The 2020 Election Thread

[ellipsis]

No worries but it is nice to know some back ground

...why?...

[Bonez]

...why?...

cause.....

Did you find that link to GL1000 parts on 1into1.com useful at all?

[ellipsis]

...fairy nuff...

[Ulsterkiwi]

Well, it's more that I accuse them of spending money they didn't have on things they shouldn't be and pissing all over my rights whilst doing it - but y'know - no need to rehash that grievance.

On top of that, the current left-wing Milieu is tilting towards open-borders (see the calls for the removal of ICE in the US, extending the right of Citizens to illegal migrants in the UK and the US etc.) so I have zero faith that what they are trying to do is restore balance.



Same here - I think I've done alright, so did My Family - I'm not anti-migration, far from it - it's just that the numbers need to be balanced correctly and the skills that are being imported need to be in genuine short supply as opposed to artificially short supply.

Show me a country in the world that is not borrowing heavily to survive at the moment. Besides, the Key government also borrowed significantly and raised taxation (GST anyone?) They just offset it by not spending on increasingly overwhelmed public services, which we still need by the way.
Judith Collins is suggesting people use their Kiwisaver to start up a business. I thought National were the party of savers? Given how many small businesses fail, how is spending personal provision for retirement money going to help? Will central government pay more super to make up the difference?

To the second point, this is New Zealand and if anything, Labour policy is more towards limiting immigration. I do not see NZ as having an immigration "problem" in the way the UK and the USA seem to wet themselves about. That is more about finding a group to blame broader problems on.
"They come here and take our jobs!", yes Billy-Bob, your job as a shit shoveler at the local rodeo is being actively pursued by this Asian chap who is a trained neurosurgeon, completely see where you are coming from.
"They come here and bludge off of our system", Yes Billy-Bob, it is actually "bludge from" but however, back to the point in hand, either they are taking your job or they are bludging from the system, which is it?

You are absolutely correct however, immigration is a tool like any other, properly used, it can be beneficial both to an economy and for the enrichment of society in general.

[Dean]

My best mates are Maori you nutjob. As are nieces, nephews, brother in laws, we called the next door mates parents uncles and aunts as kids, The nephew (who is going through the BLM lov'n rebellious stage at the moment) who is Maori and is staying at our place is Maori and is allowed to have his Maori friends stay over on the weekends. We did have his Mother and sister stay for 9months but they were just inconsiderate, selfish, trouble making cunts and got kicked off our property. They are a bit like KB snowflakes as it so happens.The kids father, who is Maori is a known pedo. skipped Aust before the authorities there got hold of him. I could go on but wont bother...

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regaurds

Bonez

You have got a Maori ‘Kiwibiker nephew’ over here too Bonez

Well... part Maori...but who’s counting?

[Oakie]

What people mean when they say 'coming in and taking NZ Jobs' is a very blunt statement and doesn't really portray the nuance of it. Consider an IT business with a Vacancy, advertised for a particular salary - and no one applies. What does a business owner do?

If the pressure on the business is low, they might wait and try again, but if pressure on the business is high and they really need someone - then in accordance with supply and demand, they have to raise the price (The salary) to the point where supply is equal to demand.

Now let's run that same scenario again but with Migration as a factor - They advertise a job at a particular salary, no Kiwi applicants apply (because it's a low-ball salary offer or it's a Helldesk job that no one wants to do) but several migrants apply - Since you've increased the supply of labour, the price (in accordance with supply and demand) goes down.

When i left Immigration NZ they had outlined an upcoming amendment which may be in place now. Immigrants would be unable to come in on a low rate as each job would be allocated an 'industry pay rate range' rather than be judged on the duties undertaken in the role. If the contracted job did not meet this range, no work permit is issued.

[Katman]

Actually in posting that I got a hell of a lot off my chest so thanks for that. Been wanting to do that for a looooong time.

You probably should have just whacked one off instead.

[Dean]

You probably should have just whacked one off instead.

Well he does have a reputation for being a mass-debater...

[TheDemonLord]

Show me a country in the world that is not borrowing heavily to survive at the moment. Besides, the Key government also borrowed significantly and raised taxation (GST anyone?) They just offset it by not spending on increasingly overwhelmed public services, which we still need by the way.
Judith Collins is suggesting people use their Kiwisaver to start up a business. I thought National were the party of savers? Given how many small businesses fail, how is spending personal provision for retirement money going to help? Will central government pay more super to make up the difference?

I wasn't referring to the My Sharona virus, although that is another thing that I disagree with.

To the second point, this is New Zealand and if anything, Labour policy is more towards limiting immigration. I do not see NZ as having an immigration "problem" in the way the UK and the USA seem to wet themselves about. That is more about finding a group to blame broader problems on.
"They come here and take our jobs!", yes Billy-Bob, your job as a shit shoveler at the local rodeo is being actively pursued by this Asian chap who is a trained neurosurgeon, completely see where you are coming from.
"They come here and bludge off of our system", Yes Billy-Bob, it is actually "bludge from" but however, back to the point in hand, either they are taking your job or they are bludging from the system, which is it?

The problem for me is 2-fold, firstly - I don't trust Aunty Cindy and her activist base for a millisecond (which is entirely on me), Secondly (and perhaps more pertinent) where the UK and the US go, NZ typically follows later on. We've seen this with various social movements (Occupy, BLM etc.) So I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't too far off.

To answer Billy-Bob, a little personal story - when we moved here, My Dad, on his own Merits, could not have Migrated to NZ, (mainly due to his Age) Despite being a highly skilled migrant (Aeronautical Engineer), he didn't have a Job lined up etc.

We pretty much got in on my Mum's ticket - She was a Nurse, and based on that, the red carpet was rolled out to us. Ironically, within a week of landing here, My Dad had been headhunted by an Aviation firm (NZ's Aviation industry is incestuous as fuck - EVERYONE knows EVERYONE) and worked for a company before running his own, till he retired.

But imagine for the moment that this wasn't the case, and that my family was younger (so more points towards being allowed), Mum still being a Nurse (so pretty much guaranteed entry), but my Dad not being a highly skilled Migrant. Let's also assume that we came from a different country and that the rest of the family were blue-collar/low skilled workers - for whose jobs would they be competing? Billy-Bob isn't likely to interact with the Neurosurgeon Migrant, or the Syrian Refugee who works as in Scale-out Healthcare IT Infrastructure and was one of the nicest, hardest working people I ever had the pleasure of working with - but Billy-Bob is likely to interact with those I outlined above so that skews his perception.

To give a flipside argument - I've got 2 people where I work currently who moved out of Auckland to get more points towards getting permanent Residency and they are worried because My company might be changing it's legal name - which means they have to apply to update their work visas. Both of them are bloody fantastic - one of them is a senior in my Team, the other is in the team below us, but if he continues on the way he's going, may be eligible for a junior/trial position in my team.

Another personal anecdote - my Grandad moved here when he was in his 90s and lived here (cared for entirely by the family) till he passed away, just shy of 100 - had we not been here, there is no way in hell he would ever have been granted residency.

So Ironically, Me and my Family have done all the things that the anti-immigration crowd gripe about, however in our case, I like to think that we've upheld our part of the implied contractual bargain of integrating into NZ society, contributing to it by being net-tax payers, running a successful business etc. etc. And that is where I think the issue lies - where people perceive that the rewards of living in a country like NZ are being enjoyed, without the commensurate responsibilities.

Further to that, on the flipside I've also seen first hand people who IMO absolutely should have permanent residency here still having to piss around with INZ because of minor things (such as a Job title change resulting in them requiring a new Visa)

TL;DR - It's not perfect, it's open to abuse - by both the individual and the state, and when I come up with a better system, I'll collect my Nobel prize

You are absolutely correct however, immigration is a tool like any other, properly used, it can be beneficial both to an economy and for the enrichment of society in general.

Definitely - and I think what it boils down to is something like: When you migrate to a new country, there are a few core-principles and cultural norms that you HAVE to adopt, failure to do so will result in community friction.

In most western liberal democracies, everything that doesn't interfere or contradict those principles and norms is permissible and in most cases celebrated and encouraged.

So - Yourself, you can be as Irish as you want, Shamrock wearing, Green Clad, Guinness drinking, Leprechaun shenanigans-ing etc. so long as you don't violate the key cultural norms (such as speaking English, respecting the rule of law etc.)

[jasonu]

Show me a country in the world that is not borrowing heavily to survive at the moment. Besides, the Key government also borrowed significantly and raised taxation (GST anyone?) They just offset it by not spending on increasingly overwhelmed public services, which we still need by the way.
Judith Collins is suggesting people use their Kiwisaver to start up a business. I thought National were the party of savers? Given how many small businesses fail, how is spending personal provision for retirement money going to help? Will central government pay more super to make up the difference?

To the second point, this is New Zealand and if anything, Labour policy is more towards limiting immigration. I do not see NZ as having an immigration "problem" in the way the UK and the USA seem to wet themselves about. That is more about finding a group to blame broader problems on.
"They come here and take our jobs!", yes Billy-Bob, your job as a shit shoveler at the local rodeo is being actively pursued by this Asian chap who is a trained neurosurgeon, completely see where you are coming from.
"They come here and bludge off of our system", Yes Billy-Bob, it is actually "bludge from" but however, back to the point in hand, either they are taking your job or they are bludging from the system, which is it?

You are absolutely correct however, immigration is a tool like any other, properly used, it can be beneficial both to an economy and for the enrichment of society in general.

It's the ILLEGAL part of illegal immigrant that pisses a lot of people off. Come here to live if you want but please do it legally or fuck off.

[pete376403]

It's the ILLEGAL part of illegal immigrant that pisses a lot of people off. Come here to live if you want but please do it legally or fuck off.

Like Melania Knauss f'rinstance?
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/5/135338...egal-immigrant

[jasonu]

Like Melania Knauss f'rinstance?
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/5/135338...egal-immigrant

Sure why not.

[mashman]

Well, the first Meet The Candidates went rather well I thought. Had some fun, told plenty of truth, too much in far too many ways but hey, the truth is like that, and look forwards to doing it again at the next Meet The Candidates. Don't think much to the opposition, but there's no accounting for taste heh.

[Swoop]

So, TVNZ and liarbour are not releasing the latest Colmar Brunton poll...

Possibly like the herald's poll that was taken down a few days ago. When the reality does not match the rhetoric of the regressive leftists' things have to be changed. I wonder when they will start using their chinese communist overlord's line of "You have mis-spoken!"?

[Oakie]

So Labour promise to increase the Minimum Wage and double sick leave entitlements. Nice of them to spend employers' money instead of the taxpayers on this promise.