Grace Millane.

[Laava]

You seem to be very slow at catching on to the idea that nobody much agrees with you. You might consider the possibility that there's a good reason they don't?

No, he will never consider that. That would mean an end to everything his world is built around.

[husaberg]

No, he will never consider that. That would mean an end to everything his world is built around.

Remember the story with the three little pigs it turns out steveos house is made entirely from strawmen.
he has zero evidence that grace asked the dude to stangle her the last woment he tried to suffocate didnt either.
But lil stevo will never admit he doesnt know if she even asked him to stangle her as that doesnt suit his story.

[Murray]

No it wasn't.

The action of allowing a drunk male, who she didn't know from a bar of soap, to place his hands around her throat for the purposes of choking her is the same type of risk as my drunk sidecar rider analogy.

Excuse me how do you know she allowed this??

[Katman]

Excuse me how do you know she allowed this??

Because there was no evidence presented that she put up any sort of fight.

[husaberg]

Because there was no evidence presented that she put up any sort of fight.

So the fact the last women, who testified that he tried to suffocate her, did not give him consent to him suffocating her either.
Or the fact that even after he suffocated her, she did not have any marks on her to indicate a struggle either ,mean nothing.
As you think you know better than either the judge the jury or the other witnesses.
Is it no wonder no one takes you seriously and treats you as a troll.

As this statement was made as if it was a fact that she had asked or consented to be choked.

Asking a pissed stranger to choke her certainly 'contributed' to her death.

Problem fo you is you cant say this is anywhere near a fact its entirely your opinion based on little in the way of knowledge of this case.

[Katman]

Problem fo you is you cant say this is anywhere near a fact its entirely your opinion based on little in the way of knowledge of this case.

Do you have any evidence you can present that shows she tried to fight her killer off?

[Murray]

Because there was no evidence presented that she put up any sort of fight.

Do you actually realise how stupid that comment makes you sound, and what difference does it make? YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOU TRIED YOU FIGHT BACK?

[Katman]

Do you actually realise how stupid that comment makes you sound, and what difference does it make? YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOU TRIED YOU FIGHT BACK?

If there was any evidence that she put up any sort of fight the prosecution would have presented it.

[Murray]

If there was any evidence that she put up any sort of fight the prosecution would have presented it.

So in your mind is someone is killed the prosecution has to prove that they tried to fight back otherwise they are not guilty, Do you realise how stupid that is!!

[Katman]

YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOU TRIED YOU FIGHT BACK?

If you're trying to suggest that the choking wasn't consensual then yes, that would be helpful.

[Murray]

If you're trying to suggest that the choking wasn't consensual then yes, that would be helpful.

Idiotic logic

[Katman]

Idiotic logic

Well actually Murray, that's the point of the whole thread.

If the choking was consensual then Grace Millane's actions and poor decisions most certainly contributed to her death.

If the choking wasn't consensual then some little scrap of evidence to prove that would be useful.

[Murray]

Well actually Murray, that's the point of the whole thread.

If the choking was consensual then Grace Millane's actions and poor decisions most certainly contributed to her death.

If the choking wasn't consensual then some little scrap of evidence to prove that would be useful.

So in your mind if someone is killed the prosecution has to prove that they tried to fight back otherwise they are not guilty, Do you realise how stupid that is!!

[husaberg]

Do you have any evidence you can present that shows she tried to fight her killer off?

I am not the person making claims purporting it to be a fact she asked him to choke her when in fact you have zero evidence that this is a fact.

Asking a pissed stranger to choke her certainly 'contributed' to her death.

You have zero facts to back up this statement.

Not only that the jury doesn't agree with you either and they were present far more evidence than you were.

Justice Moore said if the jury believed Millane consented to the accused applying force to her neck - they must acquit the accused on both murder and manslaughter.

"It is a defence if [the accused] honestly believed Miss Millane consented to him putting pressure on her neck … It does not matter if it was mistaken or unreasonable," he explained.

If they believe she did not consent - they must find him guilty of manslaughter.

Justice Moore said murderous intent was when a defendant means to cause bodily injury that is known to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not.
He said the jury had to be 100 per cent sure that the accused had murderous intent when he put his hands on Millane's neck.
"Are you sure that when he applied pressure to Miss Millane's neck … did he intend to cause injury?" he posed.
"If you answer is yes, then you would find [the accused] guilty of murder."
He said if the jury did not believe he intended to cause harm to Millane, he was not guilty of the charge of murder.
Again, they had to be sure beyond reasonable doubt.
"Are you sure when he applied pressure to Miss Millane's neck [he] ran the risk of Miss Millane dying … he nevertheless continued.
"If yes, then [the accused] is guilty of murder.

[Katman]

So in your mind is someone is killed the prosecution has to prove that they tried to fight back otherwise they are not guilty, Do you realise how stupid that is!!

No Murray. You appear to be even more clueless tonight than usual.

The point of this thread isn't to determine whether Grace Millane's killer is guilty or not - the court has already decided that. And I have stated in the very first post of the thread that I agree with their decision.

The purpose of this thread is to examine what extent Grace Millane's poor decision making contributed to the outcome.