Moeraki crash

[rastuscat]

Another great post by Berries. I tip my hat sir.

Having been involve in a shit happens incident with car that Tboned me I know exactly what he means,

Some here seem to think teaching is the cover all bases solution when actual experance out on our, in places, rather crappy roads as well as the have to deal with crappy riders/drivers(domestic and overseas visitors)/cyclist/padestrians/stock etc.

I applaud riders like the young deaf lass new to riding I met last weekend. Out there in the pea gravel doing it instead of theorising in a class room or getting their knee down on the track.

Indeed. Berries nailed it. There are some crashes that can't be avoided by coaching.

A friend hit a tree on the West Coast a few years back. The tree fell onto the road at the precise second my friend was passing that point. He happened to be riding a Police R1150RT-P at the time. No amount of the training he had could have prevented that.

However, I suggest that those bins are the minority. Most often there is something we can do, something in the way we ride, that can help to minimise our chance of becoming a victim. Either of our own mistakes, or of the mistakes of others.

However, the pattern I've personally seen is the human tendency the apportion blame elsewhere. It's normal to do that. Freud said so.

In reality, the discussion about fault doesn't matter much when you are lying in the back of an ambulance, with a broken arm, broken leg and ruptured spleen. Coaching is about things you can do to reduce the risk of those things.

Sorry to see this thread turn into a slanging match. But hey, it is what we make it.

[Bonez]

A big factor is our emotions get away on us wrt blame. Best thing to do is take a deep breath and try to process what happened without getting too carried away. When I was Tboned the lady who was diving the car was obviously in shock and sat parked across the road for the police/ambulance to arrive.

[nzspokes]

i've been involved in training throughout my whole working carreer dickhead. Drafted safety manuals, practices a proprocedures for various feilds of operations, tutorials.
Training only goes so far. There is no sub subtitute for exprience. Any good instructor will tell you that. In fact you'll most likely find if a student has been doing a certain task/operation for a while they'll know more than the instructor about that task/operation..

What is your claim to fame? You're just a keyboard worrier that knows didly sqat about training at all.

Experience is a bad instructor, it gives you exam before the lesson.

BTW turn spell check on .

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Bonez]

Experience is a bad instructor, it gives you exam before the lesson.

BTW turn spell check on .

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

You're full of shit. It's obvoius you don't have a clue what you are on about.

Ever heard of work experirence?

[onearmedbandit]

79 posts removed from this thread, another 21 and I reach my daily quota!

[Bonez]

Well done OAB.

[rastuscat]

79 posts removed from this thread, another 21 and I reach my daily quota!

Luf u long time.

Makes me smile to think that you have a quota. I used to be accused of that.

[Stylo]

Luf u long time.

Makes me smile to think that you have a quota. I used to be accused of that.

I think it was you that pulled me up Rastus, maybe 5 years ago when I was on my way to Akaroa on the 'Busa. You were standing and pointing the speed gun thing at me as I came round the corner. One of those public holiday weekends when the speed limit was 105 . You asked me why I was going so quick and I said 'How fast was I going? ' You said I was doing 106. A remarkable feat that I was only going that fast . No ticket but you gave me a voucher for a rider course at Ruapuna. I gave that to my partner and she actually did the course on her Suzuki Gladius 650 ( surely the worst name ever given to a motorcycle) If it wasn't you then it must have been another good coppa. Never gone over 105 since.

[JimO]

I think it was you that pulled me up Rastus, maybe 5 years ago when I was on my way to Akaroa on the 'Busa. You were standing and pointing the speed gun thing at me as I came round the corner. One of those public holiday weekends when the speed limit was 105 . You asked me why I was going so quick and I said 'How fast was I going? ' You said I was doing 106. A remarkable feat that I was only going that fast . No ticket but you gave me a voucher for a rider course at Ruapuna. I gave that to my partner and she actually did the course on her Suzuki Gladius 650 ( surely the worst name ever given to a motorcycle) If it wasn't you then it must have been another good coppa. Never gone over 105 since.

must have been a downhill to get a old Busa up to 106

[Bonez]

must have been a downhill to get a old Busa up to 106

Miles an hour......

[rastuscat]

I think it was you that pulled me up Rastus, maybe 5 years ago when I was on my way to Akaroa on the 'Busa. You were standing and pointing the speed gun thing at me as I came round the corner. One of those public holiday weekends when the speed limit was 105 . You asked me why I was going so quick and I said 'How fast was I going? ' You said I was doing 106. A remarkable feat that I was only going that fast . No ticket but you gave me a voucher for a rider course at Ruapuna. I gave that to my partner and she actually did the course on her Suzuki Gladius 650 ( surely the worst name ever given to a motorcycle) If it wasn't you then it must have been another good coppa. Never gone over 105 since.

Irony. I ended up working at that school based at Ruapuna.

Just to note though. The speed limit was and is 100. It's the tolerance that changes.

Heard about my latest gig?

[rastuscat]

The grey hair tells a story.

[onearmedbandit]

The grey hair tells a story.

Excessive consumption of donuts leads to premature greying?

[TheDemonLord]

Indeed. Berries nailed it. There are some crashes that can't be avoided by coaching.

A friend hit a tree on the West Coast a few years back. The tree fell onto the road at the precise second my friend was passing that point. He happened to be riding a Police R1150RT-P at the time. No amount of the training he had could have prevented that.

However, I suggest that those bins are the minority. Most often there is something we can do, something in the way we ride, that can help to minimise our chance of becoming a victim. Either of our own mistakes, or of the mistakes of others.

However, the pattern I've personally seen is the human tendency the apportion blame elsewhere. It's normal to do that. Freud said so.

In reality, the discussion about fault doesn't matter much when you are lying in the back of an ambulance, with a broken arm, broken leg and ruptured spleen. Coaching is about things you can do to reduce the risk of those things.

Sorry to see this thread turn into a slanging match. But hey, it is what we make it.

To really dial in the nuance - both accidents I've had (fortunately minor) were caused by a third party, but even then - there were things I could (and should) have done proactively that would have avoided the crash.

One look at Youtube Go-Pro accident compilations - I've yet to see a single one where the accident didn't start a good 3-5 seconds before the rider noticed and started to take any evasive action, those seconds could have prevented the accident.

By that I mean (as an example) a Car started to pull out of an intersection (the start of the accident) but the rider only noticed and started evasive action when the car crossed into their path.

There are other things as well - bitter experience in Auckland taught me to be especially wary of large, late model luxury SUVs in white, driven by a particular demographic.

I think the TL;DR is that whilst the overwhelming majority of crashes are ones where there were action(s) that the rider could have taken to prevent or mitigate the accident, then people will continue to bang the 'Training' drum loudly for all to hear.

Should we ever reach a time and place where the majority of Crashes are through completely unavoidable scenarios, then the discussion will move in a different direction.

[Conquiztador]

It is certainly a problem worth worrying about.

My first step would be to separate out the Chinese because they appear to exhibit genuinely poor driving behaviour that is resulting in unacceptable levels of road trauma.

Then you have to realise that you can’t engineer your way out of these issues because there is too much road and too little money. You can’t ban people from certain countries and testing them is pointless because a half hour drive around Auckland and a scratchy is not going to help assess how you cope with SH6 down the West Coast. There is going to be a reliance on technology and collision avoidance but until the real intelligent stuff starts making an appearance and all rental vehicles are required to have it there is going to be more carnage.

There is some small stuff that could be done, like a lot more roadside reminders for tourists. There is a Keep Left road sign now but they don’t have any on the tourist routes down south. Constant reminders and reminders at the right time and place can help reduce the chances of a driver pulling out on the wrong side of the road. Markings can guide them into the correct lane but this is only done at signals, perhaps have them at rest areas as well? There are painted arrows everywhere now but even these could be improved by angling them towards the correct lane.

There are little things like that but the reality will remain the same. At some point somewhere on their holiday they might make a mistake and the chances are most of the time they will get away with it. When they don’t it will be front page news because it is a bloody foreigner and New Zealand loves stuff like that. Not trying to belittle this serious issue, but if you are involved in a head on crash it is far more likely to be with a local.

The solution that will be foisted on us all is a blanket reduction in the speed limit on popular tourist routes to accommodate the shit driving that we all see but also to reduce the impact when a head on crash does occur.

This kind of stuff will keep on happening as long as we drive/ride on the roads.

Here some thoughts that might make a difference, then again... but fwiw here goes:

- If you turn up in NZ with an overseas driving license and you rent a vehicle you will need to buy an insurance that will provide funds for a family that lost a loved one or he/she ended up in hospital as result of your driving. If you bring the vehicle back and you have not had an accident that has caused an injury or death, or you have no fines based on your poor driving, you will get some money back from what you paid for the insurance.

- If you come from overseas with a non NZ license and someone lends you a car, the car lender needs to know that if the overseas visitor does not have the insurance (as above) the lender will also be held responsible for the accident.

- When you come to Kiwi Land you need to know that if you seriously injure or you kill someone with your driving and it was your fault, the minimum penalty is 3 years in jail. Only people who come from countries that have an agreement between NZ and their country that stipulates that if you, as result of your driving, end up in court and you get a jail sentence, you are able to complete this sentence in your home country, are allowed to drive in NZ.

- Only overseas drivers who can prove that they hold a clean driving record and they have held their overseas license for a minimum of 3 years can drive in NZ.

- If you have an incident where you kill someone in NZ, or you put them in hospital, you will NOT be able to return to NZ if this happened while you only held an overseas license.

Harsh? Yep. Doable? Yep. Will it happen. Nope.