Are Brexit and Trump the biggest ever embarrasments!

[sugilite:Me]

I'm sure the American people will greatly benefit from a good ole bout of personal vindictive revenge from "their" president

[Bonez]

I think Americfam people are smarter then some folk give them credit for.

[TheDemonLord]

Seems a bit unbalanced, why would you not lament the ones that continue to play the game, even add new levels of shiftiness as well? Why do those ones get a free pass in the Demonlord World?

In a phrase: "Be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it"

This comes back to the cultural Schism that stared to split around 2006 - namely when we started to see the rise of the beginnings of 'Woke Culture' and 'SJWs' or to put it broadly - the radical part of the Left wing.

There were people who warned against such ideas - they were ignored, belittled, called every *ist under the sun. Eventually with enough Twitter outrage and Clicktivism - they got their way - they got Identity Politics as a legitimate philosophy into the Mainstream, now they could build the perfect world, where everyone would be equal and...

Except that isn't what happened: People on the right and then the moderates who didn't want socialism more than they didn't want Trump looked at it and reasoned 'So that's how you want to play the game eh? Fine, I'll play it and I'll win' - and now those same people that were gleefully rubbing their hands at the new utopia that they were going to create, with them as the effective dictators are wailing and gnashing their teeth that now they aren't the ones at the helm, it's all terrible.

Yes - you are goddamn right I don't lament it.

Maybe because I have a certain character streak that allows me to revel in this, maybe it's because I like to see it when Bullys get their comeuppance - even if it's at the hands of a bigger bully. Maybe the euphoria of a certain kind of Vindication is addicive.

It is not like Trump is ever going to say "Yay, I won the game, they lost. So now I'm going to do a big reset and do things properly from now on". He will just continue to do things in a never ending degrading way for the constitution until he is gone.

I want to make this clear - that this entire argument is using the terms you've set out. I actually don't think that Trump is engaging in the same sort of game myself, although to be clear I do believe that what he is doing is winning against the Democrats - by forcing them to show their hand.

If only there was a strong charismatic leader with honest values. Guess the system squashes them before they ever get anywhere near the presidency.

System? No. Radical Left Wing Activists who make up the Party functionaries, also the majority of the Media, Hollywood, Big-Tech etc. etc. Industries

Just look at what they are doing to Thulsi Gabbard. A Democrat I could almost vote for.

I'll say what I've said umpteen times before - The only solution here is for the Left wing to cast out all the Marxists, Socialists and Communists from their Party Ranks - tell them to fuck off and form their own Party. From there they need to move significantly back to the centre. Appeal to the traditional blue-collar left-wing voter base.

This is not to say that they have to abandon things like: Environmental Policy, Firearm Policy, Healthcare Policy etc. etc. or any of the other current left-wing talking points - these can be done from a position of Moderation, Stop with the Identity Politics, stop calling your opponents names for when they raise difficult or contentious issues.

It's the same in the UK as the US. If you don't want Trump, get rid of Bernie and Hilary. If you don't want Boris, get rid of Corbyn and Momentum.

But they won't - and that is perhaps the most important part - they are the architects of their own downfall, and I'm here bathing in the resultant fallout.

[oldrider]

393-5: House passed Never Again Education Act - - https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/stat...rymakow.com%2F - What's wrong here? - 393 to 5? - Bought and paid for? - Embarrassing isn't it? -

[mashman]

If only there was a strong charismatic leader with honest values. Guess the system squashes them before they ever get anywhere near the presidency.

The party and its politics squashes them. No One is bigger than the party... and therein lies A rather large problem regarding values, coz when you rotate in you have to try to implement policy that you never had a hand in creating as well as conforming to values that you may not fully hold. The system has its say after the electorate have had theirs, but sure, blame the system

[sugilite:Me]

I think Americfam people are smarter then some folk give them credit for.

I lived there for 1.5 years, 2018/2019. My wife is American. They are just like any race of people, there are smart people, dumb people, and a fair few ignorant people - like anywhere else.
We will see where the dumb ones that think they are smart (I.e his base) end up, when Trump gives them the replacement for Obama care in 2021. I'm sure he won't give those nice caring souls at big pharma and big insurance exactly what they want would he? He will protect the "little people" he so dearly cares about.

In a phrase: "Be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it"

This comes back to the cultural Schism that stared to split around 2006 - namely when we started to see the rise of the beginnings of 'Woke Culture' and 'SJWs' or to put it broadly - the radical part of the Left wing.

There were people who warned against such ideas - they were ignored, belittled, called every *ist under the sun. Eventually with enough Twitter outrage and Clicktivism - they got their way - they got Identity Politics as a legitimate philosophy into the Mainstream, now they could build the perfect world, where everyone would be equal and...

Except that isn't what happened: People on the right and then the moderates who didn't want socialism more than they didn't want Trump looked at it and reasoned 'So that's how you want to play the game eh? Fine, I'll play it and I'll win' - and now those same people that were gleefully rubbing their hands at the new utopia that they were going to create, with them as the effective dictators are wailing and gnashing their teeth that now they aren't the ones at the helm, it's all terrible.

Yes - you are goddamn right I don't lament it.

Maybe because I have a certain character streak that allows me to revel in this, maybe it's because I like to see it when Bullys get their comeuppance - even if it's at the hands of a bigger bully. Maybe the euphoria of a certain kind of Vindication is addicive.

To my way of thinking is a bigger bully brings even bigger problems. I would say your character streak borders on a severe lack of empathy for the everyday people these Trump tantrum driven policies will ultimately hurt. Serve the bloody people you supposedly ran to serve - fuckers. But hey, keep enjoying the mayhem by all means, as is your right.

I want to make this clear - that this entire argument is using the terms you've set out. I actually don't think that Trump is engaging in the same sort of game myself, although to be clear I do believe that what he is doing is winning against the Democrats - by forcing them to show their hand.

I just love Kiwibiker, what you just made clear is that you don't actually believe what you said earlier, and this is what you actually believe

System? No. Radical Left Wing Activists who make up the Party functionaries, also the majority of the Media, Hollywood, Big-Tech etc. etc. Industries

Just look at what they are doing to Thulsi Gabbard. A Democrat I could almost vote for.

I'll say what I've said umpteen times before - The only solution here is for the Left wing to cast out all the Marxists, Socialists and Communists from their Party Ranks - tell them to fuck off and form their own Party. From there they need to move significantly back to the centre. Appeal to the traditional blue-collar left-wing voter base.

This is not to say that they have to abandon things like: Environmental Policy, Firearm Policy, Healthcare Policy etc. etc. or any of the other current left-wing talking points - these can be done from a position of Moderation, Stop with the Identity Politics, stop calling your opponents names for when they raise difficult or contentious issues.

Ummm, ok, well after the items you mention that don't get excluded, what are the items these dastardly commies seemingly found under every democrats bed actually want to get through?
Don't get me wrong, I understand to a point where your hatred and contempt comes from. I too roll my eyes as seemingly every new tv series has token black, Asian, muslum, Indian IT guy, LGBT of every flavor in seemingly every new tv series. I'm bloody sure it is more the huge pharmaceutical companies, Big Oil, big just about everything else that has the real power moves in US politics.

The party and its politics squashes them. No One is bigger than the party... and therein lies A rather large problem regarding values, coz when you rotate in you have to try to implement policy that you never had a hand in creating as well as conforming to values that you may not fully hold. The system has its say after the electorate have had theirs, but sure, blame the system

Yes, sure, it is often their own party who crushes their soul, was not really suggesting the other side did that. I really see little difference between Republicans and Democrats, or National and Labor for that matter. They are part of the same system. Poor keen little poly emerges from their cocoon, thinking they can make a difference and the sun will shine for everyone! Nek minute, they either wither and die, or say fuck it, can't beat them so join them.

[mashman]

Yes, sure, it is often their own party who crushes their soul, was not really suggesting the other side did that. I really see little difference between Republicans and Democrats, or National and Labor for that matter. They are part of the same system. Poor keen little poly emerges from their cocoon, thinking they can make a difference and the sun will shine for everyone! Nek minute, they either wither and die, or say fuck it, can't beat them so join them.

Didn't think you were suggesting the other side could achieve such a thing. Yeah similar here. Wings of the same bird springs to mind. Somewhat ironically it's the electorate that make the difference as to what the system throws up in terms of outcomes. After all, "we" have to choose "our" masters in order to get them and their ways, and "we" do. I'll probably be standing this year... just need to figure out in what capacity. Mebees I'll get to join 'em .

[TheDemonLord]

To my way of thinking is a bigger bully brings even bigger problems. I would say your character streak borders on a severe lack of empathy for the everyday people these Trump tantrum driven policies will ultimately hurt. Serve the bloody people you supposedly ran to serve - fuckers. But hey, keep enjoying the mayhem by all means, as is your right.

It's true I have a lack of Empathy, but that is reserved only for those who worked to craft a weapon capable of defeating their enemies, ignoring the dire warnings for doing so, only for it to be tuned upon them.

I just love Kiwibiker, what you just made clear is that you don't actually believe what you said earlier, and this is what you actually believe

I've never been shy about acknowledging that I both love to argue and that not everything I say is 100% serious. To clarify though - I do believe the statements I made about those getting what they wished for (just not in the manner they expected) - The bit I don't believe (but I think it's fair to say that you do) is that Trump plays the same Identity Politics game. Thus I made the argument accepting your point of view, because it's easier to highlight the bit I do believe. As for what I believe on Trump:

He's certainly playing an antagonistic game and (as I've often stated) I think he might be a little more cognizant of what he's doing than he wants to let on.

There is a question to be asked that if there wasn't the constant assaults from all sides against him (justified or fabricated - your choice), whether or not he'd approach his Presidency differently. Maybe, but I suspect not.

Ummm, ok, well after the items you mention that don't get excluded, what are the items these dastardly commies seemingly found under every democrats bed actually want to get through?

They want Communism. That in of itself should be bad enough given the historical record.

But if we go deeper - they want the complete destruction of everything that we have built in the west, under the foolhardy and mistaken guise that they could rebuild the ashes into Utopia.

Don't get me wrong, I understand to a point where your hatred and contempt comes from. I too roll my eyes as seemingly every new tv series has token black, Asian, muslum, Indian IT guy, LGBT of every flavor in seemingly every new tv series. I'm bloody sure it is more the huge pharmaceutical companies, Big Oil, big just about everything else that has the real power moves in US politics.

Hatred is a strong word - When it comes to the Eyerolling - it's not because of these characters existence - it's because they are token, transparent and all-too-often Badly written.

Their sole defining character trait IS their protected Characteristic. I think Morgan Freeman said it best "I don't know how to wake up as a Black Man, I only know how to wake up as me". I want well written characters, with depth, flaws, character arcs etc. I don't want people included for the sake of inclusion - I want them included because they add something deep and meaningful to whatever story is being told, I want them included in a manner that is realistic or at least realistic given the setting in which the story is told.

As an example - I remember a TVNZ show aaaages ago doing a modern re-telling of Maori legends - There was one that was a good story, about a Tribal Chief, whose business wasn't doing well, called on a Taniwha to beset his competition, The Taniwha agrees, and upholds his(?) end of the bargain, but asks a high price, the conclusion is that the Chief realises his own faults, must face his actions and rekindle his self-belief and reclaim his Mana in order to Banish the Taniwha and stop it from wrecking havoc. Despite some hammy acting and some 'Special Effects' - it was a great story, not one I'd heard before and has all the hallmarks of a classic tale, all done without without a White Face anywhere present.

There's also some cracking tales from India, China, Japan (Can you say Anime?), Egypt etc. etc. Or perhaps another way - the same people that complain when Hollywood remakes a foreign film for a Western audience and casts western actors are the same people that clamor for James Bond to be Black or for Character X to be a Woman or similar.

Anyways - that rant aside, Certainly the traditional lobby groups have a certain sway - no one is going to deny that, but I would contrast that with certain fawning over a certain Swedish Teen - Have the big Lobbyists actually managed to get anything repealed? How much sway on Culture do those Lobbyist groups have? If you look at the trends - Most things start at the Universities and trickle into Mainstream culture over the course of about 10-20 years.

[jasonu]

I lived there for 1.5 years, 2018/2019. My wife is American. They are just like any race of people, there are smart people, dumb people, and a fair few ignorant people - like anywhere else.
We will see where the dumb ones that think they are smart (I.e his base) end up, when Trump gives them the replacement for Obama care in 2021. I'm sure he won't give those nice caring souls at big pharma and big insurance exactly what they want would he? He will protect the "little people" he so dearly cares about.
.

Were you here when bamma care was rolled out?

[Bonez]

Were you here when bamma care was rolled out?

You don't even need to do a very big search to see what happened tp folks premiums.They skyrocked.

[jasonu]

You don't even need to do a very big search to see what happened tp folks premiums.They skyrocked.

Not only the premiums. The coverage went downhill at the same time. If you couldn’t get or afford coverage and didn’t qualify for state coverage you got a fine when you filed your tax return. It hurt a lot of people especially in the lower end of middle class.

[Bonez]

I't halerious sugilite knows what's going to happen in 2021 wrt US health care.

[sugilite:Me]

Not only the premiums. The coverage went downhill at the same time. If you couldn’t get or afford coverage and didn’t qualify for state coverage you got a fine when you filed your tax return. It hurt a lot of people especially in the lower end of middle class.

Sure, I will take you on your word that happened. However, do you think from what you have seen thus far from Donald Trump, that his scheme will be better or worse than Obama Care - Is he for the people, or the dollar? Do you not find it in the least bit suspicious he consistently refuses to talk about the policies/details of the replacement?

I't halerious sugilite knows what's going to happen in 2021 wrt US health care.

I don't, and that was kinda my point - nobody does because Trump won't tell anyone.
Naturally you would be sweet as if a NZ party said, yeah, ACC sucks, and we are going to replace it, will tell you what with after the election - trust us.

[jasonu]

Sure, I will take you on your word that happened. However, do you think from what you have seen thus far from Donald Trump, that his scheme will be better or worse than Obama Care - Is he for the people, or the dollar? Do you not find it in the least bit suspicious he consistently refuses to talk about the policies/details of the replacement?

.

Mate honestly I have not paid any real attention to the news for ages as I got tired of Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff's antics and all the Trump bashing. The guy could come up with a cure for cancer and the US media would still slate him. Therefore I really don't know a lot about Trumps medical coverage scheme but I am confident it will be no worse than Bamma care (which was totally rammed down our throats!!!). Since Trump got in I personally am doing a little better and the county I live in is prospering more than under the previous crowd. I've said before that I voted against Hillary and I am still glad I did. I might have voted for Bernie if he wasn't shafted by his party. So far I don't see anything I like from the Dems. They really need to pull finger if they expect to beat Trump in 10 months time.

[Bonez]

Mate honestly I have not paid any real attention to the news for ages as I got tired of Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff's antics and all the Trump bashing. .

And I'd imagin a LOT of US citizens feel the same way.What ever happened to all that "overwelming evidence in plain sight" Shiff pushed for 2.5 years on TV? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZo...ture=emb_title