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Thread: Tf 125 motor bucket thingy

  1. #16
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    Yep.. 19mm big end, why change it? I am not bothered about what I end up using just after some guidance on what I should be doing with the piston/rod

    So I was looking at the motor today half assembled and came to come to the conclusion after reading some bits and pieces that i should be looking to machine the reed valve down and cut the back of the cylinder and put a 45 degree bevel on the crank to help stuck fuel into the transfer ports, is this in the right track? I had to assemble half some bits to visualize what was happening Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    Yep.. 19mm big end, why change it? ]
    19mm is only used by suzuki on a few bikes so the better silver flat cadge big ends are not available.
    build it right once it will last. The better parts are not expensive likely cheaper than oem
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  3. #18
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    Good call on the big end its reasonably worn, couldn't sleep so went and pressed it apart. I swear the press is the most scary pieces of equipment in the garage.

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    Good call on the big end its reasonably worn, couldn't sleep so went and pressed it apart. I swear the press is the most scary pieces of equipment in the garage.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cool stuff before you machine the pin hole read through the catalogs and decide what piston and rod combo you want, preferably chose a inexpensive easily obtainable piston and rod combo to suit
    I would have to check with Ken but if the cylinder is on std bore you might be able to use a KT100S overbore piston that is available up to i think 56.5mm? but they are not just restricted to .25mm sizes you can hone to bore.
    if not you could go with a rod combo that suits 15mm pin pistons and use any of the modern overbore pistons.

    i will give you some links
    https://www.tkrj.co.jp/
    http://www.mitaka.co.uk/MDP.htm
    http://www.mitaka.co.uk/pistons.htm
    http://www.pro-x.com/wp-content/uplo.../2015_TECH.pdf
    http://www.mingyang-group.2u.com.tw/pdf/CAPT-conrod.pdf
    http://www.mingyang-group.2u.com.tw/...Motorcycle.pdf
    https://www.royalrods.com.tw/ebook/index.htm
    http://www.strikeproducts.com.au/technical.asp
    Click image for larger version. 

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    as a rule modern 125 are 54x54 and have 15mm SM pins
    older ones are 16mm pin for Yam and 22mm big ends With SE 14-15mm for others with 20m or 22mm BE pins depending on year.
    kawaskis have a lot of dished tops.
    the tkrj site will list the std dimensions for the ts125 your engine is based on.

    vertex and Woosner offer pistons as well as Weisco try an go with something common
    use the catalogs for sizes rather than makes.

    the pro X catalog has the silver lated flat cadges you want at resonable prices.
    on a 50mm stroke these will run all day at 14K

    Is the crankpin length 52 or 56mm?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  5. #20
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    .
    I think the TS rod is 100mm CC.

    If its any help. Team ESE have used these rods:-

    RGV250 105mm CC
    RD 350 110mm CC
    RD 400 115mm CC

    And all of them have done a few miles being spun up to 13,000 rpm on the track.

    The rod kits all have 22mm big end pins and can run the silver plated flat big end bearing. Little end bearings can be found to suit 14,15 and 16mm pins.

  6. #21
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    The pin is 56mm on a TF the rod is 100MM CC

    You fellas know a lot more then me on this subject, what would you recommend for rod and piston?

    I also dont have the tooling to bore the crank out, does anybody here have the tools to do it? I will get somebody else to bore the hole out.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    The pin is 56mm on a TF the rod is 100MM CC

    You fellas know a lot more then me on this subject, what would you recommend for rod and piston?

    I also dont have the tooling to bore the crank out, does anybody here have the tools to do it? I will get somebody else to bore the hole out.
    I just parted a crank and the prox rod runs a stepped pin . Makes it easy to press together
    i'm over buckets

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    The pin is 56mm on a TF the rod is 100MM CC

    You fellas know a lot more then me on this subject, what would you recommend for rod and piston?

    I also dont have the tooling to bore the crank out, does anybody here have the tools to do it? I will get somebody else to bore the hole out.
    if you wish to run a 22mm pin as the TS185er has one of those
    then run any rod that suit the piston you will run.


    i am not sure i have a CR125M one to measure for length.
    okay they are 55mm long 20mm
    They run 100mm centers as well and a 14mm pin
    They only have a copper M cage though so that needs to be replaced with a silver flat cadge from pro x .
    for a 20mm big end pin and 14 or 16mm pin you can run a GT250 m/a or K/l s they have these sizes and are 110mm long but they still need the cage changed.

    there are plenty of others in between for length.
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    I would suggest find the piston you want and work backwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #24
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    Cr125 piston vs tf Click image for larger version. 

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    i'm over buckets

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    Cr125 piston vs tf Click image for larger version. 

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    The early cr ones are not reed so pre 78 at least is 56mm and long skirts. They went cylinder reed around then 78-79 and i think 54mm in about 84-85 then case reed about 87.
    the CR125M pistons i have are very much like a H100 in dimensions only bigger bore and thinner rings
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    Cr125 piston vs tf Click image for larger version. 

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    The CR piston with the cutaway is probably OK. It will increase the port timing but the timing stock is horrendously conservative, as suits the bike's original purpose.

    In my opinion it would be better to use a full skirt piston and take the piston port down to achieve the desired port timing. This will result in increased port area as well which it needs. Once the piston port is where it should be you will probably have gone into the reed valve area by busting out the bottom of the barrel. I had great success in completely removing the reed valve and filling the whole area with devcon. The end result was 200 degree piston port timing, plenty of port area, nice smooth intake port matched to a round slide 32mm Mikuni.

    You are going to have to plan the whole thing before you start machining and grinding. If you machine the piston port down and then drop the cylinder because of a short piston causing excessive transfer port timing you end up with excessive piston port timing. A bit of devcon would fix it but I prefer to have as little filler in the intake port as possible, in case it falls out. The exhaust ports in those cylinders is a bit limited as well. The main problem with the ports though is the old style transfer ports and the angles entering the cylinder. If you correct the roof angles towards modern numbers it will raise the port which isn't a bad thing and scavenging will improve markedly, helped by a good pipe.

    In order I would look at:
    Rod and piston combination
    Transfer porting
    Transfer timing or T/A if you want to get that serious. T/A is Time/Area.
    Exhaust timing or T/A
    Piston port timing

    The exhaust port is already too big at the pipe flange. If you do port it to get the port timing, only take out the minimum amount at the cylinder face and don't remove alloy further down the port. With the single exhaust port there is going to be a limitation on the blowdown T/A. Blowdown is how much the exhaust port is open before the transfers open. Raising the transfers will increase the transfer T/A but reduce blowdown T/A. Raising the revs will increase the blowdown T/A required.

    It's going to do your head in at the start.

    Do you have an update for the 750?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    The CR piston with the cutaway is probably OK. It will increase the port timing but the timing stock is horrendously conservative, as suits the bike's original purpose.

    In my opinion it would be better to use a full skirt piston and take the piston port down to achieve the desired port timing. This will result in increased port area as well which it needs. Once the piston port is where it should be you will probably have gone into the reed valve area by busting out the bottom of the barrel. I had great success in completely removing the reed valve and filling the whole area with devcon. The end result was 200 degree piston port timing, plenty of port area, nice smooth intake port matched to a round slide 32mm Mikuni.

    You are going to have to plan the whole thing before you start machining and grinding. If you machine the piston port down and then drop the cylinder because of a short piston causing excessive transfer port timing you end up with excessive piston port timing. A bit of devcon would fix it but I prefer to have as little filler in the intake port as possible, in case it falls out. The exhaust ports in those cylinders is a bit limited as well. The main problem with the ports though is the old style transfer ports and the angles entering the cylinder. If you correct the roof angles towards modern numbers it will raise the port which isn't a bad thing and scavenging will improve markedly, helped by a good pipe.

    In order I would look at:
    Rod and piston combination
    Transfer porting
    Transfer timing or T/A if you want to get that serious. T/A is Time/Area.
    Exhaust timing or T/A
    Piston port timing

    The exhaust port is already too big at the pipe flange. If you do port it to get the port timing, only take out the minimum amount at the cylinder face and don't remove alloy further down the port. With the single exhaust port there is going to be a limitation on the blowdown T/A. Blowdown is how much the exhaust port is open before the transfers open. Raising the transfers will increase the transfer T/A but reduce blowdown T/A. Raising the revs will increase the blowdown T/A required.

    It's going to do your head in at the start.

    Do you have an update for the 750?
    Is is alot to take in but I will just have to sit down and do some more reading on the subject, but thanks for the Input it is much appreciated!

    The 750 hasn't been touched for about 10 months we only recently finished a big renovation on the house and got 3 phase in the shed for my toys I have had no spare time or money to get started on the bike again, I need to throw wads on cash at it now, like get the seat done a decent ignition system brake rotors engine internals lights finish the fabrication then tear it down and finish everything properly, also I am not too happy with the exhaust collector its messy and needs to be redone. This bucket project came about because I was at the go kart track one weekend and it spiked my interest got the frame and motor for a couple of hundred and thought it would be a quick side project before I got stuck into the 750 again but it has turned into more then that as usual.. no big deal I need to sort some other bits in the shed and get parts to spark abit of motivation again.. it was always a long term project with no real end date I will get it finished but am in no rush to push and be unhappy with the result. I like to try and have only one thing happening at once this little bucket thing wont be a big or expensive job it is what it is and I just want something reasonable to jump on give death and do maintenance when its needed so what husa said about do it once do it right is what I will try to do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is currently where it sits, will have to read my posts on what I was up to last time as it's been awhile.

    Here is the bike assembled I thought I was almost done the only reason I pulled it apart was to give me something to do during this lockdown... I was only going to paint it and check the top end out then bearings where falling apart on disassemble and broken bits falling out and it pretty much went south from there, need to fix that ugly exhaust pipe but apart from that it's all good, have all the other bits - nylon, clipons ectClick image for larger version. 

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  13. #28
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    Prox rod kit tf 100- 125Click image for larger version. 

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    i'm over buckets

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    Prox rod kit tf 100- 125Click image for larger version. 

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    This looks like a much easier option then boring the crank out, I will have to price one up, also like you said far better to assemble with the shoulder.

    Thanks for the pic. Had a look at the pro x website and the dimensions are perfect for a good piston selection.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    Prox rod kit tf 100- 125Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    This looks like a much easier option then boring the crank out, I will have to price one up, also like you said far better to assemble with the shoulder.

    Thanks for the pic. Had a look at the pro x website and the dimensions are perfect for a good piston selection.
    that rod is ProX Con.Rod Kit RM125 ’84-86 + CR125 ’83-84
    https://www.pro-x.com/prox-connectin...nsions-suzuki/
    But how do you know its a Pro x Pin Scott?

    the Pin from the Cr125m is about the right length and Samarin still make the pins in the right size for 20mm

    KT.204 EC • KTM 125 EXC SX 89/97 (110 19 26 14,8 20 56 15x19x20P 20x26x15.EC
    HO.220 ECM • Honda 125 CR 85/87 88/07 104 19 28 16 22 54 15-19-18P 22-28-16-EC
    http://www.samarin.net/?productos=&a...nas=13&&id=192

    or 22mm
    http://www.samarin.net/?productos=&a...nas=16&&id=211
    KW.224 EC • Kawasaki 125 KX 2003/2006 (Reforzada) 104 19 29 17 22 56 15x19x20P 22x29x17EC

    YA.207 EC • Yamaha 125 YZ 86 /00 - 01/04 (Reforzada) 105 20 29 17 22 54,5 15x20x18P 22x29x17.EC
    YA.210 EC • Yamaha 125 TZR (Reforzada) 105 21 29 17 22 56 16x21x20P 22x29x17.EC
    YA.215 EC • Yamaha 200 Quad Blaster (Reforzada) 110 20 29 17 22 56,4 16x20x20P 22x29x17EC
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

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