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Thread: Grace Millane.

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Why would you not consider that your death could be a very real possibility in that scenario?
    Ah, exactly!

    That is what I was explaining in other scenarios, but you kept referring to your post suggesting that your analogy was the only one that should be considered.

    Riding a motorcycle on the road - death is a very real possibility.
    Mountain climbing - death is a very real possibility.
    Doing a parachute jump - death is a very real possibility.
    Swimming at a beach - death is a very real possibility.
    etc.

    But engaging in rough sex with choking has a similarly low probability of death, unless the partner happens to be the sort of person that would deliberately murder you (which is a fairly low risk).

    So now, maybe go back to my previous posts and answer my questions?
    Like, we as motorcyclists risk our lives riding instead of using a car, but we do it anyway. When we ride on the road with the general public driving in cars (some could be drunk for all we know) we are taking a risk where death is a very real possibility - why are we judging Grace for her risky behaviour. You have NOT addressed this! You have only dismissed this idea saying you take precautions, but your precautions do NOT remove death as a very real possibility. Why is it that we can risk death but it is OK because we are not getting into the sidecar with the drunk rider so it is alright. That is not sensible logic. Many other scenarios risk death, not just your pet scenario.

    You keep on saying "but she invited a stranger to choke her" and think it is a valid answer.
    Others could say "but you keep on riding a motorcycle on public roads with all the risks that entails", but we don't care - we want to ride motorcycles and we do it anyway. We realise that ATGATT still leaves us vulnerable and no gear will ever eliminate the risk of death at 100kph. We know a car is safer, but we don't want to be in a car. We know that staying at home is safer, but we want to go out and ride. We choose to risk our lives to do something that we enjoy - you only think it is OK when we do that, not when Grace does it. A lot more people die in NZ when riding motorcycles than when having rough sex with choking so why do you think it is OK for you to do one thing and not for Grace to do the other.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessBandit View Post
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  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Do you actually understand the concept of 'mitigating' risk?
    I gave an example of Grace mitigating risk.
    I gave an example of how you could further mitigate your risk.
    I'm pretty sure that there is clear evidence for you to see that I do very much understand the concept of mitigating risk, so that is a fucking stupid question.



    BTW
    I won't be returning your childish red rep. I could not possibly red rep every moronic post you make, that would take forever even if the systems here would allow it.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessBandit View Post
    I realised that having 105kg of man sliding into my rear was a tad uncomfortable
    "If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
    - George Carlin (RIP)

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkH View Post
    I gave an example of Grace mitigating risk.
    Then I disagree with your concept of mitigating risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkH View Post
    I won't be returning your childish red rep.
    Ah well, before you go having too much of a cry about it, take another read of post #177 (your first post in this thread) and ask yourself whether you came here looking for rational discussion or whether you were instead just looking for a confrontation.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Then I disagree with your concept of mitigating risk.
    .
    we know, but you're an idiot and you're wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Ah well, before you go having too much of a cry about it, take another read of post #177 (your first post in this thread) and ask yourself whether you came here looking for rational discussion or whether you were instead just looking for a confrontation.
    That's pretty funny, coming from you.

    You want to blame a victim, can't handle that no one thinks that's cool, and you're crying about it and being confrontational.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Well then I still don't understand why you felt the need to use the word perversion.

    'Perversion' has absolutely nothing to do with the point of this thread.
    I used "perversion", because some enjoy some thing as a perversion and some enjoy it as a matter of course. Such acknowledges that there's more than black and white reasoning when it comes to defining what is classed as a sensible thing to do. To someone who gets choked all the time, there is nothing not sensible about deriving pleasure from being choked. To someone who sees choking as nothing much more than a violent act, it won't seem sensible. In fact it will seem "perverted" (not deviant). And the shades of grey in between. Just acknowledging that which is, because that which is defines that which is "normal/sensible".

    I get that it doesn't seem sensible to you and that you will have your shade of grey to underpin that belief, but perversions are a matter of taste i.e. what's sensible for one isn't necessarily considered sensible by another.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    I used "perversion", because some enjoy some thing as a perversion and some enjoy it as a matter of course. Such acknowledges that there's more than black and white reasoning when it comes to defining what is classed as a sensible thing to do. To someone who gets choked all the time, there is nothing not sensible about deriving pleasure from being choked. To someone who sees choking as nothing much more than a violent act, it won't seem sensible. In fact it will seem "perverted" (not deviant). And the shades of grey in between. Just acknowledging that which is, because that which is defines that which is "normal/sensible".

    I get that it doesn't seem sensible to you and that you will have your shade of grey to underpin that belief, but perversions are a matter of taste i.e. what's sensible for one isn't necessarily considered sensible by another.
    And you still manage to miss my point.

    It's the placing of that ultimate trust in the hands (quite literally) of someone that she didn't know from a bar of soap that I'm questioning the sensibility of.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    And for those who would like to liken it to racing a sidecar around Wanganui's street circuit, it would be far more akin to jumping onto a sidecar, as a passenger, with a complete stranger driving it, after you'd be on the piss with them for a few hours, and going for a few laps of that same circuit.

    What level of 'sensible' would that be?
    straw man.riding on a sidecar with an unknown drunk person is indeed bloody stupid.Talking about sex with a drunk stranger is much more normal behaviour even if it does involve some more risque techniques.
    They are not remotely the same.One has a very real threat of injury or death,the other virtually none(in her experience)

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWST? View Post
    Talking about sex with a drunk stranger is much more normal behaviour even if it does involve some more risque techniques.
    I think they did more than just talk about it.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I think they did more than just talk about it.
    yes they did but the perceived threat for her was much less than the risk of riding a sidecar around wanganui with a drunk rider

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWST? View Post
    yes they did but the perceived threat for her was much less than the risk of riding a sidecar around wanganui with a drunk rider
    No it wasn't.

    The action of allowing a drunk male, who she didn't know from a bar of soap, to place his hands around her throat for the purposes of choking her is the same type of risk as my drunk sidecar rider analogy.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    No it wasn't.

    The action of allowing a drunk male, who she didn't know from a bar of soap, to place his hands around her throat for the purposes of choking her is the same type of risk as my drunk sidecar rider analogy.
    thats being clever AFTER the fact.I said perceived which all you can do BEFORE it happens

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The action of allowing a drunk male, who she didn't know from a bar of soap, to place his hands around her throat for the purposes of choking her is the same type of risk as my drunk sidecar rider analogy.
    You seem to be very slow at catching on to the idea that nobody much agrees with you. You might consider the possibility that there's a good reason they don't?
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWST? View Post
    riding on a sidecar with an unknown drunk person is indeed bloody stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by BMWST? View Post
    thats being clever AFTER the fact.I said perceived which all you can do BEFORE it happens
    So in the same way that it would be wise to not get on the sidecar with the drunk rider it would have been wise to not allow a drunk stranger to choke her.

    It's exactly the same principle.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    So in the same way that it would be wise to not get on the sidecar with the drunk rider it would have been wise to not allow a drunk stranger to choke her.

    It's exactly the same principle.
    I have a good friend seriously injured in Wanganui hospital right now from a sidecar accident he did not cause & I can assure you the rider was not drunk.
    It was simply the result of something quite exhilarating & inherently risky going a bit too far.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    ....& I can assure you the rider was not drunk.
    And I can assure you the one in my analogy is.

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