Advertise with Kiwi Biker
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 76 to 89 of 89

Thread: Mandatory ABS

  1. #76
    Join Date
    10th June 2006 - 18:35
    Bike
    KTM
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    398
    because 160hp on the road is fun, but not required on loose surfaces.

    pretty obvious really?

    I mean, you could argue if you don't need more than 100hp on the gravel then why do you need it on road

    well

    gotta go fast

  2. #77
    Join Date
    25th March 2004 - 17:22
    Bike
    RZ496/Street Triple R/GasGas/ etc etc
    Location
    Wellington. . ok the hutt
    Posts
    17,047
    So, this seemingly common belief that ABS systems are so crude that they will under hard applications turn off and let you coast for scary fractions of a second. - well that seems inconceivable. Surely that sort of behaviour was evolved out in short order?

    I'd expect modern systems to be better in all but bizarre situations.


    Crappy cut rate suzukis aside.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  3. #78
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    13,049
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    The WOF test will see if the ABS light comes on with the ignition and then goes off when the motor is running, same as the air-bag (SRS) test. Thats about as far as testing will go. There are ways to defeat both systems without being obvious
    Simple way to defeat that issue is to connect the ABS light to the oil pressure warning light ...
    Sweat wipes off. Road-rash doesn't.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    5th January 2007 - 14:58
    Bike
    motocompo
    Location
    Buttfuck nowhere
    Posts
    4,741
    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    So, this seemingly common belief that ABS systems are so crude that they will under hard applications turn off and let you coast for scary fractions of a second. - well that seems inconceivable. Surely that sort of behaviour was evolved out in short order?

    I'd expect modern systems to be better in all but bizarre situations.


    Crappy cut rate suzukis aside.
    If you think about how abs works, it will always be a lot more crude on a bike than a car.
    It references speed off the fastest wheel, any wheel rotating below a threshold slower than that wheel, under braking will have the abs activated to that wheel.
    A car has four wheels on two seperate tracks, those tracks may often have different grip levels, meaning the system can reference quite reliably.
    A bike can only reference one wheel speed of the other. That & them being both on the same track, the system is flawed from the outset.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    14th June 2007 - 22:39
    Bike
    Obsolete ones.
    Location
    Pigs back.
    Posts
    4,801
    Been having a quick squizz around the internet and it's interesting to see the comparisons between non ABS, ABS and Cornering ABS.
    Manopausal.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    25th March 2004 - 17:22
    Bike
    RZ496/Street Triple R/GasGas/ etc etc
    Location
    Wellington. . ok the hutt
    Posts
    17,047
    Surely front and back wheels are working independently. Else the front would be reduced to as bad as the rear, which is tragic.

    The demo shown at that Ridefest or whatever it was called they had bike with tripod outrigger then demo guy did stops with and without. He was pretty exciting to watch with it off. Would be better than 99% I'm sure . Easily beat his distance with abs switched on.

    I suspect it would have been closer with sportbike but
    . .
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  7. #82
    Join Date
    15th February 2017 - 13:17
    Bike
    BMW G310GS
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    If you think about how abs works, it will always be a lot more crude on a bike than a car.
    It references speed off the fastest wheel, any wheel rotating below a threshold slower than that wheel, under braking will have the abs activated to that wheel.
    A car has four wheels on two seperate tracks, those tracks may often have different grip levels, meaning the system can reference quite reliably.
    A bike can only reference one wheel speed of the other. That & them being both on the same track, the system is flawed from the outset.
    I think you are confusing traction control with ABS. Traction control references relative tyre speed. ABS looks for lock-up situations.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    5th January 2007 - 14:58
    Bike
    motocompo
    Location
    Buttfuck nowhere
    Posts
    4,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper View Post
    I think you are confusing traction control with ABS. Traction control references relative tyre speed. ABS looks for lock-up situations.
    No, I'm not confused about it at all. Why would the abs light come on if one incorrect circumference tyre is fitted to a car?
    It doesn't kick in at lock up, it kicks in once the wheel speed drops to a threshold not far below the fastest wheel on most systems.
    If you are driving a car at 100kmh & upon braking one wheel hits a slippery surface & that wheel decelerates to say 50kmh, the ABS will kick in, even though the wheel hasn't locked, only broken traction significantly.
    The reason the system has a threshold somewhat below the fastest wheel is to allow for differently worn tyres & wheel speed variances during cornering, although that one has been somewhat overcome by the use of steering angle sensors incorporated into the systems around 2003 onwards.
    I owned a European car garage for around 25 years, they were using four channel abs around '86 so I've played around with it a bit.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    13th July 2008 - 20:48
    Bike
    K1600GTL
    Location
    Rangiora
    Posts
    4,005
    It must be time for all the engineers at Bosch to retire.

    Because, from reading this thread, we all know better than they do. We are all far better at braking than a scientifically engineered braking system, developed using a gazillion dollars worth of R&D.

    Clearly, we all know better, because we have been able to emergency brake without falling off.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    20th June 2011 - 20:27
    Bike
    BMW XChallenge, GSXR1250fa, Tuono 1100
    Location
    Glen Eden
    Posts
    9,708
    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    It must be time for all the engineers at Bosch to retire.

    Because, from reading this thread, we all know better than they do. We are all far better at braking than a scientifically engineered braking system, developed using a gazillion dollars worth of R&D.

    Clearly, we all know better, because we have been able to emergency brake without falling off.
    Agreed. Im glad the fuse in my ABS fell out. BMWs ABS system is rubbish.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    5th January 2007 - 14:58
    Bike
    motocompo
    Location
    Buttfuck nowhere
    Posts
    4,741
    It's only as good as it can be given the limitations of the system.
    If both wheels lock on a bike, how does the system know that the bike isn't stopped?
    Short of ground speed radar being incorporated into the system, it will always have that flaw.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    8th January 2005 - 15:05
    Bike
    Triumph Speed Triple
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    8,725
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by jim.cox View Post
    We called them "safety briefings".

    And it may not have been tobacco in them ciggies.
    My Doctor seems to think that the riders have all stopped to take their Voltaren.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  13. #88
    Join Date
    13th July 2008 - 20:48
    Bike
    K1600GTL
    Location
    Rangiora
    Posts
    4,005
    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    It's only as good as it can be given the limitations of the system.
    In much the same way, a rider is only as good as their practiced habits. No practice = low skill.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    13th March 2008 - 14:26
    Bike
    2011 BMW F650GS
    Location
    Far North
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    It's only as good as it can be given the limitations of the system.
    If both wheels lock on a bike, how does the system know that the bike isn't stopped?
    Short of ground speed radar being incorporated into the system, it will always have that flaw.
    This is simple - ABS ceases to be operative below 4kph on both a motorcycle and a car. If the ABS didn't cease to operate at 4kph no vehicle would ever be able to stop. Simple electronics do this with absolutely no need for ground speed radar.

    I've restrained myself from commenting on some of the stuff that various riders have posted on this thread - much of it is SO wrong.

    Every half baked theory available anywhere in the world has been trotted out. If ABS was as bad as the Kiwibiker "experts" would have us believe then it would not have almost universal acceptance in the automotive world and rapidly rising acceptance in the motorcycle world.

    I ride motorcycles, new and old, with and without ABS. Both my cars are ABS equipped. Give me an ABS equipped vehicle any day. Sure, there are a very few number of times when ABS may not help [just as a seat belt will hold an unconscious person upside down in a car that is underwater] but in the vast majority of cases the automatic freeing up of a locked wheel assists stability and control. My first experience with ABS was in 1990 with my K100RS SE and I went and tried every condition that I could think of to find out how the system worked and what the limitations were. My latest BMW motorcycle has a much newer version of the system and works even better and again I have deliberately gone out and tried for real a huge variety of situations to find the limitations. Yes, it has some. But by knowing what, when and how the limitations are I can learn to take more care if I encounter such a situation.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •