Grace Millane.

[FJRider]

Perhaps if you read and understood, I wouldn't need to do so...

I tried it a few times ... I kept falling asleep.

No one is arguing that shit doesn't happen.

It's the difference between being hit by lightning in a freak occurence and being hit by lightning whilst climbing a tree, holding a golfclub up to the sky, wearing your finest tinfoil hat in a thunderstorm.

One is bad luck, one is due to the result of a series of poor decisions

A freak occurrence is being hit by lightning. A normal occurrence is being hit by vehicles they didn't look for.

Taking Positive action is a Mitigation strategy...

Taking a shit is a Mitigation strategy. Your point is ... ??

I haven't - but the folks who came up with the concept of the Survivability Onion namely The US Army (I hear they've done a few things with tanks in War like situations over the years) would disagree.
Page 21, if you are interested. - however to link the Tangent back - there are parallels between that, Motorcycling and other situations - namely you want to start with avoidance - working all the way down to the final step of 'don't die'. At each layer or level, there are things that can be done to stop a potential threat from proceeding any further.

The yanks didn't win all the wars they were involved in ...

Basic tank strategy is hit them before they hit you. And stay hidden (not always easy) until you strike. Then ... the fun starts.

Does it? Emergency braking and emergency avoidance once the incident has started are a thing. Granted we tend to refer to those as 'close calls' - but the point stands - something happened, our first layer of defence failed, but the second layer succeeded and all we had to do was ride home and wash our leathers.

Yep ... "Emergency Braking" is the last form of defense ... a last ditch effort to regain control before it really turns to shit. It means you didn't see it coming, otherwise you would have braked earlier.

I'm still here, so whichever strategy I'm using, it's clearly working.

You're alive. Probably a source of regret for some ... but if you've never ended up on the tar seal and "leaking" ... you could be just lucky. Some people win Lotto more than once.

Seems to me then, given your vintage, that it's not entirely luck, is it? That something you are doing (or not doing) is preventing major accidents, one might even go so far to say that these things collectively might be what have formed a sort of 'strategy' for 'mitigating' major offs...

Long may it continue for you.

As a general rule ... I hold myself responsible for all or any incidents I have riding. I never say "Not My fault" ... as it partially is. It takes more than one factor to cause an accident ... I am only one factor.

2 where I came off the bike.

Both of which, despite not being at fault (and here it comes): There were things I should have done with MY riding, that had I done so, would have prevented the accident, even though I was not at fault

The first accident is/was the only semi-major accident I had and was whilst I was still a learner - the key take away points were situational awareness, proper braking technique and anticipation of what other motorists would do.

"NOT MY FAULT" ... possibly the real reason accidents happen. "If I'm not at fault it won't happen. If it does happen I'll be OK because I'm not at fault". Yeah right ...

Well, if something is worth doing...

Do it right ... or it isn't ...

Agreed - but it's not something I'm contending or relevant to the line of discussion regarding personal responsibility. You may as well have posted that Water is indeed Wet.

Personal responsibility is a funny thing ... it often taps you on the shoulder ... when you thought the door was closed ... and LOCKED.

[caspernz]

Reading thru this thread I can't help but divert my thinking to the old adage of "circle of concern vs circle of influence" and how it's completely lost on some folks...as you were

[Katman]

Reading thru this thread I can't help but divert my thinking to the old adage of "circle of concern vs circle of influence" and how it's completely lost on some folks...as you were

Do you not think that Grace Millane's actions fell within the circle of influence?

[mashman]

It ain't me putting anything on your doorstep.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

There is no opposite I assure you. You read the world as you are. Now fuck off.

[Katman]

There is no opposite I assure you. You read the world as you are. Now fuck off.

Really?

Because it sounds to me like you're trying to suggest that I disapprove of Grace Millane's actions because I see them as some sort of 'perversion'.

I have said repeatedly, that I disapprove of her actions simply due to the fact that to deliberately abrogate all level of responsibility for your safety into the hands of a drunken stranger is fucking stupid.

If you choose to misinterpret what I'm saying, that's your problem - not mine.

[mashman]

Really?

Because it sounds to me like you're trying to suggest that I disapprove of Grace Millane's actions because I see them as some sort of 'perversion'.

I have said repeatedly, that I disapprove of her actions simply due to the fact that to deliberately abrogate all level of responsibility for your safety into the hands of a drunken stranger is fucking stupid.

If you choose to misinterpret what I'm saying, that's your problem - not mine.

Le sigh. We cleared up the use of perversion. Continuing with it as some form of evidence that I put something in your mouth shows that you really are confused.

Yes, you have stated that repeatedly. Pretty sure that I stated that I got it somewhere along the lines. What you class as fuckin stupid, others call a normal saturday night. The End.

[Katman]

What you class as fuckin stupid, others call a normal saturday night.

If that's the case, then it would appeared that fucking stupidity is becoming the norm.

(Pretty much like I implied earlier in the thread).

[mashman]

If that's the case, then it would appeared that fucking stupidity is becoming the norm.

(Pretty much like I implied earlier in the thread).

ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa... I agree, but on different grounds, as well as a change of tense i.e. "has become". Pleasure with risk is as old as the hills and as flavoursome as consensual tastes allow. It's nothing new and is highly unlikely to become "dominant" sexual behaviour. I may be wrong and they'll teach it at school in Sex Ed in 10 years time to offer awareness to young adults that such is an option, and "how to do it safely" (another point you made if I Am not mistaken).

[caspernz]

Do you not think that Grace Millane's actions fell within the circle of influence?

No, it doesn't fall in my circle of influence.

The concept of "circle of concern vs circle of influence" is fairly straightforward

[Katman]

The concept of "circle of concern vs circle of influence" is fairly straightforward

What a shame then that you don't seem to understand the circle of concern/circle of influence concept.

It's not a case of 'vs'.

It simply states that one's circle of influence is a smaller circle that fits within one's circle of concern.

I'm asking if Grace Millane gave any consideration to her circle of influence.

[Katman]

No, it doesn't fall in my circle of influence.

Grace Millane's circle of influence has nothing to do with your circle of influence.

Grace's actions were well within her circle of influence though.

In fact, they were well within her circle of control even.

[Katman]

No, it doesn't fall in my circle of influence.

Duplicate post deleted.