Advertise with Kiwi Biker
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Modifying LAMS Motorcycles

  1. #1
    Join Date
    13th January 2020 - 22:01
    Bike
    2016 Yamaha YZF-R3
    Location
    Canterbury
    Posts
    1

    Modifying LAMS Motorcycles

    Apologies as I can see other thread on this issue but so far it seems undecided and I think I have new information to bring to the table. I haven't been able to get a clear answer and a people seem to all say different things on this so I thought I'd ask again.
    Basically I'm looking at buying a mates Yamaha YZF-R3, and I'm on a learners, but it has a number of modifications including a after market exhaust system, a dynojet powercommander, YSS rear hydraulic shock, and a K&N air filter amonth other small tweaks.
    According to NZTA's website learners approved bikes must be "in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio." and further says "Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases or decreases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list."
    However, the Yamaha dealership I called said basically "It doesnt matter the police dont care about it and we all do it" and a number of people I have talked to said the same.
    Additionally, and this is what I havent seen anyone mention, in the actual legislation, the Land Transport Act, it states something completely different to the NZTA site, it says aslong as its power-to-weight ratio doesn't exceed 150kW its fine to be LAMS, absolutely nothing saying just modifying it would invalidate the LAMS status. I also found an insurer (NAC) which was happy to offer insurance on the bike even though its modified, but I'm wary of this because it says in the policy that they wont cover damage to the bike if you are riding outside of license conditions.
    Does anyone know for certain if this would still be a LAMS bike?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    1st June 2014 - 21:23
    Bike
    Ducati 748R
    Location
    nelson
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGremlin View Post
    Apologies as I can see other thread on this issue but so far it seems undecided and I think I have new information to bring to the table. I haven't been able to get a clear answer and a people seem to all say different things on this so I thought I'd ask again.
    Basically I'm looking at buying a mates Yamaha YZF-R3, and I'm on a learners, but it has a number of modifications including a after market exhaust system, a dynojet powercommander, YSS rear hydraulic shock, and a K&N air filter amonth other small tweaks.
    According to NZTA's website learners approved bikes must be "in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio." and further says "Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases or decreases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list."
    However, the Yamaha dealership I called said basically "It doesnt matter the police dont care about it and we all do it" and a number of people I have talked to said the same.
    Additionally, and this is what I havent seen anyone mention, in the actual legislation, the Land Transport Act, it states something completely different to the NZTA site, it says aslong as its power-to-weight ratio doesn't exceed 150kW its fine to be LAMS, absolutely nothing saying just modifying it would invalidate the LAMS status. I also found an insurer (NAC) which was happy to offer insurance on the bike even though its modified, but I'm wary of this because it says in the policy that they wont cover damage to the bike if you are riding outside of license conditions.
    Does anyone know for certain if this would still be a LAMS bike?
    If it has been modified it is no longer standard ... you kinds answered your own question. Mr plod probably wont give a damn as long as you aren't a smart ass and give him a reason to be a prick.

    Ring the insurance company and ask exactly what you want to know( will you insure me on this motorcycle with minor modifications if i am in an accident) and get it in writing , then you are good to go.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    28th January 2015 - 16:17
    Bike
    2000 Ducati ST2
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    1,159
    +1 to the above, there's the law as written and then there's the law as actually enforced. As Layton suggests, having a completely honest conversation with your possible insurer and riding sensibly should see you right.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    8th January 2005 - 15:05
    Bike
    Triumph Speed Triple
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    8,789
    Blog Entries
    1
    It seemed as if you were going to miss an important point but you got there right at the end. In the event of an accident the insurance company can refuse to pay. Most insurance companies, if you offer them an out, will take it.

    As Dirty Harry Callahan said, "Do you feel lucky?"
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  5. #5
    Join Date
    2nd March 2018 - 15:32
    Bike
    1998 Yamaha R1
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    622
    When I changed insurers a few months ago, after reading the policy carefully I phoned up to inform them that my bike had a modified exhaust. The person on the phone sounded surprised, like no one bothers to tell us that.



    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    13th July 2008 - 20:48
    Bike
    R1200RT LC
    Location
    Paremata
    Posts
    4,088
    In order for a bike to be LAMS approved, it must be on the NZTA LAMS approved list. Even if it's on the list, if its modified to increase power or decrease weight, or both, it invalidates the LAMS approval.

    Most police haven't heard of LAMS. Unless they own a bike themselves, or are a traffic specialist, most dont know the rules around LAMS.

    The shop is interested in nothing beyond how much money you spend on hitting the bike up. Their advice is self serving.

    But they are right. In reality, nothing much will happen, at least in regard to the police. Insurance is a different story. A modified LAMS bike will give them the chance to walk away.

    Your call.

    BTW, pinching Gremlins moniker. Untidy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    13,100
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    ... Even if it's on the list, if its modified to increase power or decrease weight, or both, it invalidates the LAMS approval.
    Actually it does not state THAT at all. What it DOES say is ... "They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio".

    If there is no actual proof of either an increase in power (or weight loss) ... that would affect the bikes Power to weight ratio that allowed it to be LAM's approved ... it MUST be legal.
    Sweat wipes off. Road-rash doesn't.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    23rd October 2013 - 18:30
    Bike
    72 Kawasaki A7, 05 Kawasaki W650
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    1,283
    I don't understand why this question keeps coming up - it's unambiguous, any LAMS bike that is modified is no longer a LAMS bike, end of story. The legislation defers to the Driver Licensing Rule in terms of these regulations, so you won't find it in the Act. Here is the quote from the Rule:

    approved motorcycle means the make and model of any motorcycle that—
    (a)

    has an engine capacity of 250 cc or less, unless the Agency has prohibited the use of that make and model of motorcycle by notice published on the Agency’s Internet site; or
    (b)

    has an engine capacity of more than 250 cc but not more than 660 cc and a power-to-weight ratio of not more than 150 kilowatts per tonne and is approved for use by the Agency by notice published on the Agency’s Internet site; or
    (c)

    is powered by motive power wholly derived from an external source of electricity and is approved for use by the Agency by notice published on the Agency’s Internet site
    So it's simple - whatever the website says, goes. The website is absolutely unambiguous - if it's modified, it's not LAMS, period.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    23rd October 2013 - 18:30
    Bike
    72 Kawasaki A7, 05 Kawasaki W650
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    1,283
    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Actually it does not state THAT at all. What it DOES say is ... "They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio".

    If there is no actual proof of either an increase in power (or weight loss) ... that would affect the bikes Power to weight ratio that allowed it to be LAM's approved ... it MUST be legal.
    You are reading selectively, and have chosen to ignore this statement, in reference to LAMS-listed bikes.

    these motorcycles must in standard form as produced by the manufacturer.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    13,100
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner View Post
    You are reading selectively, and have chosen to ignore this statement, in reference to LAMS-listed bikes.
    It's in black and white. As written in Legislation. Nothing is either ignored OR left out.

    By way of example ... some motorcycles are "Older" models ... original items (such as exhaust's) are unobtainable. So aftermarket items ARE allowed. If they do not increase the Power to weight ratio. Whatever the actual reason you might like to fit aftermarket parts (looks, style, price, or simply it fits and works ) ... and the power to weight ratio is not altered ... it MUST be legal.

    Hence the reason for the wording.
    Sweat wipes off. Road-rash doesn't.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    1st June 2014 - 21:23
    Bike
    Ducati 748R
    Location
    nelson
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    It's in black and white. As written in Legislation. Nothing is either ignored OR left out.

    By way of example ... some motorcycles are "Older" models ... original items (such as exhaust's) are unobtainable. So aftermarket items ARE allowed. If they do not increase the Power to weight ratio. Whatever the actual reason you might like to fit aftermarket parts (looks, style, price, or simply it fits and works ) ... and the power to weight ratio is not altered ... it MUST be legal.

    Hence the reason for the wording.
    An aftermarket pipe will be lighter and more then likely produce more horsepower therefore you have changed the power to weight ratio.
    The bike in question is not an older model ...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    8th January 2005 - 15:05
    Bike
    Triumph Speed Triple
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    8,789
    Blog Entries
    1
    Most aftermarket cans or systems are lighter than the original equipment. Less weight increases the power to weight ratio. Even if, as is likely, there is no significant increase in horsepower.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  13. #13
    Join Date
    13th July 2008 - 20:48
    Bike
    R1200RT LC
    Location
    Paremata
    Posts
    4,088
    Most mods are designed to either increase power or reduce weight. By defacto, they are increasing the power to weight ratio.

    Other reasons include saving lives. Like, loud pipes save lives.

    Tui ad.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    13,100
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    An aftermarket pipe will be lighter and more then likely produce more horsepower therefore you have changed the power to weight ratio.
    The bike in question is not an older model ...
    Do the sums and figure it out yourself. ie: actual weight saved and the actual (if any) HP gained and see if it fits in the approved formula result.

    To confirm any gains ... put it on the dyno before and after ... doing that may confirm if the the HP claims of the manufacturer were correct or not. Often they are not.

    By your own words .. "more than likely" means not absolute. And to get a definite noticeable (possible) increase in power to the back wheel ... improvements to jetting are usually required to gain anything.

    Most don't bother to re-jet and and are quite happy with the new sound of the exhaust (but still claim they notice a performance gain). Usually the actual (only ??) reason they want to "Upgrade" the exhaust system is "The better sound" ...
    Sweat wipes off. Road-rash doesn't.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    1st June 2014 - 21:23
    Bike
    Ducati 748R
    Location
    nelson
    Posts
    199
    As i said before the bike in question has had said works done. You miss the point. It HAS had parts swapped from OEM. and it WILL have less weight and more power.

    And you are also correct in saying it stil fits the power to weight ratio but that was never the question, the bike has been modified from OEM.

    Anyhow i am going to start a convo with a block of wood.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •