The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[pritch]

Nothing compared to Whoopsi “the holocaust wasn’t about race “Goldberg 😂😂😂😂

Already discussed.

[TheDemonLord]

You mean not get vaccinated ... ?? Oh wait ... I DID get vaccinated. I've got the Covid Passport to prove it.

What other reason would/could there be that would cause me to be refused service .. ???

Every trip out .... more laughs ...

Oh I dunno, changing the rules? I mean it's not like there isn't *quite* a bit of recent instances of the Government moving the Goal Posts. I seem to remember 90% being the Vaccination rate for 'things to go back to normal'...

They could revoke your Vaccine pass tomorrow for whatever reason they feel like and then you'd be in the same group that you currently laugh at...

Now THAT would be funny.

Never heard of it. Never missed it. Wont visit it.

You probably have (indirectly) heard of it. Mainly when referencing any American news. You don't have to visit it if you don't want. The point remains, however, that it's not some fringe website. 80% accuracy in nearly 700+ polls, since 2003.

But that sidestep still does not work: Concentration Camps for Unvaccinated, Good or Bad? This should be a pretty easy question to answer...

And I don't recall any NZ Democrat party. A few Democratic "one thing or another parties" ... ALL didn't last long in Parliament ... if they even got a seat. Yet you talk like they have/had valid claims or ideas.

Here's a hint: The US Democrat Party and NZ's Labour party share the same ideology. Certain ideas (like when being Maori exempted you from Traffic Fines) have a direct ideological lineage to what is cooked up in the US.

[Madness]

It's just Wearing a Mask / It's just wearing a Star
It's just a Vaccine Pass / It's just an Ancestry Pass
It's just a Temporary living facility / It's just a Temporary Camp



It's just a Shower.

Look, TDL is still a raging fuckwit! Who would have guessed that cocksucker would be a disease enthusiast?

As you were.

[TheDemonLord]

Look, TDL is still a raging fuckwit! Who would have guessed that cocksucker would be a disease enthusiast?

As you were.

Not a disease enthusiast, a Freedom enthusiast. Slight difference.

[FJRider]

Oh I dunno ...

That's the statement you should use more often. It's the only option you have say ... and be CORRECT.

They could revoke your Vaccine pass tomorrow for whatever reason they feel like and then you'd be in the same group that you currently laugh at...

I've had ALL the jabs I'm entitled to have ... including the booster shot. And I'm quite happy to get any other ones ... as and when I'm required to ... when they are available to me ...

I have no fear (at all) of of what you suggest ...

Guess which group is currently the butt of all the jokes ... and I'll give you a clue even. It's not the group I'm in ...

Figured it out yet ... ??

Now THAT would be funny.

It would be a safe bet to say ... I'll be the one laughing ... for some time yet ...

You probably have (indirectly) heard of it. Mainly when referencing any American news.

Never heard of it. I have no interest in yank news. Even news from Dorkland is bad enough. How many new cases there today ???

But that sidestep still does not work: Concentration Camps for Unvaccinated, Good or Bad? This should be a pretty easy question to answer...

A bloody GOOD idea. As long as they do their own cooking and cleaning ... I don't want to make life easy for them.

Look up the actual existing rules ... regarding National outbreaks of diseases and/or viruses ... that can kill people. The rules currently being applied ... are the soft version. Things can get tougher ... and will ... if those (or more) refuse to follow the rules. OR ... an even more potent version of covid shows up.

... Certain ideas have a direct ideological lineage to what is cooked up in the US.

Get back to me and say "I told you so" ... if that ever happens.

But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ (and I'm not expecting your message any time soon) ... you'll still be looking like the village idiot. But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems to be full of them.



Have a nice day ..

[mashman]

Look up the actual existing rules ... regarding National outbreaks of diseases and/or viruses ... that can kill people. The rules currently being applied ... are the soft version. Things can get tougher ... and will ... if those (or more) refuse to follow the rules. OR ... an even more potent version of covid shows up.

Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Covid is 99.x% survivable. Yet No, throw those very carefully thought out rules out of the window. I can't ride the bus. I can't go to a movie. I can't even sit in a restaurant. You are treating a section of society worse than those who called people "Niggers" up til the, well, primarily 60's I guess... coz at least they had a section they were allowed to sit in. The fear is beyond irrational given the evidence of the last 2 years, and it proves what Goering states without question.

For the record, I know of 1 dead within 48 hours after vaccination and 1 with pericarditis. I know of a fair few who have had covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, none of whom are dead or suffering long term effects. Yet experimental vaccination get to create a 4th world population in under 2 years. Goering was right about you guys. Those who didn't get vaccinated obeyed the law, and I Am proud of them for that .

[TheDemonLord]

I've had ALL the jabs I'm entitled to have ... including the booster shot. And I'm quite happy to get any other ones ... as and when I'm required to ... when they are available to me ...

I have no fear (at all) of of what you suggest ...

Guess which group is currently the butt of all the jokes ... and I'll give you a clue even. It's not the group I'm in ...

Figured it out yet ... ??

Sure, but guess what? Your vaccine pass could be revoked by the Government, in spite of what Vaccinations you have or have not had.

A bloody GOOD idea. As long as they do their own cooking and cleaning ... I don't want to make life easy for them.

And this is precisely the reason why I posted it.

If I replace the word Unvaccinated with the word Jew and posted what YOU have written on any neo-nazi website, it would be met with rapturous applause.

YOU might want to think about that.

Look up the actual existing rules ... regarding National outbreaks of diseases and/or viruses ... that can kill people. The rules currently being applied ... are the soft version. Things can get tougher ... and will ... if those (or more) refuse to follow the rules. OR ... an even more potent version of covid shows up.

I have. And were Covid may times more deadly and affected the young, some of the rules *might* (and I must stress, this is a very tenuous 'might') have a pragmatic justification that overrides the Moral concern about breaching Natural Rights.

Get back to me and say "I told you so" ... if that ever happens.

See above - you agree with putting people in Concentration Camps who you think pose a threat to you.

I told you so, by your own very words.

But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ (and I'm not expecting your message any time soon) ... you'll still be looking like the village idiot. But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems to be full of them.

Have a nice day ..

Again, I don't live in Auckland, so this repeat 'gotcha' makes you look rather silly.

Now to be clear, I don't think that sort of Legislation will happen, because like most liberal Democracies the civil push-back seems to start when the Government starts issuing mandates. (Canada, USA, England etc.)

The fact that otherwise rational and sane people are in support of Concentration camps for a group they despise, however, is still of a massive Concern.

[TheDemonLord]

Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week.

And for the first time in a great long while, Myself and Mashman are in total Agreement.

"I was only following the rules" is no defence against injustice (or at least, it used to be)

[husaberg]

Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Covid is 99.x% survivable. Yet No, throw those very carefully thought out rules out of the window. I can't ride the bus. I can't go to a movie. I can't even sit in a restaurant. You are treating a section of society worse than those who called people "Niggers" up til the, well, primarily 60's I guess... coz at least they had a section they were allowed to sit in. The fear is beyond irrational given the evidence of the last 2 years, and it proves what Goering states without question.

For the record, I know of 1 dead within 48 hours after vaccination and 1 with pericarditis. I know of a fair few who have had covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, none of whom are dead or suffering long term effects. Yet experimental vaccination get to create a 4th world population in under 2 years. Goering was right about you guys. Those who didn't get vaccinated obeyed the law, and I Am proud of them for that .

You can do all those things the choice is if you wish to comply with the rules for these venues.
To compare it to the treatment of the Jews, the Gypsies, the slavs, the disfigured, the handicapped, gay and the others that Hilters regime chose to exterminate.
places you and any others that also do in the category of raging idiots and totally reprehensible despicable scum.

[Kickaha]

Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week.

And for the first time in a great long while, Myself and Mashman are in total Agreement.

)

The Nuremburg code is not law and has no legal standing in NZ or most other countries and was superseded by Declaration of Helsinki, decades ago

[TheDemonLord]

The Nuremburg code is not law and has no legal standing in NZ or most other countries and was superseded by Declaration of Helsinki, decades ago

A very interesting Document.

Particularly the sections about Informed Consent and how it cannot be made under Duress.

I dunno about what you consider Duress, but threat of loosing your Job seems like Duress to me...

[husaberg]

Smallpox was a common killer in nineteenth century Britain. It spread rapidly and killed around 30% of those who contracted it and left many survivors blinded or scarred. In 1850s, the government passed a series of laws that made vaccination against smallpox compulsory.

1840 marked the first in a series of laws regarding vaccination in Britain. After the scientific community built a better understanding of how infectious disease spread, the British government outlawed the practice of variolation with the first Vaccination Act of 1840. The Act of 1840 also provided free vaccinations for the poor through the new Poor Law Unions. The government ramped up its focus on improving vaccination rates and subsequently passed the Vaccination Act of 1853. The Act made it compulsory for all infants under three months old to be vaccinated. Local registrars of births, marriages and deaths gave out vaccination certificates to parents of newborns which had to be returned signed by a doctor. Negligent parents could be fined or imprisoned. In 1867, the government increased its efforts and made it compulsory for all children under the age of 14 to be vaccinated against smallpox. However, this was not the case for many children.

Certainly the outcry from anti-vaccination protesters had an impact on British vaccine policy. In 1885, a massive anti-vaccination protest in Leicester attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 people. In response, a Royal Commission was formed to understand attitudes on all sides regarding vaccination. The commission heard from opponents and supporters of vaccination for seven years to advise the British government on how to move forward. Their report in 1896 stated that vaccination was effective in protecting against smallpox. It also recommended that the government abolish the penalties for not vaccinating. In 1898, a new Vaccination Act removed these penalties and introduced a new clause known as the “conscientious objector” clause that allowed parents who did not believe vaccines were safe or effective to obtain a certificate exempting their children from vaccination

[mashman]

The Nuremburg code is not law and has no legal standing in NZ or most other countries and was superseded by Declaration of Helsinki, decades ago

Found in the Declaration of Helsinki: "No national or international ethical, legal or regulatory requirement should reduce or eliminate any of the protections for research subjects set forth in this Declaration".

Aye, they aren't laws, they are ethical standards/codes designed to transcend law and sovereignty for many well thought out reasons. Breaching those standards/codes usually results in legal action being applied, using the breaches of the standards/codes as the foundation for any legal argument. I guess one can pick and choose eh.

[TheDemonLord]

Certainly the outcry from anti-vaccination protesters had an impact on British vaccine policy. In 1885, a massive anti-vaccination protest in Leicester attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 people. In response, a Royal Commission was formed to understand attitudes on all sides regarding vaccination. The commission heard from opponents and supporters of vaccination for seven years to advise the British government on how to move forward. Their report in 1896 stated that vaccination was effective in protecting against smallpox. It also recommended that the government abolish the penalties for not vaccinating. In 1898, a new Vaccination Act removed these penalties and introduced a new clause known as the “conscientious objector” clause that allowed parents who did not believe vaccines were safe or effective to obtain a certificate exempting their children from vaccination

So, by the info posted by Husa, going back over 100 years. The British public's position on Vaccination has been:

- Make the Vaccine available.
- But don't you dare mandate it.

Now to all the naysayers in my Fan Club, Thanks to Husa's excellent investigative work, you can see that my principled opposition isn't some fringe lunacy. It is, in fact, a very VERY long established tradition centred around the British conception of Bodily autonomy, rights and freedoms.

I expect that the apologies won't be forthcoming, but then when you opposition in a debate essentially prove your point for you, none is really required.

\Smug mode.

[FJRider]

Sure, but guess what? Your vaccine pass could be revoked by the Government, in spite of what Vaccinations you have or have not had.

Why ... ?? I've had ALL the vaccinations currently required and available to me ...

And this is precisely the reason why I posted it.

I'm glad we agree on that then ...

If I replace the word Unvaccinated with the word Jew and posted what YOU have written on any neo-nazi website, it would be met with rapturous applause.

AND ... If I replaced the words DemonLord in each and every reply to your posts ... with COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKWIT ... in these Kiwibiker forums ... it would be met with rapturous applause. Your point is .. ???

YOU might want to think about that.

I have thought about doing the above ... but you have no sense of humour ... and would complain like a spoilt two year old to the site Moderators ... about how offended you are ...

A sense of reality ... obviously isn't your strong point ...

I have. And were Covid may times more deadly and affected the young, some of the rules *might* (and I must stress, this is a very tenuous 'might') have a pragmatic justification that overrides the Moral concern about breaching Natural Rights.

Did you read the actual requirements for the Government to introduce such a policy ... in the interests of Nationwide health and Public safety. When people start dying ... they CAN START THE POLICY. Did you read the minimum number of deaths ... that would validate the instigation of the policy .. ??

See above - you agree with putting people in Concentration Camps who you think pose a threat to you.

They pose more of a threat to THEMSELVES ... than me ...

I'm vaccinated ... remember ...

I told you so, by your own very words.

It was in regard to your post of

Certain ideas have a direct ideological lineage to what is cooked up in the US.

... when did that happen in regard to "My very words" .. ???

Again, I don't live in Auckland, so this repeat 'gotcha' makes you look rather silly.

If you learn to read ... with a basic understanding of the English language .. you might see I posted " But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems full of them". Point out where I said YOU live in Auckland .. ???

Now to be clear, I don't think that sort of Legislation will happen, because like most liberal Democracies the civil push-back seems to start when the Government starts issuing mandates. (Canada, USA, England etc.)

But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ ... you cannot tell me ... "I Told You So" ... as per my actual quote ... which you actually didn't quote properly ... or accurately. Is English your second language .. ??? (I think I might have asked you that before)

The fact that otherwise rational and sane people are in support of Concentration camps for a group they despise, however, is still of a massive Concern.

Don't think "Concentration Camps" ... that is a bit harsh. Think instead ... maybe ... HEALTH camps. You'll feel much better about the idea.

It would be in the interest of ALL their health needs after all ...