Moeraki crash

[caseye]

I was on a group ride around Coromandel at the weekend, and was very impressed with how many tourists (late models Corollas etc.) pulled off when they could to let us pass. Not a single ute did the same.

I was very careful riding past lookouts.

Good news that is, you out tomorrow night?
SATNR ride.

[FJRider]

The tourist one I feel is partly due to once out of any major city, the only option to get around NZ is to drive, there's no Trains, no real public transport etc. which forces people who would likely not drive, to drive.

Bullshit, They want to see and experience the "Real New Zealand" and be in control of their own chosen transportation. And I don't blame them one bit. That is exactly how I like to travel. Go where I want and stop where I want. People are not "Forced" to do anything. There are plenty of scheduled and organised Bus tours ... and Scenic rail trips in the North and South Island ... running all year round. And the "Over 60's" love them ...

To hire a rental you need a valid drivers license. All of them driving around our country spreading their GST into OUR government coffer's ... just so WE don't have to pay more ourselves.

[JimO]

To hire a rental you need a valid drivers license. All of them driving around our country spreading their GST into OUR government coffer's ... just so WE don't have to pay more ourselves.

a valid chinese licence isnt the same as a valid NZ licence

[Bonez]

a valid chinese licence isnt the same as a valid NZ licence

That is correct. You don't have to give the testing officer a bribe to get one.

[FJRider]

a valid chinese licence isnt the same as a valid NZ licence

Aside from the fact that the Chinese "Sector" may be a little depleted nowadays due to a virus ... their licenses are still legal in NZ. Also ... shitty drivers or not ... they don't often get involved in anywhere near as many fatal accidents as KIWI drivers ...

And seeing how some Kiwi drivers "Perform" on the NZ roads ... I think a few Kiwi testers were bribed too ...

[TheDemonLord]

Bullshit, They want to see and experience the "Real New Zealand" and be in control of their own chosen transportation. And I don't blame them one bit. That is exactly how I like to travel. Go where I want and stop where I want. People are not "Forced" to do anything. There are plenty of scheduled and organised Bus tours ... and Scenic rail trips in the North and South Island ... running all year round. And the "Over 60's" love them ...

To hire a rental you need a valid drivers license. All of them driving around our country spreading their GST into OUR government coffer's ... just so WE don't have to pay more ourselves.

Disagree.

I have a lot of Ex-Pat british friends, Korean friends etc. all who lived in Major cities - Most of them didn't own a Car, since they used Public Transport for everything.

Does Auckland have a rail network like the Underground or the Paris Métro? Are there regular scheduled passengers services to all the major cities? Once in the Major cities is there a reliable means of getting round?

Wellington comes pretty close, but even then, it's a bit shit.

[Burnie]

A couple of summers ago, we had a young Indian fella working with us during the university holidays. He didn't have a car license, however needed to get one to travel to work. He rang his Dad in India and presently there was an Indian drivers license in the mail for him. Enabled him to drive for 6 months, I believe, on an international licence. F#@ked up system allowing this to happen. Eventually he did get a NZ learners licence.

[FJRider]

Disagree.

I have a lot of Ex-Pat british friends, Korean friends etc. all who lived in Major cities - Most of them didn't own a Car, since they used Public Transport for everything.

Does Auckland have a rail network like the Underground or the Paris Métro? Are there regular scheduled passengers services to all the major cities? Once in the Major cities is there a reliable means of getting round?

Wellington comes pretty close, but even then, it's a bit shit.

You have friends ... ??? Who knew ...

Overseas tourists do no come here to see the pathetic Dorkland rail system. Most just leave Dorkland hours after arriving at the airport. Sometimes within minutes. The "Major cities" they want to see are Rotovegas and Queenstown. If you need to ask about scheduled services available ... you need to get out more ...

As I said ... those (most) that visit NZ do have a valid drivers license ... and are fully entitled to use it. And most do. They don't come here for the cities. They come for the wide open spaces and deserted coastlines ... and in their (tens of) thousands ... a month ... how many do you even notice .. ?? It was estimated that on NZ roads each day ... their can be 30,000 rental vehicles ... again ... how many did you notice ..??

I used to be paid to drive on most of the roads of nz ... and saw plenty of bad driving. I started blaming the visitors. Some turned out to be a mum and five kids (not buckled in) and talking on a cell phone and slapping the kids. If you think you've seen some stupid shit on the roads ... drive for a living ... 'cause you ain't seen nothing yet ...

[TheDemonLord]

You have friends ... ??? Who knew ...

Overseas tourists do no come here to see the pathetic Dorkland rail system. Most just leave Dorkland hours after arriving at the airport. Sometimes within minutes. The "Major cities" they want to see are Rotovegas and Queenstown. If you need to ask about scheduled services available ... you need to get out more ...

Right.

Think about that for a moment.

In every other major airport that I've visited - I get off the plane, I can get on a Train and go to my preferred destination. Sometimes I might even have to take an Airport shuttle bus for free to go from the Airport to the Train Station.

There's a single Train service listed, Auckland to Hamilton and it runs 3 times a week.

So, either I have to book my Flight to coincide with said train (which may or may not be convenient or even possible), I get an Intercity Bus (which takes over double the time when driven by Car) or Drive.

And that's for a big tourist destination - what if I want to go to Matamata and visit Hobbiton? I know there's a Train line that runs right through Matamata - is there a Train Service? Well if I go to Rail New Zealand - it gives multiple options.... For Bus Services!

Literally the only option to get about in NZ with any reliability or promptness is to drive. And as you say, this happens within Minutes - for people whose familiarity with roads is to have 2 lane, divided highways that are relatively straight joining the major population centres. Except now you want them to drive at Motorway speeds on a single lane, non-divided highway that in places has 25 Kph hairpins.

[FJRider]

In every other major airport that I've visited ...

Go back there ... I'm sure they miss you ...

And that's for a big tourist destination ...

Hamilton ... a major tourist destination .. ???

Literally the only option to get about in NZ with any reliability or promptness is to drive. And as you say, this happens within Minutes - for people whose familiarity with roads is to have 2 lane, divided highways that are relatively straight joining the major population centres. Except now you want them to drive at Motorway speeds on a single lane, non-divided highway that in places has 25 Kph hairpins.

There are plenty of Kiwi drivers on our roads that are out of their depth (driving wise) on anything other than quiet rural back roads.

You really have no fucking idea where all those visitors live ... what sort of roads they all are used to driving on ... or even how good a driver they all are. Your generalization just makes you look stupid.

What YOU see on our roads every day ... is a VERY small (as in tiny) percentage of the overseas visitors that are driving on our unfamiliar (to them) road system on ANY given day.

After 20 years of living / driving in Central Otago ... in the Queenstown Wanaka area ... very few (overseas visitors) caused any real issues. Accidents involving visitors were usually caused by Kiwi's (often locals) with THEIR stupid driving ...

Current statistics show ... overseas visitors are involved in about 5% of accidents nationwide. And involved in about 3% of fatal accidents. In either group ... this does not necessarily mean they were at fault.

[TheDemonLord]

Hamilton ... a major tourist destination .. ???

You clearly didn't click on the link, did you...

Or you spectacularly missed the point...

There are plenty of Kiwi drivers on our roads that are out of their depth (driving wise) on anything other than quiet rural back roads.

I'm not sure why you raise this as a point, considering that I've previously acknowledged it and am not arguing against it.

You really have no fucking idea where all those visitors live ... what sort of roads they all are used to driving on ... or even how good a driver they all are. Your generalization just makes you look stupid.

Except we do, you see, everyone that comes into the country has this thing called a passport, which with very high degree of accuracy tells us where they are from. From there, we can use that data to determine the type of road conditions they will be used to.

Who is making Whom look stupid?

What YOU see on our roads every day ... is a VERY small (as in tiny) percentage of the overseas visitors that are driving on our unfamiliar (to them) road system on ANY given day.

After 20 years of living / driving in Central Otago ... in the Queenstown Wanaka area ... very few (overseas visitors) caused any real issues. Accidents involving visitors were usually caused by Kiwi's (often locals) with THEIR stupid driving ...

Current statistics show ... overseas visitors are involved in about 5% of accidents nationwide. And involved in about 3% of fatal accidents. In either group ... this does not necessarily mean they were at fault.

And? You say that like it's an argument against my position. I've agreed that Kiwis make up the majority of accidents. The point is that tourist drives are also over-represented in crash stats which is an issue that has had no action.

Now, I'm not saying that any of the proposed solutions would be workable, but I am saying that if people are telling you there is a problem and you either ignore it or worse tell them it's not a problem - you don't make the situation any better. In fact, that is the perfect breeding ground for resentment.

My point that I was making in that post above was that NZs laughable infrastructure is a factor in forcing tourists to drive since there is no viable alternative. And should we have a functioning rail network a percentage of those visitors who have to drive (but perhaps ought not to) wouldn't- thus alleviating the problem.

[Jeeper]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/119...ed-on-dash-cam

Another example of driver not engaging brain before turning.

[FJRider]

You clearly didn't click on the link, did you...

You got me ... I didn't ...

I'm not sure why you raise this as a point, considering that I've previously acknowledged it and am not arguing against it.

About the first thing you've posted that IS correct ...

Except we do, you see, everyone that comes into the country has this thing called a passport, which with very high degree of accuracy tells us where they are from. From there, we can use that data to determine the type of road conditions they will be used to.

We ... ??? Do you see passports ??? do the passports tell you what type roads they have experience driving on .. ??? How good a driver they are and how many years of driving experience they've had .. ?? Do they tell you what roads they intend to travel on in NZ .. ??

Their passport is attributed to a Country, naming a person. It may list a place of birth. It may list places they have visited (Some countries do not stamp passports)

Who is making Whom look stupid?

Howdy stupid ...

And? You say that like it's an argument against my position. I've agreed that Kiwis make up the majority of accidents. The point is that tourist drives are also over-represented in crash stats which is an issue that has huted ad no action.

My point of view is ... (almost) everybody is giving the overseas visitors a hard time for shitty driving, even to the point of being racist about it. Naming groups that they believe are the issue AS A NATIONAL GROUP. Most just say "Another bloody overseas driver killing kiwi's ... send them all home" or similar comment ... and ignore the fact that Kiwi's are killing more kiwis than the visitors. All hyped up by the media (sells papers probably). Time more people spoke up against this trend ... but I guess it takes the heat off Kiwi shitty drivers ... and there is quite a few of them. Darwin's theory isn't working as fast as I would personally like ...

Now, I'm not saying that any of the proposed solutions would be workable, but I am saying that if the people are telling you there is a problem and you either ignore it or worse tell them it's not a problem - you don't make the situation any better. In fact, that is the perfect breeding ground for resentment.

There IS a problem . A large portion of New Zealander's are shitty drivers. And the do nothing to improve themselves. Do not even admit they might be at fault ... "it's not my fault ... it was an accident" is a common response ... have you heard that before .. ??? SAID it even .. ??

My point that I was making in that post above was that NZs laughable infrastructure is a factor in forcing tourists to drive since there is no viable alternative. And should we have a functioning rail network a percentage of those visitors who have to drive (but perhaps ought not to) wouldn't- thus alleviating the problem.

Nobody "Forces" them to drive anywhere. If bus or rail tours were wanted on a scale you suggested ... more than a few years ago ... it may well have happened. Nonetheless ... they DO come here to DRIVE around NZ. Not to take a bus (well ok ... many still do) as a base form of transport. Campervans and SUV rentals are popular worldwide. A trend that isn't going away any time soon. And New Zealand firms are cashing in (in every sense of the word) on it ...

Few (if any) changes will be made as to the regulations covering overseas driver's license validity in NZ any time soon. To many International conventions NZ is a party too ... demanding it remains as they are.

[Berries]

Another example of driver not engaging brain before turning.

Bloody tourists.

[scumdog]

Bloody tourists.

Yeah, who does she think she is, coming all the way from Cromwell and driving on OUR roads!!