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Thread: New Zealand Defense Force Shame

  1. #1
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    New Zealand Defense Force Shame

    7 Children dead in Afghanistan from Explosive device left by the New Zealand Defense force. 9 incidents in total says the United Nations.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117...-reprehensible

    And the New Zealand Defense force are making no comment.
    Not fucking acceptable, and not for the first time from the New Zealand Defense force when it comes to Afghanistan.
    1. Clean our shit up over there NOW.
    2. Charges need to be laid, and jail terms need to be issued - extra time for any defense force cronies that try to stonewall.
    Get it fucking done Jacinda, and NOW.

  2. #2
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    If the report is true and it was left on live-fire range, then I'm going to side with the above.

    Leaving Unexploded ordinance in a Hostile area because you didn't have time to pull out the rubbish bags whilst taking incoming fire is one thing.

    But not cleaning up your own Range (presumable that is at an outpost where you had reasonable security) is another (and not acceptable).
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  3. #3
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    ...pretty sad state of affairs all right...

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    Waits for Jacindas head tilt & concerned nod.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    Waits for Jacindas head tilt & concerned nod.
    Probably nationals fault.
    Lets go Brandon

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonu View Post
    Probably nationals fault.
    Bit disappointing were not privy to that take on it these days.
    They probably left their shit there under nationals watch, so that will be the blame angle.

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    What makes you think that the range wasnt continued to be used after we left?

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    how is leaving live ordnance on a firing range on an overseas deployment the fault of any political party?
    Surely that is the responsibility of the commanders on the ground to take care of?
    Unless the politicians gave instructions to not carry out business as usual would such a clear up not be the professional thing to do?
    I think NZDF get a bad rap and not always deservedly but at what point does management (senior officers) actually take responsibility?
    Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but how many times you have your breath taken away

  9. #9
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    It's a parenting problem.
    If I lived within walking distance of a live firing range, my children would be educated on the dangers that existed within that environment.

  10. #10
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    I've read the two items including the original one quoted in this thread, and have listened to the podcast. Sadly I'm none the wiser. The journalists know about the tragic deaths of the children but not much else.

    A military base would likely have attached a firing range for testing or training purposes. I have the impression though, correct or otherwise, that the journalists may be referring to the entire area of Afghanistan surrounding the Kiwi base as "firing ranges". Clearing that would be a mammoth task and the engineers, or whoever was undertaking the work, would require a strong escort with artillery and air support considering the situation in Afghanistan. The ten million dollars mentioned might not go very far.

    It's possible that these journalists are holding NZ Defence to a higher standard than other nations in previous wars. We won't know that until somebody who is familiar with the situation is available to comment. The journalists did say that the Defence people they spoke to were annoyed by their questions. It's possible they were asking silly questions.

    Still, on the information available an informed opinion remains beyond reach. We will just have to wait, although this burst of publicity might mean we don't have to wait long.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    It's a parenting problem.
    If I lived within walking distance of a live firing range, my children would be educated on the dangers that existed within that environment.
    A couple of things Bob in the article it states the range was used by NZ it doesn't mean it was only used by NZ exclusively or it wasnt full of munitions form the US or the russias over the last 50 years.
    EIther way if its our fault or not its a sad state of affairs considering NZ support for removing landmines and other unexploded munitions from other war zones
    At a guess The kids will be their not for fun to collect the brass lead and other scrap metals it a mater of putting food on the table.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    A military base would likely have attached a firing range for testing or training purposes. I have the impression though, correct or otherwise, that the journalists may be referring to the entire area of Afghanistan surrounding the Kiwi base as "firing ranges". Clearing that would be a mammoth task and the engineers, or whoever was undertaking the work, would require a strong escort with artillery and air support considering the situation in Afghanistan. The ten million dollars mentioned might not go very far.
    I certainly wouldn't put that passed the Media at this point....
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    EIther way if its our fault or not its a sad state of affairs considering NZ support for removing landmines and other unexploded munitions from other war zones
    .
    whatever happened to paul mcartneys one legged kitchen bitch, why didn't she sort it?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    ... At a guess The kids will be their not for fun to collect the brass lead and other scrap metals it a mater of putting food on the table.
    That is exactly why they were there. There are warning signs there in all the languages, the kids know the risk and the parents know, but want any metal they bring back to sell for money. Or "compensation" for their dead kids (and they usually have plenty). And they're not particular who pays, they just want money. It is a war zone, the whole fucking area is a hostile zone. The Russians found THAT out. The Yanks didn't take that hint and went anyway. After Vietnam, you'd think they'd be a little wiser.

    Closer to home ... the training areas in Waiouru are well known to have unexploded ordinance all over the place. That is why the big yellow signs are there telling you to keep out. Ignore them at your peril. One RNZAF explosive expert was killed there a few years back, dealing with some of it. He wasn't even handling it, just near it. The Moawhango dam was originally intended by local Councils to be a public boating lake. But the Ministry of Defense stopped that idea smartly, simply due to the risk of harm from unexploded ordinance. We used to see a few bodies of the wild horses that roamed the area now and then. The odd sheep has been killed the same way.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    The odd sheep has been killed the same way.
    No wonder I haven't seen any odd sheep there.

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