Born to be mild
Instead, the re-entry efforts are now essentially solely focused on gathering evidence in the "homicide of 29 men", Little told a select committee hearing this morning.
I get a bit pissed off at the fairly regular references to this being a murder or homicide from a few of those with a profile in this case. Obviously a tragedy and there was probably negligence but FFS, murder / homicide is deliberate killing ... which this obviously wasn't.
Grow older but never grow up
Anorak
it was probably goes a fair bit beyond negligence when someone in charge of peoples safety deliberately dismisses safety concerns and misrepresents safety procedures and knowingly installs unsafe electrical equipment in gassy area, its goes far beyond maybe.Originally Posted by Oakie
The company knowingly puts a higher priority on stock price than peoples lives.
Personally i wouldn't worry about what they find they made sure no one will be held responsable by the previous Govt breaking the law to sell out the families.
WorkSafe New Zealand initially laid 12 health and safety charges against Mr Whittall, but they were dropped after more than $3 million was paid to the victims' families.
In today's decision, the Supreme Court unanimously allowed the appeal and ruled the decision to offer no evidence was "an unlawful agreement to stifle prosecution".WorkSafe New Zealand also conducted its own investigation to determine whether there had been any criminal offending or breaches of the legislation governing health and safety in employment.
That eventually led to the charges laid against Peter Whittall on the basis he had "directed, authorised ... or participated in" the breaches of the workplace safety legislation by Pike River Coal, together with allegations he breached his duties as an employee.
Those charges mainly related to the management of the risk of methane gas explosion at the mine and inadequacies in ventilation.
One of the companies contracting at the mine, VLI Drilling, pleaded guilty to three charges of breaching health and safety regulations and was ordered to pay $46,800.
Pike River Coal, which was then in receivership, was convicted on nine charges in April 2013.
Judge Farish found then that the company's failure to ventilate the mine sufficiently and to manage the risks associated with methane gas were a cause of the explosions.
It was fined $760,000 and was ordered to pay $3.41 million in reparations to the two survivors of the explosions and the families of the men who died, but the company was later wound up and no reparations were ever paid.
You seem to forget that the National party misnister of labour resigned as it was clear she was also also deemed responsable.
Not to mention the govt pushed illegal deal to avoid a court case on the matter........Wilkinson quit as labour minister yesterday after a damning royal commission of inquiry found a litany of failures by the Department of Labour (DOL) contributed to the deaths of 29 men in the mine.
A secret deal was offered by solicitor, Stuart Grieve, on 16 October 2013, that in return for payment of $3.41 million dollars by Peter Whittle, that the Crown would drop all charges against Whittle.
On 12 December 2013, Judge Jane Farish dropped all charges against Peter Whittall, and an agreed sum of $3.41 million was offered by Peter Whittle as “compensation”.
The secret deal was finally made public on 27 February.
you make out they are two years behind, Yet they have been in the dift of over a year.
But dont let that fact get in the way of a good story after all.
The entered the Drift May 22 2019.
They were delayed by equipment and new health and safety rules, not ineptitude.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/ne...ar-battle?rm=a
As i have pointed out to you on more occasions than once
The only people that promised that the mine was going to be re-entered and the bodies recovered was john Key.
The cost is a few flag referendums. likley less than the farm the national party brought the saudis or only enough to buy a few National MPsHe denied promising family members that the victims’ remains would be recovered. “I never promised anyone we would get the bodies out,” he said. “We promised family members that we would do everything we could to get the bodies out. We have done everything that we believe we possibly can.”
So did Key promise family members that the bodies would be recovered? Thanks to previously unseen video footage shown by 3 News on Monday, now we can hear for ourselves (2:10 min):
"The first thing is I’m here to give you absolute reassurance, we’re committed to getting the boys out, and nothing’s going to change that. So – when people try and tell you we’re not, they’re playing, I hate to say it, but they’re playing with your emotions."
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...rm-a-'sham'
Key said it couldnt be done safely yet it has thus far
Yet you complain its not fast enough when its a million times faster than National ever managed.Today 25 September 2014, Mr Key said re-entering the mine was not a practical option.
"We've spent millions of dollars trying to find a safe way in, but I can't
Oral Questions—Questions to Ministers
Pike River Mine Disaster—Re-entry and Recovery Operation
9. RON MARK (Deputy Leader—NZ First) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to the Pike River Mine that "What I did promise is that we could do everything we can to get those bodies out"?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes.
Ron Mark: Is he aware that non-mining contractors and personnel have been working on the reversible seal without breathing apparatus, which contradicts the risk assessment conducted by Solid Energy claiming that it could not be done, and vindicates the expert advice to the families of the 29 victims, as witnessed by Minister Barry in her last visit to the mine?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No. But what I am aware of is the advice that we have received from Solid Energy that the environment has not materially changed since the decision not to re-enter the drift was made in 2014.
Ron Mark: With recent testing results showing gas levels within the Pike River mine are safe enough for re-entry, will he now take steps to get the bodies out of the mine so that the families can have their men back and closure; if not, why not?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: As the member will be aware, the decision to enter or not re-enter the mine is not one that I think a politician should make; nor have I ever claimed I could make. We have taken the best advice, or at least Solid Energy has, as the owner and occupier of the mine. As I have always said, one of the worst things we could do is now put at risk the lives of fellow New Zealanders, as a result of the tragedy.
Hon Damien O'Connor: Why will the Prime Minister not honour his commitment to the families and fund an independent expert to assess the situation at Pike River, not rely on the advice from Solid Energy, a company that the Government has, effectively, sold out?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I believe I have met all my commitments to the families.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Geriatric hoon
Not quite. Homicide is not synonymous with murder. Homicide can be the same as murder, but may also apply to death by accident or negligence.
Assuming the miners didn't commit suicide the use of the word homicide is entirely appropriate in this instance.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Smarty pants... since ages ago
Responsible ... because of her position as Minister of labour ... did not ensure her department had ensured all relevant (and officially required) safety measures were in place in the mine. Do you think the Minister should have been charged too perhaps ... ??
If so ... with what offense ... ??
Prior to this ... to use your own quote ...
So you are saying that this "Secret deal" was made on behalf of the Crown ... ???A secret deal was offered by solicitor, Stuart Grieve, on 16 October 2013, that in return for payment of $3.41 million dollars by Peter Whittle, that the Crown would drop all charges against Whittle.
Stuart is one of New Zealand’s pre-eminent Queen’s Counsel specialising in criminal law and trial advocacy.
A long-time leader of the criminal bar, Stuart has handled some of the most significant criminal cases over a lengthy period. He defended Renee Chignell in the Plumley-Walker case, Stephen Anderson charged with the murders at Raurimu, Brad Callaghan charged with the murder of Carmen Thomas and more recently acted for Pike River’s Peter Whittall.
Your own Quotes ...
On 12 December 2013, Judge Jane Farish dropped all charges against Peter Whittall, and an agreed sum of $3.41 million was offered by Peter Whittle as “compensation”.
The secret deal was finally made public on 27 February.Actions between any person and their Lawyer in ... the course of their defense ... are usually not revealed to the public prior to cases being heard in Court.Judge Farish found then that the company's failure to ventilate the mine sufficiently and to manage the risks associated with methane gas were a cause of the explosions.
It was fined $760,000 and was ordered to pay $3.41 million in reparations to the two survivors of the explosions and the families of the men who died, but the company was later wound up and no reparations were ever paid.
The Company was wound up ... so reparations could not be paid from there. So the "Secret deal" was made. Agreed Peter Whittle should have faced charges ... but the family's of those killed and the survivors got the result Judge Farish originally ordered against the Pike River mine.
https://stuartgrieveqc.com/
When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...
Anorak
The Supreme Court unanimously allowed the appeal and ruled the decision to offer no evidence was "an unlawful agreement to stifle prosecution".
The Supreme Court, however, noted that Judge Farish did not have all of the information before her at that time.
She did not know the payment of $3.41million was on the condition that WorkSafe offer no evidence.
Whittall initially faced 12 health and safety charges. All were dropped in December 2013 even though WorkSafe believed it had enough evidence to prosecute. It said the charges were dropped because of public interest considerations
The Supreme Court noted the initial discussions on resolving the charges were originated by WorkSafe’s lawyer.
Mr Whittall’s lawyer, however, replied on the basis a voluntary payment would only be made if the charges against Mr Whittall were not proceeded with.
The letter, written by Stuart Grieve QC on October 16, 2013, suggested the agreement could be wrapped up and payment made by the third anniversary of the disaster on November 19.
Although both the Whittall camp and the MBIE have vehemently denied that the $3.41 million payment to the Pike victims in December was “blood money”, the Grieve letter makes clear that the offer was contingent on the ministry dropping the 12 charges filed against Whittall under the Health and Safety in Employment Act.
The letter, released this week to the Listener under the Official Information Act, proposed that:
• the ministry not proceed with the charges against Whittall by advising the court that no evidence would be offered in support of any charges;
• a private meeting be arranged at which Whittall would “express sympathy” on behalf of the company to the families and survivors and convey his “personal empathy and condolences”;
• each of the company’s directors at the time of the explosion be asked to attend the meeting; and
• any public statement by the MBIE and/or the Crown about the withdrawal of the charges be made in terms agreed with Grieve.
Grieve’s letter foretold a long and costly legal battle if the MBIE pressed ahead with the prosecution and indicated the former Department of Labour’s inspectorate, which had become part of the ministry, would be the butt of potentially uncomfortable evidence.
lastly guess which minister was responsible for worksafe back then? guess who resigned the day the report was released.............
guess which department had said this prior
‘I WISH TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, AGAIN, THAT THERE WAS NO SUCH ARRANGEMENT BETWEEN THE DEFENCE AND PROSECUTION.’’ – BRETT MURRAY, GENERAL MANAGER, WORKSAFE HIGH HAZARDS
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...-supreme-court
https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/cu...s-not-for-sale
https://www.al.nz/still-questions-ab...41m-pike-deal/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/991...arges-unlawful
https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/asset.../2017/mrao.pdf
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Smarty pants... since ages ago
BUT ... IT WORKED ...
So ... two wrongs DO make it right ... right ... ??
And if she did know ... she wasn't saying anything ...
If they continued with the prosecution ... they would know (Knew ??) Wittall would fight it. Win or lose ... Wittall would be unlikely to have $3.41 million available afterwards ...
They knew if they continued with the prosecution ... they then knew Wittall would fight it. Win or lose ... Wittall would be unlikely to have $3.41 million available afterwards ...
A good defense plan.
And did I mention ... IT WORKED ...
By this bit alone ... makes it quite clear ... they knew a long drawn out (and costly) court case would follow ... if they pressed with the prosecution.Grieve’s letter foretold a long and costly legal battle if the MBIE pressed ahead with the prosecution and indicated the former Department of Labour’s inspectorate, which had become part of the ministry, would be the butt of potentially uncomfortable evidence
lastly guess which minister was responsible for worksafe back then? guess who resigned the day the report was released.............
And $3.41 million went to the people that were entitled to it.
A good (all round) face saving plan ... AND ... IT WORKED ...:
Such court cases are not rare ... usually held in closed courts. Most are not read about in the court pages of any Newspaper ...
Such is the LEGAL system in most Western countries ...
When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...
Anorak
Adds to ignore.
Someone who is neither a lawyer or even mildly intelligent, yet claims to know more the the NZ Supreme court......... most would cal that a bit of a reach......
That the GOVT department with the knowledge of the govt broke the law in selling justice, then lied to the judge about and it was proven so by the NZ supreme court to have been illegal.
These are all indisputable facts as proven in the highest courts on NZ backed by documents. Also that the monister resigned the day the report was released is a fact,
But feel free to claim you know better when its clear to anyone with more intelligence than a amoeba that you do not.........
It is clear you know nxt to nothing about the event or the aftermath or court cases or even the reentry, yet lack the insight to ever comprehend you lack of knowledge before typing out enything.
Maybe you should argue a few other points i neither made inferred or even suggested, whist totally missing the point.
Then stut around the chess table claiming a win........
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Smarty pants... since ages ago
Yes please ... but could you hurry up wih it ?? ...
I call it as I see it. Just like you do (but you seem a little sort-sighted), but if you have a valid argument against what I've posted ... lets hear it. Mild abuse is not a valid argument though. Seemingly though ... it is the only (petty) argument you can resort to when you have nothing else to use.
Have you not noticed ... it's not the Government anymore ... ?? And are there any Ministers seen to have broken any the rules ... still in
Parliament .. ??
As you wish ... at your own request ...
You could post about things you know about. It is unlikely that there is any such subject though ...
But we live in the hope you might ...
When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
It's good to see the world's media is having the blinkers taken off of their eyes, with regards to the utter incompetence of our "smiling menace".
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12340991
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Forum whore
Don't overlook this: The two sisters released from border facilities early to visit their dying parent were released after positive representations from the National MP for Hutt South, Health Minister David Clark has revealed in the House.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
Hardcore Biker
But it seems a reasonable assumption that he expected them to be tested, prior to release.
Just common sense.
The mere fact Minister Clark raised it suggests deflection, on his part.
RSV Mille: No madam, its an Aprilia, not a Harley. If it were a Harley, I would be pushing it !
Forum whore
Quite right, they should have been tested prior, and the rules to that effect were in place. But some unidentified person someway down the chain ignored those rules, and we are now seeing the result, but this in no way suggests that it happened because of incompetence of the leadership, despite Muller, Hoskings and all the other right wing pundits claiming so. It was simply a fuckup by minor player, with major implications
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
The Majestic Metal Wizard
So where does the Buck Stop?
With some faceless bureaucrat?
Given how much damage the Lockdown has done to the Economy, and given that potentially this could cause a series of community transmissions that would require further action - this is not a mere 'fuckup'
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Forum whore
The buck stops at the top, OK. So who should resign/fall on their sword and what effect will it have on the outcome? Would you, in the course of your employment quit your job to make someone feel better about a mistake made by a person a lot further down the chain, even though you quitting would 1/ make no difference at all to the outcome and 2/ deprive the enterprise of your knowledge and skill while 3/ leaving the person who caused the problem in place?
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
That is what an opposition is for, raising issues from constituents, etc. Exactly the same thing would happen if the parties in power were reversed.
Those in power, or responsible for an authority, should have made damn sure that all the checks and balances were done prior to letting these two ladies loose on the general public.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
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