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Thread: Are you 'essential' or not?

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaferRides View Post
    I do wonder how many employees will see the full amount. What happens if the business is wound up in a few weeks?

    I'm not sure about the tax implications for my business either, so will apply in April. .
    No tax implications. It's not regarded as revenue. I finally read the instructions this morning.
    Grow older but never grow up

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimO View Post
    LOL says the man with a kitchen
    supply of bottled gas is essential service, potable water, hot water from cylinder, sanitation and sewage all essential. Leaking tap washer not essential. Having said that, you still need a relevant tradie to brave leaving isolation, be prepared to be ravaged by the virus and turn up.

  3. #138
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    The only example if a carpenter as essential service on the MBIE site is securing of roof or structure where there is immediate threat to human health or safety, and that is only an example so not limiting to but gives the point.
    However if work is in progress and the building is actually occupied then there is a case that it could be essential.
    So JimO if you query MBIE or your Council you may have a case.
    Being a Registered and Licenced tradie I get guidance and updates from MBIE, and they are prone to change due to everyone being blindsided by this situation.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    No it appears that he doesnt like you because you speak like a deluded hypocrite. Then you Interdesperse it with as if you think you are so clever. But nobody thinks that.

    Really .

    Nobody thinks you are clever. We all think you are quite simple and deluded.

    Haha chuckle, oh no, it's so funny you all are sheeple.

    Bollocks. Buy a motorcycle and come back when you are enlightened.
    Oh no. No one likes me. What a surprise. I might develop a complex about it if any of you could put a valid argument together. Butcha can't, ya'll get all personal, ooooo it's mashie trying to be smart, get him ... and you guys actually think you're insulting me. You're not. I'll say it again. You are ignoring the evidence.

    Well at least you see his, and your, clear bias. Critical thinkers don't give a shit who is providing them with information, they simply accept the information and deal with it to a point of shared understanding, instead of throwing their own clear bias into the mix and thererfore limiting any form of critical thinking that they think they're employing.

    @enlightened: Lemme see now. WTF is mashie doing here when all he gets is abuse... hmmm, coz I like to laugh at just how stupid you all given that you mistake me for the evidence. I wish I was as enlightened like you guys, then maybe you'd accept me and like me more, I really need to learn from you, your abuse, hostility, bias, misunderstanding, exceptionally poor critical thinking ability, and no taste in sandwiches, really puts the shine on this enlightenment thing and makes me wanna be more like you normal guys, just coz I need to fit in and seem as intelligent as you.

    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Oh no. No one likes me. What a surprise. I might develop a complex about it if any of you could put a valid argument together. need to fit in and seem as intelligent as you.

    Look man, just shut the fuck up already. No one gives a fuck how clever you are or are not.

    Nobody wants to take the risk of going to your cashless society.

    More importantly, no one wants to hear about it either.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Look man, just shut the fuck up already. No one gives a fuck how clever you are or are not.

    Nobody wants to take the risk of going to your cashless society.

    More importantly, no one wants to hear about it either.
    Certainly seems that way. As I said to Crasher many years ago when he sent something similar to the above through PM. I do not class myself more or less clever than anyone. Tis you guys that go around making those decisions for me, I just troll the fuck out of you when you start making such stupid assumptions... but hey, by all means feel free to continue not responding to anything I post, eh Son.

    Some do.

    Some also find it important.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  7. #142
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    Vicki is still essential and will continue to be - shes up at 2am and 3am putting stock on supermarket shelves.. Its been crazy how much stock has sold through...

    I'm working from home triging jobs and finalising FY20. We still have teams out there building stuff and making connections in the network. The amount of call and internet traffic has changed dramatically as well as where its coming from so networks need rebalancing. Also many new organizations spring up to take calls etc.

    Not sure how long all this will last of course...

    Stay safe

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Nope. Do you see that you must have misunderstood something?
    You say I misunderstood something
    yet
    you demonstrate (by your own words) I've understood it better than you.

    Again, If there is no limit to demand (in the form of Price) then Demand will always outstrip supply, you will get shortages and then Consumer choice is diminished.
    If you decide to ration out the Supply, then consumer choice is diminished.
    If you decide that some products are 'Useless' and therefore won't be produced, then consumer choice is diminished.
    If you don't allow people to bid with their assets/resources/money, then consumer choice is diminished.

    This is the same thing that happens at both the Micro and Macro level, invariably because of Humans and Human nature.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    No it appears that he doesnt like you because you speak like a deluded hypocrite. Then you Interdesperse it with as if you think you are so clever. But nobody thinks that.

    Really .

    Nobody thinks you are clever. We all think you are quite simple and deluded.

    Haha chuckle, oh no, it's so funny you all are sheeple.

    Bollocks. Buy a motorcycle and come back when you are enlightened.
    To be fair, it's not that I don't like Mashman, I dislike very few people, I have a few problems with the RBE solution he proposes, the first is because it is derived from the same Marxist school of thought that simply doesn't work, relies on Tabula Rasa and inevitibly devolves into tyranny and piles of corpses whilst trying to achieve 'Utopia'

    My second issue is perhaps more poignant: For all it's flaws, there's a couple of nuggets in there that are worth considering and seriously. The problem is that the proponents of it have such a poor grasp on economic fundamentals that they never develop those few good ideas further into something that might be viable.

    Without getting into too much detail - there is a large number of Businesses that put up with operational inefficiencies because the cost of rectifying those inefficiences is either too great for the initial CAPEX or that the predicted gains in efficiency over the lifetime and volume of the operational use does not offset the cost.

    Mashie will then loudly proclaim at this point "See! Money is the problem, get rid of Money and no cost and then Utopia, TDL proves me right blah blah blah".

    But Mashie forgets, that Cost is merely a placeholder for determining the relative value in the market of scarce (ie Finite) Resource. Consider Time - Manhours - None of us live forever, and so there is a finite number of Hours we can devote to working - And more than that, not everyone's Time is of equal value. Not everyone can do everything else. For example - if the requirement is to run a package from point A to point B as fast as possible, then my time is no where near as valuable as say Usain Bolts or Eliud Kipchoges.

    If we say that every Doctors office now has their own Air Ambulance service to transport patients, Someone has to build those Helicopters (which takes a lot of Manhours and requires specialists which are rare) it takes someone to maintain them (also Manhours, specialists), it takes a pilot (Manhours, Specialists).

    Even if you remove money, those things still have a cost - and that is the part that the RBE fails to take into account.

    That said, the idea that by allowing businesses to access tech that is normally priced out of their reach to drive efficiency and economic growth does have some merit.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    You say I misunderstood something
    yet
    you demonstrate (by your own words) I've understood it better than you.
    And I Am telling you right now, in this instant, that you have misunderstood those words, not only because you have a bias against anything I say (you like to argue remember trollylolly), but you have no idea what it is that I've been speaking about from day 1 due to the fact that you haven't listened when it has been explained to you that our understandings are not the same. This was evidenced over a considerable amount of time. Given that it is me saying that I Am passing on some new insight that I was made aware of, you claiming to know what I Am stating is singularly the most stupid revelation you have come up with yet... And believe me, for Dave, I know what I mean when I say it, and when I say that's not what I meant, well, yeah, that kid of is the truth.

    You ripped your own undies a long long long time ago, I simply accepted that that's what you wanted (trolled the shit out of you really doesn't cover it) and tried to apply a wedgie technique to dislodge your head from your arse. Alas I failed. As I do in everything eh eh eh eh eh.

    Have fun sweetums, and make sure your next post is a goodun, because it is highly likely the last one I'll ever read, and whilst I don't read your posts, I kind of admire your dogged relentlessness whilst trying to scroll past your posts... because there is a dedication in trying to get ones view across using so many words. You still evidence yourself as being able to hear what is being said/written though.

    So what is it to be? Oh shit! Really? Or Nah, that can't be true (despite me stating it over and over in post after post, you know, evidence). There was no honour in me doing that other than to give you the chance to vent and for me to get information out there that others might find interesting enough to think longer and harder about it.

    You served your purpose well, and I both thank you for that and apologise for putting you through something that you don't yet understand. Best of luck mate.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldrider View Post
    However if work is in progress and the building is actually occupied then there is a case that it could be essential.

    Being a Registered and Licenced tradie I get guidance and updates from MBIE, and they are prone to change due to everyone being blindsided by this situation.
    Work in prgress with the place being occupied might suggest otherwise ... unless they were going next door to shower/toilet/cook etc ...

    From the tradies I work with (I'm still working) the health & safety issue is the guide (note guide).

    Machinery and staff still functioning safely ... it gets left. Most though just do what needs to be done.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Again, If there is no limit to demand (in the form of Price) then Demand will always outstrip supply, you will get shortages and then Consumer choice is diminished.
    If you decide to ration out the Supply, then consumer choice is diminished.
    If you decide that some products are 'Useless' and therefore won't be produced, then consumer choice is diminished.
    If you don't allow people to bid with their assets/resources/money, then consumer choice is diminished.

    This is the same thing that happens at both the Micro and Macro level, invariably because of Humans and Human nature.
    If there is demand for an item ... for some PRICE is never an issue. The less wealthy either get less or do without/find a cheaper solution.

    Our society is based on giving consumers choice with the products they can buy. If product does not sell or is less popular ... production gets reduced to meet sales. Thus although based on consumer choice ... reduced production with some products is CAUSED by consumer choice. You can hardly complain that it's not there anymore ... if you (or enough people) never use it.

    If supply of "Popular" items is in short supply ... retailers usually limit supply to customers by number of items ... rather than price (Price gauging is officially frowned on). This is common now in the supermarkets I've been in. Other choices are there still ... but the usually higher priced items often are.

    When times get tough (and we're not there yet [or even close]) lack of "Consumer choice" is not a bad thing. And in good times ... a mere luxury.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul in NZ View Post
    Vicki is still essential and will continue to be - shes up at 2am and 3am putting stock on supermarket shelves.. Its been crazy how much stock has sold through...
    Just one of the local supermarkets here went from getting 45 pallets of product per day to over 120 in the lead up to the lock down
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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    If there is demand for an item ... for some PRICE is never an issue. The less wealthy either get less or do without/find a cheaper solution.

    Our society is based on giving consumers choice with the products they can buy. If product does not sell or is less popular ... production gets reduced to meet sales. Thus although based on consumer choice ... reduced production with some products is CAUSED by consumer choice. You can hardly complain that it's not there anymore ... if you (or enough people) ever use it.

    If supply of "Popular" items is in short supply ... retailers usually limit supply to customers by number of items ... rather than price (Price gauging is officially frowned on). This is common now in the supermarkets I've been in. Other choices are there still ... but the usually higher priced items often are.

    When times get tough (and we're not there yet [or even close]) lack of "Consumer choice" is not a bad thing. And in good times ... a mere luxury.
    He is doing exactly the same thing that economists, who have been listened to date, have done. They have ignored the pale blue dot in infinite space problem, which somewhat invalidates their economic models somewhat. You cannot explain anything to anyone who is not aware of all of the parameters, let alone someone who relies wholly on a discipline that is evidenced to have led us to where we are today by thinking that way. Pretty simple really.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakie View Post
    No tax implications. It's not regarded as revenue. I finally read the instructions this morning.
    Application done and I have read the declaration carefully and checked that revenue will be at least 30% down in April. It will be much more than that.

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