The 2020 Election Thread

[husaberg]

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star...s-covid-muller

ational leader Todd Muller says waiting for a vaccine or for other countries to eliminate Covid-19 before the border reopens would leave New Zealand "on its knees".
Speaking to the Wellington Chamber of Commerce on Monday Muller called for the Government to describe its thinking about the conditions under which it would look to relax border restrictions..
"The New Zealand strategy cannot be that we stay locked up until everybody else gets to zero or we have a vaccine. This country would be on its knees if that was the case."
Earlier in his brief leadership, Muller said the National Party believed Australian skiers should be able to come to New Zealand this winter.

April


6th May
He said the Government was taking too conservative an approach to moving out of lockdown, and business owners and workers were suffering needlessly.

[Black Knight]

Recently on news items the terminology "returning residents" has started to be used,this in relations to returning "kiwis" being allowed to return "home".So,I assume this means anyone with a residents visa can come into NZ-No wonder there are 40,000 plus immigrants coming through the borders.Take some time and see how one obtains a residents visa and you will see why so many non english speaking people are wandering our streets,it is scarey.I thought the borders were for NZ passport holders and those with NZ Citizenship,not for someone to come here,buy a house and install their offspring (or leave it vacant) and piss off back to their own country, selling said property at a later date for a tax free capital gain.Also bringing in parents,grandparents,partners and siblings.Anyone got any comments to make on this?

[Swoop]

Remind me again how keen National were to see the borders opened back up.

Well, difficult to "open up" a border that hasn't been closed [properly].
Taxcinda will put some nonsense spin onto that, like all of the other cock-ups her inept government have caused.

I'd have thought you would be quite interested in how well she is managing to gag the media, on multiple issues that are quite relevant to their performance, or lack thereof.

[Katman]

I'd have thought you would be quite interested in how well she is managing to gag the media, on multiple issues that are quite relevant to their performance, or lack thereof.

That sounds like a conspiracy.

Do tell us more.

[Oakie]

I will make a bold prediction. The New Zealand Public Party (those conspiracy theory darlings), if they do not get into parliament by getting 5% of the vote, will allege that the election was rigged by a combination of Jacinda, a secret Labour/National agreement, Bill Gates, The New World Order, Communist China, the U.N. and shape-shifting alien lizards, and demand ... something.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Recently on news items the terminology "returning residents" has started to be used,this in relations to returning "kiwis" being allowed to return "home".So,I assume this means anyone with a residents visa can come into NZ-No wonder there are 40,000 plus immigrants coming through the borders.Take some time and see how one obtains a residents visa and you will see why so many non english speaking people are wandering our streets,it is scarey.I thought the borders were for NZ passport holders and those with NZ Citizenship,not for someone to come here,buy a house and install their offspring (or leave it vacant) and piss off back to their own country, selling said property at a later date for a tax free capital gain.Also bringing in parents,grandparents,partners and siblings.Anyone got any comments to make on this?

I came to NZ in 2008. I came from Northern Ireland which means I speak English, after a fashion. I had to jump through a lot of hoops and spend a lot of money to gain my residency. I had to demonstrate I was in decent health and did not represent an undesirable burden on the health system, I had to provide evidence I did not have a criminal history, I had to prove I had stable employment paying above a minimum level (a fair bit higher than minimum wage)and that employment was a good long term prospect. I had to do this before I was allowed in and again 2 years later. I obtained citizenship a couple of years ago, something I count a privilege and am intensely proud of. There were numerous hoops to jump through to have my application accepted, and that is exactly how it should be.
Your characterisation of immigrants with residency “wandering the streets,it is scarey” is, if I may say so, inflammatory, inaccurate, ill informed and unhelpful. Residency is not handed out that easily. There are many schemes whereby immigrants may come and work here, that does not make them residents. There are ways for non-citizens and non-residents to come and buy property. You have Mr Key and the neo-liberal fascination with letting “market forces” drive the distribution of wealth and the price and patterns of property ownership to thank for your stated example. Everyone in this country is an immigrant to some degree or other. If NZ is home to anyone, why would you not allow them to come home?


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[Bonez]

That sounds like a conspiracy.

Do tell us more.

I'd like to know as well.

Surely some one from the so called indigenous peoples, whose fore fathers were immigrants to this country according to there own fairy stories and use the call white folk pakeha moaris, would be trumpeting it from a blow horn by now.

And for those who think I'm being racist here are some carvings my white trash darling with arthritis has done and we have on display at home..There are a lot more.

And no, it is NOT cultural misappropriation. Connie was trained and mentored by an old Maori chap. His other brown skin coloured male students were really pissed off when they saw what a middle aged, dumpy, blue eyed blonde pakeha chick could do.

[Oakie]

There were numerous hoops to jump through to have my application accepted, and that is exactly how it should be. Residency is not handed out that easily.

In my old HR job i used to try and help our work permited staff with their residency applications and none of them were ever easily obtained. More were probably denied than accepted. I also worked in Immmigration NZ briefly and can verify that no one just gets to walk into NZ. It's expensive and there are many standards to be met. It's only getting harder too with income tests becoming tougher to meet and work permit terms being shortened.

The other thing I really had my eyes opened to there is that it's not a case of work permitted 'immigrants coming in and taking NZ jobs'. They only get in when it's proven that no suitable Kiwi's have applied for the particular job they are looking at.

I don't know if it's well known either that when a person on a work permit takes a job for say one year, at the end of that year the job has to be re-advertised and if a suitable Kiwi applies, the person with the work permit is out of a job and will most likely have to return to their homeland. The employer has to provide a list to INZ detailing why each Kiwi applicant is not suitable.

[sugilite:Me]

I'd like to know as well.

Surely some one from the so called indigenous peoples, whose fore fathers were immigrants to this country according to there own fairy stories and use the call white folk pakeha moaris, would be trumpeting it from a blow horn by now.

And for those who think I'm being racist here are some carvings my white trash darling with arthritis has done and we have on display at home..There are a lot more.

And no, it is NOT cultural misappropriation. Connie was trained and mentored by an old Maori chap. His other brown skin coloured male students were really pissed off when they saw what a middle aged, dumpy, blue eyed blonde pakeha chick could do.

Yeah, those carvings totally prove you are not a racist man

[TheDemonLord]

The other thing I really had my eyes opened to there is that it's not a case of work permitted 'immigrants coming in and taking NZ jobs'. They only get in when it's proven that no suitable Kiwi's have applied for the particular job they are looking at.

In my field of IT, we do get a fair amount of the entry-level jobs taken up by Migrants, Some of them are bloody fantastic and some of them are bloody crap.

What people mean when they say 'coming in and taking NZ Jobs' is a very blunt statement and doesn't really portray the nuance of it. Consider an IT business with a Vacancy, advertised for a particular salary - and no one applies. What does a business owner do?

If the pressure on the business is low, they might wait and try again, but if pressure on the business is high and they really need someone - then in accordance with supply and demand, they have to raise the price (The salary) to the point where supply is equal to demand.

Now let's run that same scenario again but with Migration as a factor - They advertise a job at a particular salary, no Kiwi applicants apply (because it's a low-ball salary offer or it's a Helldesk job that no one wants to do) but several migrants apply - Since you've increased the supply of labour, the price (in accordance with supply and demand) goes down.

When there is no migration, the shortage of labour drives up wages, an excess supply of labour drives down wages - the Company gets' to go to INZ, with hand-on-heart and say 'but we can't get any Kiwis to do this job' - whilst omitting that the reason they can't is because they aren't paying the market rate for Kiwis.

In the UK, this has been terrible for some areas and was a key factor in certain regions that were traditional working-class Labour strongholds voting Tory due to the wage stagnation caused by Immigration.

To be clear though - a properly manage Migration system is a net-positive, but let's also be clear that certain business sectors and certain jobs have their wages kept low due to a greater supply of labour than if there wasn't Migration.

[Ulsterkiwi]

In my field of IT, we do get a fair amount of the entry-level jobs taken up by Migrants, Some of them are bloody fantastic and some of them are bloody crap.

What people mean when they say 'coming in and taking NZ Jobs' is a very blunt statement and doesn't really portray the nuance of it. Consider an IT business with a Vacancy, advertised for a particular salary - and no one applies. What does a business owner do?

If the pressure on the business is low, they might wait and try again, but if pressure on the business is high and they really need someone - then in accordance with supply and demand, they have to raise the price (The salary) to the point where supply is equal to demand.

Now let's run that same scenario again but with Migration as a factor - They advertise a job at a particular salary, no Kiwi applicants apply (because it's a low-ball salary offer or it's a Helldesk job that no one wants to do) but several migrants apply - Since you've increased the supply of labour, the price (in accordance with supply and demand) goes down.

When there is no migration, the shortage of labour drives up wages, an excess supply of labour drives down wages - the Company gets' to go to INZ, with hand-on-heart and say 'but we can't get any Kiwis to do this job' - whilst omitting that the reason they can't is because they aren't paying the market rate for Kiwis.

In the UK, this has been terrible for some areas and was a key factor in certain regions that were traditional working-class Labour strongholds voting Tory due to the wage stagnation caused by Immigration.

To be clear though - a properly manage Migration system is a net-positive, but let's also be clear that certain business sectors and certain jobs have their wages kept low due to a greater supply of labour than if there wasn't Migration.

Your explanation makes sense.
Is that not kind of what the previous government under Mr Key really encouraged then? Seems to me immigration as they used it, served to reduce wage costs for business in the way you described but pushed up property prices and rental prices because of supply issues, again following your description of the model. Infrastructure was not built up to service a growing population and public services did not keep pace.
So who benefited? The already fluid and financially successful it would appear.
Then the current government tries to restore some balance, can't do it in the stupidly short parliamentary term we have here and is accused of stifling the economy, not building enough yadda yadda yadda.

Clearly I benefited from an immigration opportunity, so that undoubtedly influences my perspective. That said, I came here and initially earned less to do the same job I was doing back in the UK. If properly managed, I would suggest immigration could be used to improve opportunities for all, not widen the gap between the "have"s and "will-never-really-get-the-same-opportunities-to-have"s

[Bonez]

Yeah, those carvings totally prove you are not a racist man

My best mates are Maori you nutjob. As are nieces, nephews, brother in laws, we called the next door mates parents uncles and aunts as kids, The nephew (who is going through the BLM lov'n rebellious stage at the moment) who is Maori and is staying at our place is Maori and is allowed to have his Maori friends stay over on the weekends. We did have his Mother and sister stay for 9months but they were just inconsiderate, selfish, trouble making cunts and got kicked off our property. They are a bit like KB snowflakes as it so happens.The kids father, who is Maori is a known pedo. skipped Aust before the authorities there got hold of him. I could go on but wont bother...

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regaurds

Bonez

[TheDemonLord]

Your explanation makes sense.
Is that not kind of what the previous government under Mr Key really encouraged then? Seems to me immigration as they used it, served to reduce wage costs for business in the way you described but pushed up property prices and rental prices because of supply issues, again following your description of the model. Infrastructure was not built up to service a growing population and public services did not keep pace.
So who benefited? The already fluid and financially successful it would appear.

No argument from me there, This is something that multiple governments not just here or in the UK have done and it has been done across the political Spectrum.

Then the current government tries to restore some balance, can't do it in the stupidly short parliamentary term we have here and is accused of stifling the economy, not building enough yadda yadda yadda.

Well, it's more that I accuse them of spending money they didn't have on things they shouldn't be and pissing all over my rights whilst doing it - but y'know - no need to rehash that grievance.

On top of that, the current left-wing Milieu is tilting towards open-borders (see the calls for the removal of ICE in the US, extending the right of Citizens to illegal migrants in the UK and the US etc.) so I have zero faith that what they are trying to do is restore balance.

Clearly I benefited from an immigration opportunity, so that undoubtedly influences my perspective. That said, I came here and initially earned less to do the same job I was doing back in the UK. If properly managed, I would suggest immigration could be used to improve opportunities for all, not widen the gap between the "have"s and "will-never-really-get-the-same-opportunities-to-have"s

Same here - I think I've done alright, so did My Family - I'm not anti-migration, far from it - it's just that the numbers need to be balanced correctly and the skills that are being imported need to be in genuine short supply as opposed to artificially short supply.

[sugilite:Me]

My best mates are Maori you nutjob. As are nieces, nephews, brother in laws, we called the next door mates parents uncles and aunts as kids, The nephew (who is going through the BLM lov'n rebellious stage at the moment) who is Maori and is staying at our place is Maori and is allowed to have his Maori friends stay over on the weekends. We did have his Mother and sister stay for 9months but they were just inconsiderate, selfish, trouble making cunts and got kicked off our property. Their father, who is Maori is a known pedo. skipped Aust before the authorities there got hold of him.I could go on but wont bother...

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regaurds

Bonez

sheesh, sorry for agreeing with you - I was not asking for your whole whakapapa mate

[Bonez]

sheesh, sorry for agreeing with you - I was not asking for your whole whakapapa mate

No worries but it is nice to know some back ground

Actually in posting that I got a hell of a lot off my chest so thanks for that. Been wanting to do that for a looooong time.