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Thread: The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    The smart move would be to charge 10% more every day & advertise no surcharge on public holiday. win win.
    Pretty sure 1% would have done it. Instead they lost my business.

    Now Burger King is going down the tubes I don't know where I will turn.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    The smart move would be to charge 10% more every day & advertise no surcharge on public holiday. win win.
    Wouldn't have to be 10%. It's what budgets are for. Spread out over a fiscal year it woul be sweet fuck all margin added to everything they sell, same as any other business cost. Blows my mind the places that charge a surcharge to the point I won't eat there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    I get the feeling that "normal" isint what is wanted in the future by the powers that be.
    Apparenty technology is progressing at the extreme rate that in 10 years the amount of jobless will be undescribable. An interesting conspiracy article articulated that this virus and lockdown is a bit of a soft reset/cull before we get to that point. Our world population has gone from 2 billion to 7 billion pretty much in the short time of the industrial revolution which enabled mass food production. If its true that we are running out of oil mega agriculture doesn't work under an electric powered world...
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    .... If its true that we are running out of oil mega agriculture doesn't work under an electric powered world...
    Powering farm vehicles and machinery with electricity isn't an issue. The real problem as we wean ourselves off of oil is the manufacturing of the soluble fertilisers that food production have become reliant on; nitrogen fertilisers in particular. And the transportation of produce and its products across the Earth will be seen for the folly that it is, especially in regard to the importation of these into a food producing country such as ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Apparenty technology is progressing at the extreme rate that in 10 years the amount of jobless will be undescribable. An interesting conspiracy article articulated that this virus and lockdown is a bit of a soft reset/cull before we get to that point. Our world population has gone from 2 billion to 7 billion pretty much in the short time of the industrial revolution which enabled mass food production. If its true that we are running out of oil mega agriculture doesn't work under an electric powered world...
    Why not stop technology that cuts out jobs, it's only purpose is to make a few more wealthy anyway. Also who is going to buy there products? Meh, more to.e to relax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    The smart move would be to charge 10% more every day & advertise no surcharge on public holiday. win win.
    I would say that those that advertise that no surcharge is added ... are doing exactly that. Busy holiday weekends should get more customers in anyway.

    Quality food and service should be the best advertising. But if the punters are willing to pay the extra ... who are we to argue ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPenguin View Post
    Why not stop technology that cuts out jobs, it's only purpose is to make a few more wealthy anyway. Also who is going to buy there products? Meh, more to.e to relax.
    Technology plays a part in job availability ... but it plays a large part in creating a different skill requirement. Technology may cut worker numbers in some areas ... usually in repetitive ... low paid ... non-skilled ... factory type work. Where staff turnover is greatest. All in the interest of cost cutting and lower end costs ... apparently ...

    Why are kids being let loose from schools with no (or little) on the job training for their future employment ???

    Many with a university degree and still no job ... or ideas what they might want to do ...

    I think it's time work skills and on the job training plays a bigger part in youth education. They can then concentrate their education ... on getting the qualifications they need ... for the job they want. Keep them in school until they get employment.

    Some leave high school with no idea what they want to do. And with no work ethic been instilled in them.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    Pretty sure 1% would have done it. Instead they lost my business.

    Now Burger King is going down the tubes I don't know where I will turn.
    I agree that mathematically that's true, but if you're operating so close to the breadline that you have to charge extra on certain days when overheads are higher, then 10% every day will push it into the black a bit more effectively.
    Yeah Burger King, they should have sent a rep from head office to take the shops to task for having filthy eating areas, with soft drink & chips all over the floor, maybe people wouldn't have been grossed out & gone somewhere else.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki Rat View Post
    Powering farm vehicles and machinery with electricity isn't an issue. The real problem as we wean ourselves off of oil is the manufacturing of the soluble fertilisers that food production have become reliant on; nitrogen fertilisers in particular. And the transportation of produce and its products across the Earth will be seen for the folly that it is, especially in regard to the importation of these into a food producing country such as ours.
    Using nitrogen fertilizers increases production and yields. it ensures aour animals are feed in times of shortages.
    Without it you have to accept a higher cost of production and or a lower yield.
    I agree with the coal to Newcastle ,but NZ is the most efficient and chemically safe dairy farmers and beef farmers in the world we can produce and ship it around the world for lower carbon output and pollution than other counties we supply can. there are also economies of scale to be figured in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Using nitrogen fertilizers increases production and yields. it ensures aour animals are feed in times of shortages.
    Without it you have to accept a higher cost of production and or a lower yield.
    I agree with the coal to Newcastle ,but NZ is the most efficient and chemically safe dairy farmers and beef farmers in the world we can produce and ship it around the world for lower carbon output and pollution than other counties we supply can. there are also economies of scale to be figured in.
    Nitrogen fertilisers deplete topsoil/humus over time. Hence the term "rich father, poor son"fertiliser. If soils are treated respectfully they will produce all the nitrogen required for most agriculture and horticulture production. Check out https://www.integritysoils.co.nz/pro...-love-of-soil/ for how it is done successfully across multiple countries.



    Feeding livestock in times of shortage used to be done by way of hay or silage. These days the production of agricultural systems is all too often heavily reliant on imported feed including PKE and molasses, at the mercy of importation costs and exchange rates. That is not the sign of a sustainable production system and is one of the reasons over leveraged farmers often struggle to cope with the realities of their investment with lethal results. Did you factor that production cost into your calculations?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki Rat View Post
    Did you factor that production cost into your calculations?
    Calculations?

    Methinks you give him far too much credit.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki Rat View Post
    Nitrogen fertilisers deplete topsoil/humus over time. Hence the term "rich father, poor son"fertiliser. If soils are treated respectfully they will produce all the nitrogen required for most agriculture and horticulture production. Check out https://www.integritysoils.co.nz/pro...-love-of-soil/ for how it is done successfully across multiple countries.



    Feeding livestock in times of shortage used to be done by way of hay or silage. These days the production of agricultural systems is all too often heavily reliant on imported feed including PKE and molasses, at the mercy of importation costs and exchange rates. That is not the sign of a sustainable production system and is one of the reasons over leveraged farmers often struggle to cope with the realities of their investment with lethal results. Did you factor that production cost into your calculations?
    Nitrogen converts organic matter into plant soluble matter as well as inceasing growth.
    try seeing what it does to sawdust.
    If you think you can make the most of plant or animal yields without it, you are sadly mistaken.
    Nitrogen is a growth multiplier, A tool to maximize yields.
    Same as gilliberal acid, they are tools to increase productivity they are not the devil, there is strict guidelines on their use.
    nutrients harvested by meat of herbage crops need to be replaced abd factors preventing crops and animals reaching full productivity removed
    conserving feed is a high pollutant and has a high cost and losses in feeding and making it, Silage leach-age is far worse pollutant than raw effluent.
    Like i said we can happily farm without nitrogen it if people will accept lower yields and higher cost.
    there are competition fo land so its use has to be efficient.
    Housing subdivisions in pukekohe and into the wiakato is not going to feed NZ or the world.


    It has been posited that half the current world’s population would not have been born if it were not for the invention of ammonia fertiliser by German scientists Haber and Bosch in the early 20th century. This is because of the essential requirement of N by plants and animals, and hence food production, to support world population growth. The element nitrogen (N), is the seventh element in the periodic table and is one of the 19 elements essential for life on planet Earth. Despite this, all known life on Earth is referred to as carbon-based lifeforms and it would be impossible for life on Earth to exist without carbon (C) because it is the main component (approximately 45-50% of dry biomass) of most tissues in living things.

    Protein synthesis

    Carbon is basic to life because it can form stable bonds with many elements, which allows it to form up to 10 million carbon- based molecules in living organisms. Carbon bound to hydrogen (H) and oxygen (O) form the carbohydrates, which are the building blocks of compounds from simple sugars used for energy to structural lignin (eg, wood) in plants. The ability of C to bond with N (together with H and O) forms the building blocks for protein formation.

    Proteins are essential in living organisms because they do most of the work in living cells, in terms of structure, function and regulation of tissues. Proteins, and hence N, are essential for making cell membranes, enzymes and nucleic acids (ie, DNA), transporting oxygen, being part of the immune system and messaging between cells.

    Food production

    All plants, for both human and animal consumption, extract most of their N requirements from the soil solution. Soil solution N is derived mostly from the organic matter in the soil, which is mineralised (decomposed) by the action of soil micro-organisms, as well as from N fertilisers. Soil organic matter accumulates from death and decay of uneaten leaves and stems, dung and urine, crop residues including roots.

    Plants take up soil N as either ammonium or nitrate ions and use these to produce amino acids and proteins. Legumes, eg, clovers, lucerne, beans and peas, can form symbiotic relationships with a group of soil bacteria from the Rhizobium family. Legumes allow rhizobia to infect their root systems to form nodules within which rhizobia extract nitrogen gas from the air to form ammonium ions. The rhizobia exchange some of this ammonium in return for carbohydrate (energy) supplies from the legume host. Trial work has shown that in grazed-pasture situations N fixation by legumes can contribute between 25-150kg

    N/ha/year (depending on clover content, climate, topography and slope) to the N cycle. Free-living N fixing microorganisms also live in soils and make a small contribution to the N cycle. Animals and humans get proteins and amino acids from eating plants and then synthesise their own proteins from these.

    The N cycle in agricultural systems is leaky and losses of N from soil to the air as ammonia, nitrogen gas or nitrous oxide occur under certain soil conditions and contribute to greenhouse gas emission. Surplus N in soils (from excess fertiliser

    N or urine of grazing animals) can contribute to N in drainage water, which affects receiving-water quality. Therefore, we must all try to make the N cycle as efficient as possible so that we can enjoy the benefits of healthy, nutritious food production while minimising any effects on the environment we all live in.Dr Ants Roberts
    "People hear things like artificial fertilisers are bad because they're chemicals and destroy soil life and cause soil compaction and all that sort of thing. That's complete rubbish, often with no scientific proof of efficacy behind it. The essential concept in New Zealand farming is that we use fertiliser nutrients to create a soil environment to maximise the production of white clover. And why do we do that? Because it's a very good, nutritious feed from which animals produce milk, meat or fibre very effectively.

    White clover is the key to New Zealand's huge success as a farming nation because of the entirely natural biochemical process that takes place beneath our feet.

    "Soil living bacteria called rhizobia infect the roots of legumes like white clover, and swellings or nodules form on the roots. The rhizobia extract nitrogen gas (N2) from the air, convert it to ammonium ions and supply these to the clover for it to make into essential amino acids and proteins. In return, the 'bugs' get carbohydrates from the plant and so it's a symbiotic relationship, and that is called biological nitrogen fixation."

    Another common misconception is that nitrogen-based fertilisers like urea are toxic.

    "Of course, you can get farmers who incorrectly use nitrogen fertilisers," says Dr Roberts. "But principally, all the nitrogen that you hear about that is "leaking" out into waterways is coming from urea in the urine of grazing animals, and most of that nitrogen comes from that originally fixed by white clover and the recycling of N from soil organic matter. N fertiliser use does add to this 'pool' of N cycling from the soil to the plant to the animal."

    Then there is the idea that chemical fertilisers kill off natural soil bacteria, something Dr Roberts categorically denies.

    "There is good published science science to prove you produce more. If you manage your soils to produce more pasture, and graze it so the dung and urine is returned to the grazed area, then this provides more food for everything that lives in the soil which leads to an increase in microorganism numbers and activity. We get accused of not considering the balance of nutrients but that's rubbish, we just don't talk about it in the same way as some of the people using alternative products because we know there are many of the essential major and trace elements which our soils will supply without us having to add any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPenguin View Post
    A lot of restaurants/cafes can't even stay open on public holidays without charging a surcharge to cover penal rates, so what does that tell you.
    perhaps a few things

    - the cost of materials and/or labour is too high
    - the amount of patronage is too low (or big lulls between rushes) mid morning, lunch, avro smoko etc
    - the goods aren't up to scratch
    - the service is shit
    - the amount the owners are taking is too high
    - I have also heard of managers skimming off the top, the owners left with nothing and the staff start a new shop just round the corner
    - unclean
    - number and cleanliness of toilets (a job I had for a very short time) some people are animals (I would pay for nice toilets Opotiki?, even though I wouldn't want to)
    - hate going to pubs with 1 toilet and its usually a mess
    - there is a lot of hidden costs to running such a business.
    - if its an owner operator - they get sick and tired of working even on the holidays
    - need to invent/have something for people to come regularily - all year round - opportunity to pan for gold?

    Its in the wrong position/location
    A big franchise eg BP Cafe has just opened in town - check out Taihape - I am sure most of the shops there notice this on a week weekend, people will stop at BP fuel and get a snack at the Cafe. Similar at Army base further south. Although the pizza place wasn't too bad last time I was through there - Cold and wet.

    Not too many people stopping at remote locations on my recent Sth Is tour. they were all in a hurry to get to next motel or place of rest. Always on a time limit.
    If I had more $ and more time, I would have stopped more often, its nice to see/talk to people and observe they live-some places have bugger all.

    I know of a Takeaway shop which used to do a roaring trade - food excellent, price not bad, good service, quick service etc.
    Sold it, new owners tried to make it cheaper (the usual) I gave it a few tries and gave up, prices up, food was shit, 6 months later closed.

    If the economy suffers then extravagant things like lattes and burn outs by the boys will be reduced.
    (the number of burn outs has reduced a lot recently to what it used to be like.)
    I don't mind the burnouts per se. They come they burn out and bugger off - mostly in off peak times - no one suffers.

    Its the dickheads that do it and racing during normal working hours that stupid....

    Courier drivers think they are invincible and just cross roads without looking too complacent.

    READ AND UDESTAND

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Nitrogen converts organic matter into plant soluble matter as well as inceasing growth.
    try seeing what it does to sawdust.
    If you think you can make the most of plant or animal yields without it, you are sadly mistaken.
    Nitrogen is a growth multiplier, A tool to maximize yields.
    Same as gilliberal acid, they are tools to increase productivity they are not the devil, there is strict guidelines on their use.
    nutrients harvested by meat of herbage crops need to be replaced abd factors preventing crops and animals reaching full productivity removed
    conserving feed is a high pollutant and has a high cost and losses in feeding and making it, Silage leach-age is far worse pollutant than raw effluent.
    Like i said we can happily farm without nitrogen it if people will accept lower yields and higher cost.
    there are competition fo land so its use has to be efficient.
    Housing subdivisions in pukekohe and into the wiakato is not going to feed NZ or the world.
    The process that nitrogen fuels in decomposing sawdust is replicated in the OM (carbon) that is the major constituent of topsoil, which supports the issue I raised. The biota mass contained in the soil of a biologically active farm system is immense and the life cycles of the organisms that make up that biome produce copious nitrogen as they die and decompose. Your underground livestock mass is multitudes greater than that above ground. As that biological mass reduces with constant use of soluble nitrogen fertilisers the nitrogen generating capacity of those organisms decline and so dependency on nitrogen fertiliser increases, like an addiction. Remember too that our atmosphere is composed of 78% nitrogen which is freely available to legumes and nitrogen fixing bacteria.

    Your comparison to the growth hormone gibberilic acid is quite apt as both it and N are dependent on existing soil content to generate plant growth.

    In our own case our 2.5 ha drystock lifestyle property receives annual applications of composted poultry manure product with RPR, magnesium and calcium added. The chicken manure is composted to stabilise the N and to foster biological activation in the soil it is spread on.
    The actual N content is only 3%. I see our approach as for more efficient than constantly and increasingly applying mineral salts to address deficiencies driven by leaching of minerals in soluble salt form with runoffs then exacerbated by excessive stock levels producing more urine than soils can possibly absorb.

    You seem to have some knowledge of soil science so you will probably appreciate the information contained in the book I linked to earlier.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki Rat View Post
    The process that nitrogen fuels in decomposing sawdust is replicated in the OM (carbon) that is the major constituent of topsoil, which supports the issue I raised. The biota mass contained in the soil of a biologically active farm system is immense and the life cycles of the organisms that make up that biome produce copious nitrogen as they die and decompose. Your underground livestock mass is multitudes greater than that above ground. As that biological mass reduces with constant use of soluble nitrogen fertilisers the nitrogen generating capacity of those organisms decline and so dependency on nitrogen fertiliser increases, like an addiction. Remember too that our atmosphere is composed of 78% nitrogen which is freely available to legumes and nitrogen fixing bacteria.

    Your comparison to the growth hormone gibberilic acid is quite apt as both it and N are dependent on existing soil content to generate plant growth.

    In our own case our 2.5 ha drystock lifestyle property receives annual applications of composted poultry manure product with RPR, magnesium and calcium added. The chicken manure is composted to stabilise the N and to foster biological activation in the soil it is spread on.
    The actual N content is only 3%. I see our approach as for more efficient than constantly and increasingly applying mineral salts to address deficiencies driven by leaching of minerals in soluble salt form with runoffs then exacerbated by excessive stock levels producing more urine than soils can possibly absorb.

    You seem to have some knowledge of soil science so you will probably appreciate the information contained in the book I linked to earlier.
    2.5 ha, i have farmed and developed land for decades i have developed pakahi and forrest terrace and even silt river flats.
    SO i would be impressed if you provide me with the calculations on how adding iNtrogen would not increase your production many fold. because simple science says it will.
    Also and just now many 100 of billions of chickens we will need to ferilise the 13,9 million ha of farms in NZ using a no N method and its lower yields.
    Even just the extra man power and fuel that would eed to be used to cart and store this cheicken compost
    Where and how are we going to grow the chicken feed to feed the grow the 100's billion chickens.
    Yes as i said N is a growth multiplier and relies on correcting PH and basic soil deficiencies ofPK and S and the other nutrients. so why insinuate i said anything other.
    You can grow crops and pasture without it just no where near as efficiently so to maintain the same yields we need to clear more land or accept lower yields and higher prices.
    I stated this directly
    RPR is imported we only have a smal local source of serpentine at Dunedin as far as i know. it ld relies on soil acididly to become plant available.
    NZ does not have the chickens or the land available tosupport them required to produce the manure to fertilize NZ.
    Dr Ants Roberts is a no bullshit scientist respected by the entire farming community who hacs dedicated himself throughout his entire career.
    How is it you and your duck know more.

    T
    he OECD describes nitrogen as one of the most important elements in life on earth, adding about half the world’s population relies on nitrogen fertilisers for food.
    there is no proof fertilisers pollute rivers.
    Animals can and last year sewerage outflow from local government increased a massive 379% according to an independent survey by Water NZ.
    Also, according to the Prime Minister’s former science adviser Sir Peter Gluckman, some water bodies are in a good state but others have been significantly compromised by agriculture intensification, urban expansion, industrial pollution, hydro-electric development or the effects of drought.
    Nowhere was either Ballance or Ravensdown mentioned.
    Gluckman went on to say our most polluted waterways are in urban, not rural areas, and the fertiliser co-operatives have no control over anything that happens there.
    In addition, there is a NIWA report to the Ministry for the Environment that claims the impact of rainfall means storm water picks up sediment, rubbish, contaminants and dog and bird droppings.
    Greenpeace made these signs and as a result the Advertising Standards Authority upheld the complaint over the Greenpeace billboard claiming Ravensdown and Ballance pollute rivers.
    They were forced to remove them.
    https://farmersweekly.co.nz/#Alan Emerson


    the Greenpeace accusations that nitrogen is NZ’s hidden climate killer read a 2017 NZ government report to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
    It dealt with our emissions by sector between 1990 and 2015.
    The energy sector emissions increased by 36.7% over that period, industrial processes and product use by 47.3% and agriculture by just 16%.
    So, during a time when cow numbers increased by 88% and nitrogen fertiliser use increased 500% our emissions increased by just 16%. That alone makes the Greenpeace statement that synthetic nitrogen fertiliser is NZ’s hidden climate change killer wrong in fact.
    The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development recently released a report entitled Human Acceleration of the Nitrogen Cycle, Managing Risk and Uncertainty.
    It is a good read from a highly credible organisation.
    It does point out nitrogen is one of the most important elements for life on earth and about half the world’s population relies on nitrogen fertilisers for food consumption, making nitrogen fundamental to global food security.
    The OECD also tells us nitrogen will be increasingly essential to global food security as the population grows to an estimated 9.7 billion by 2050.

    The OECD document is fascinating. You can read that the majority of nitrogen excretion is from manure and not fertiliser.
    It also states natural sources create some 60% of total nitrogen dioxide emissions. Of the 40% attributed to human activity just two-thirds of that comes from agriculture.

    The other fact to consider is that nitrogen in NZ is incredibly low by world standards.
    We have a nitrogen imbalance of 63kg per hectare compared with the UK at 87 and the Netherlands at 199.
    Nitrogen does emit greenhouse gases but most of them come from non-farming sources.
    https://farmersweekly.co.nz/#Alan Emerson
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

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