles with a lot more range (over 400km between charges would be very nice), but until then I'll need to stick with burning fossil fuels. At least in the meantime I'm burning around 1,000 litres per year less due to commuting by EV (and saving a bunch on servicing & maintenance).
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    Just got back from 3 weeks in China. In Shanghai, every scooter is electric and there are pedal-assist electric bikes everywhere. Not quite so pronounced in the provincial cities but still a big percentage. In Hong Kong, they still love their expensive I/C - engined cars but of the top end vehicles, Teslas had a noticeably strong presence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Just got back from 3 weeks in China. In Shanghai, every scooter is electric and there are pedal-assist electric bikes everywhere. Not quite so pronounced in the provincial cities but still a big percentage. In Hong Kong, they still love their expensive I/C - engined cars but of the top end vehicles, Teslas had a noticeably strong presence.
    Begs the question - how do they generate all the extra (green?) mains power for charging all these electric vehicles that are saving the planet?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrider View Post
    Begs the question - how do they generate all the extra (green?) mains power for charging all these electric vehicles that are saving the planet?
    Good question so I did some Googling. 66% of Chinas electric power is generated by coal. Burning the stuff no doubt ........ guess they don't have a Green Party in a Government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrider View Post
    Begs the question - how do they generate all the extra (green?) mains power for charging all these electric vehicles that are saving the planet?
    China is using a naturally renewable resource ( takes a bit of time) called coal.

    I was in a discussion with an Au colleague last year about power savings and pointed out that NZ was over 80% renewable and AU was run

    on coal. He disputed it but turns out they are only about 10% renewable.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

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    Oh the maths of it all... No Soil & Water Before 100% Renewable Energy

    Earth Overshoot stands at 1.7 sustainable planets each year for a reason. Greenwashing... Propaganda for renewables: a critique of a report by Oil Change International

    Questioning the viability of a circular economy... Not so renewables
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkH View Post
    Cows mainly produce methane, relatively short-lived in the atmosphere - CO2 is the opposite, stays in the atmosphere for a LONG time.
    "The most effective sink of atmospheric methane is the hydroxyl radical in the troposphere, or the lowest portion of Earth's atmosphere. As methane rises into the air, it reacts with the hydroxyl radical to create water vapor and carbon dioxide."

    Methane not so short-lived given that when it gives up its bonds, well...........
    Last edited by mashman; 16th June 2019 at 10:41. Reason: linky
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrider View Post
    Begs the question - how do they generate all the extra (green?) mains power for charging all these electric vehicles that are saving the planet?
    Progressively switching away from coal. The Three Gorges dam now supplies 10% of China's energy needs and there are further hydro and wind power projects in the pipeline. I think I read that they only have 3 nuclear plants. The Three Gorges Dam project is staggering. I'll put some photos of it on my blog sometime in the next week. We encountered some noticeable airborne pollution around Wuhan which is an industrial centre as well as having a massive coal-fired power station but in most of the cities, any haze seemed to be heat and humidity-related whilst we were there.

    Doing nett energy consumption during manufacture and lifetime use between EV's and I/C engined vehicles is pretty complex. Made even more difficult with fairly rapid improvements in battery technology and cost.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    It's happening - out with the internal combustion in with electric.

    I read today Audi are set to introduce something like 20 electric or electric assisted vehicles in the next year or two.

    Ducati has plans for electric soon (by by boom boom), Harley of all makers are pushing one out very soon (no more potato potato).

    The public perception is they are 'good' for the earth - zero emission and all that shit.

    The majority of New Zealands harmful emissions are from animal farts.

    It still rapes the earth of precious metals and produces toxic wastes making a electric vehicle.

    Is this progress or marketing?
    we simply don't have tha ability to supply power to them if they become widespread. avergae house power supply, 63amps, cooking is 32 amps so half that, additioanlly the wires up and down the street aren't big enough either.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    we simply don't have tha ability to supply power to them if they become widespread. avergae house power supply, 63amps, cooking is 32 amps so half that, additioanlly the wires up and down the street aren't big enough either.
    This is a good point. I have also wondered about the lack of reliability of our national system. I'm 54 and recall many winters of power rationing when demand outstrip supply. Thy usually blame the weather - not enough snow melt in the Southern Alps this year or the likes but what's been done to increase reliable capacity?

    Mind you if they shut down the southern smelter and send that power to the rest of NZ we will probably be fine China getting cheap NZ power from NZ .......

    If we had a massive electric vehicle uptake over a short period can we supply reliable power to run those vehicles? Which may be one reason the Governments is not supporting funding subsidies of electric vehicles.

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