The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[Kickaha]

All the police in the US who don't want the jab are doing the country a big favour. These are mostly the same Trump supporting "bad apples" that everybody has been blaming for all of the racist bolocks that goes on in US law enforcement. Fine, fire the fuckwits. It's the best chance they ever had to clean the mess up.

More US police are dying from covid than from anything else work related

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/16/u...ths/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/u...-vaccines.html

[george formby]

What is a "thectegine" and what language does it speak?

Best guess on language is Japanese. Bit lost on the context.

[husaberg]

The real over riding issue

is your willingness to spread misinformation and your unwillingness to answer very simple questions as to why.

[R650R]

More US police are dying from covid than from anything else work related

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/16/u...ths/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/u...-vaccines.html

That article fails to mention the other thing that’s been killing cops worse than guns for a long time... that being traffic accidents. About half of those are the high speed response to incidents gone wrong but the rest are presumable being struck by other vehicles during traffic stops or at accident scenes.
There are 750,000 cops in USA not including federal agents so the numbers mentioned in that article aren’t that bad compared to national average.

[R650R]

Best guess on language is Japanese. Bit lost on the context.

I’m not game to google it after checking dictionary ... closest is Theca which is part of a plant serving as a receptacle or sheath enclosing organ or organism...
Teg being a sheep in its second year according to Oxfords finest

[R650R]

There is a YouTube clip of a tearful NZ, Brit immigrant nurse, ringing an English Talkback host saying she had been told not to come back to work until she's vaccinated. The nurse said she will lose her house if she remains unemployed. You'd think that about now she'd wake the fuck up and get the jab. Decisions have consequences.

Ken Mair (remember him?) is concerned about Maori losing their jobs because they don't want the jab. Instead of whinging he should be convincing them to get the jab.
Again decisions have consequences.

All the police in the US who don't want the jab are doing the country a big favour. These are mostly the same Trump supporting "bad apples" that everybody has been blaming for all of the racist bolocks that goes on in US law enforcement. Fine, fire the fuckwits. It's the best chance they ever had to clean the mess up.

I really don't get all the freedumb stuff about compuslory vaccinations. It's not new. You used to have to carry proof you'd had the appropriate inncoculations and vaccines to travel. The army didn't ask anybody if they wanted their jabs. Suddenly because people are ignorant of how the world works, or they've been reading idiot level stuff on the Internet, it's communism or whatever other bogeyman is hiding under their bed.

Darwin rules.

/rant

I think the real problem for that type of people is they believed and trusted in our system/illusion of democracy, you know thatÂ’s game we play everybody three years. We vote for the lesser of a selection of evil stuff based on their promises and hope weÂ’d get something close to the Shiney brochure. Bit like hiring a dodgy tradie off Facebook and not getting a written quote of the work thatÂ’s actually going to get done...
Those people sincetely believe their voice matters.
Meanwhile I was ahead of the game as this has all been advertised for years in advance so I had time to mentally prepare and accept what was coming for us.
From day one we left our borders WIDE open for months as watched the cartoonish scenes in China like it was some trailer for the next Netflix miniseries.
I knew they would gradually make masks/scanning/vaccines mandatory. Every time they made an error and roasted by media the response was predictable theyÂ’d introduce something new.
The only thing thatÂ’s taken me by surprise has been this traffic light malarkey which is just a rebranding of Lockdown 2021(C) (tm) into a lollipop style reward system to disguise lockdown not ending.
So whatÂ’s coming next winter in Season 4 of covid?
Compulsory smartphone ownership, govt will provide for the poor people.
Mandatory Bluetooth on
Mandatory health tracker smart watch if you leave house without phone
Mandatory installation of covid app on all new smartphones and devices
Mini one week lockdowns even when no outbreak prior to holiday periods to save the children aka circuit breaker lockdown

[husaberg]

That article fails to mention the other thing that’s been killing cops worse than guns for a long time... that being traffic accidents. About half of those are the high speed response to incidents gone wrong but the rest are presumable being struck by other vehicles during traffic stops or at accident scenes.
There are 750,000 cops in USA not including federal agents so the numbers mentioned in that article aren’t that bad compared to national average.

As usual, the facts are not on your side. so much winning


2021
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 386
9/11 related illness1
Assault5
Automobile crash19
COVID19 250
Drowned3
Duty related illness2
Gunfire51
Gunfire (Inadvertent)1
Heart attack15
Motorcycle crash3
Stabbed3
Struck by vehicle12
Training accident1
Vehicle pursuit2
Vehicular assault17
Weather/Natural disaster1

2020
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 378
9/11 related illness15
Aircraft accident1
Assault1
Automobile crash19
COVID19248
Drowned4
Duty related illness5
Gunfire45
Gunfire (Inadvertent)5
Heart attack7
Heatstroke1
Motorcycle crash4
Struck by vehicle8
Vehicle pursuit2
Vehicular assault13

2019
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 155
9/11 related illness28
Accidental1
Assault4
Automobile crash23
Drowned1
Duty related illness2
Explosion1
Gunfire49
Gunfire (Inadvertent)2
Heart attack19
Motorcycle crash1
Struck by vehicle14
Training accident1
Vehicle pursuit1
Vehicular assault8

[Berries]

So whatÂ’s coming next winter in Season 4 of covid?
Compulsory smartphone ownership, govt will provide for the poor people.
Mandatory Bluetooth on
Mandatory health tracker smart watch if you leave house without phone
Mandatory installation of covid app on all new smartphones and devices
Mini one week lockdowns even when no outbreak prior to holiday periods to save the children aka circuit breaker lockdown

You watch way too much shit TV.

[pete376403]

You watch way too much shit TV.

Watching shit tv is one thing - believing that what you are watching is factual is whole 'nother level of crazy

[pritch]

Saw a sad Tweet from a US nurse last night. She was with a patient struggling to breathe, desperate to know what's wrong.
"You have Covid."
Between gasps, "No, that's false. They are just using that to control us. What's wrong with me?"

[TheDemonLord]

I had a measles vaccine as a kid - that one sticks for life!
But - why the fuck would I ever want to be rid of my immunity to measles? What would be the point of becoming vulnerable to that disease again?
I wish the Covid vaccine gave me life-long 100% immunity to Covid, that would be fantastic.
Only an anti-vaxxer would wish they could be free of the vaccine, vaccines are a modern miracle that have freed humankind from diseases such as smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, polio and many other diseases.

You miss the point (again) all of the things you mentioned are 100% reversible. A Vaccine is not, Vaccines can and do have side-effects - some of which can be permanent.

If someone decides that actually for a disease that they have above a 98% chance of living from - they'd rather chance it or wait for some long term data - that is their business.

All you can do (if you are genuinely scarred) is make sure you are vaccinated and wear your N95 Mask, that (based on the science ) should give you almost 100% protection.

I'm sick of this body autonomy BS. Wah, wah, but I want to remain vulnerable to this disease, wah, wah. I'm fine with someone declining medical intervention, as long as doing so doesn't put anyone else at risk. When your decision to remain a vector for disease affects everyone around you then there is every reason to limit how much you can do that would put others at risk. I'd be fine with schools refusing admittance of students that are not vaccinated for measles, something that does actually happen in several countries.

Okay, I'm scared you might punch me, therefore I want the Government to cut off your hand.

I also want the Government to keep you under isolation to prevent you from punching me.

That's what you are advocating for.

Whereas the Liberal position says that if I'm scarred of you punching me, I cannot compel the Government to interfere with your natural rights, therefore I either have to avoid interacting with you or make decisions to protect myself - just like choosing to wear a mask and choosing to be vaccinated.

I think it is absolute bullshit that anyone has a RIGHT to serve bar to hundreds of people on a busy Friday night with no requirement to reduce the chance of infecting all the patrons with a potentially deadly disease.

Okay then - where do you draw the line? Common Cold? the Flu? I've got 2 dead Grandparents due to Flu, so it certainly meets your criteria...

And furthermore what is the method by which you use to draw the line? Mortality rate? R rate? A formula based on both to work out how many dead people is acceptable?

I'll wait.

Just make sure that the cure isn't worse than the disease and doesn't cause the entirety of society to stop.

If you don't want to get a vaccine then don't get one, but don't expect to do a job that involves contact with hundreds of other people - that would be fucking retarded!

If you don't want a brick thrown through your window, pay the extortion fee.

ANY person in NZ can refuse a vaccine and throw in a job that might require it, that is their right and there is nothing I can (or would) do to change that.

Except you are the one calling on Government compulsion to do just that, so the whole 'there is nothing I can do' is an outright lie.

I 100% support the right to refuse a vaccine

No, you don't.

You've made that perfectly clear. You want to use the tyranny of the State to force people to take the Vaccine by artificially removing their rights wholesale.

So why are you lying to yourself?

I can hazard a guess that deep down you know what you are advocating for is morally wrong, oppressive and tyrannical - so you need to tell yourself that you really are the good guy.

as long as the person doing so is fine with accepting the consequences of the choice they make. If you feel that strongly about turning down medical help, whatever - I won't stop you.

See, there's the issue - What are those Consequences? Are they the Consequences that they face in a free society or are they the artificial consequences that you are going to impose upon them? Because those two things are not the same.

You are trying to paint yourself as a neutral party when in fact you are actively calling for oppression.

I'm sure you think that Typhoid Mary was unfairly picked on and she should have been able to keep her job without being bothered by any health professionals - it isn't her fault that the people that died didn't have a good enough immune system!

Well, see there's a slight difference - on an individual case-by-case basis, with appropriate evidence and check/balances - It is fine that someone like Typhoid Mary be placed into Quarantine.

Quick aside here - untreated Typhoid has a Mortality rate similar to small pox - 10 times more fatal than Covid - just thought I'd point that out.

Indeed, an individual tested positive for Covid, I'm fine with them going into a mandatory isolation period.

[TheDemonLord]

As usual, the facts are not on your side. so much winning

You sure about that?

2021
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 386
9/11 related illness1
Assault5
Automobile crash19
COVID19 250
Drowned3
Duty related illness2
Gunfire51
Gunfire (Inadvertent)1
Heart attack15
Motorcycle crash3
Stabbed3
Struck by vehicle12
Training accident1
Vehicle pursuit2
Vehicular assault17
Weather/Natural disaster1

52 Gun related deaths vs
17 + 2+ 12 + 3 + 19 = 53 Vehicle related Deaths

2020
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 378
9/11 related illness15
Aircraft accident1
Assault1
Automobile crash19
COVID19248
Drowned4
Duty related illness5
Gunfire45
Gunfire (Inadvertent)5
Heart attack7
Heatstroke1
Motorcycle crash4
Struck by vehicle8
Vehicle pursuit2
Vehicular assault13

50 Gun related deaths vs
13 + 2 + 8 + 4 + 19 + 1 = 47 Vehicle related deaths

2019
Total Line of Duty Deaths: 155
9/11 related illness28
Accidental1
Assault4
Automobile crash23
Drowned1
Duty related illness2
Explosion1
Gunfire49
Gunfire (Inadvertent)2
Heart attack19
Motorcycle crash1
Struck by vehicle14
Training accident1
Vehicle pursuit1
Vehicular assault8

51 Gun related deaths vs
47 Vehicle related deaths

For the 3 years given, one confirms what he said, 2 do not - however the 2 that do not also include accidental shootings, which if we remove gives 2 meeting the criteria, 1 not.

[MarkH]

Okay then - where do you draw the line? Common Cold? the Flu? I've got 2 dead Grandparents due to Flu, so it certainly meets your criteria...

I guess that the line is drawn by the government when they declare a public health emergency.
There would be a whole bunch of factors that get taken into account by the government and the health professionals that advise them.

How much confidence do I have that they get these things right?
I dunno, maybe around 10,000 times as much as how much confidence in you being right.
I'm pretty sure that the chance of me going "no, I don't accept what the government is saying because I read some posts by TheDemonLord and I trust him more" would be less than 1% of 1%.

[TheDemonLord]

I guess that the line is drawn by the government when they declare a public health emergency.
There would be a whole bunch of factors that get taken into account by the government and the health professionals that advise them.

You Guess? That's awfully trusting of you. Considering.

See, when the Government wants to revoke certain rights (and as a realist, I can accept that things like Rationing during WW2 was a short-term, necessary infringement for example) - I need a bit more clarity than 'Guess and Factors'

When it comes to the Health Professionals - or more specifically, the ones that act as advisors to the Government (so not your rank and file nurses/doctors) - they have less of a vested interest in My Health and more of a vested interest in making sure their numbers line up on their spreadsheet.

Not only that, but as someone who just so happens to dabble a fair bit in Data and Data manipulation - I can personally assure you that the mathematical modelling that is published and presented to the Public is done in such a manner as to suit the objectives of the one presenting it.

Or to put it another way 'Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics'.

How much confidence do I have that they get these things right?
I dunno, maybe around 10,000 times as much as how much confidence in you being right.

I'm pretty sure that the chance of me going "no, I don't accept what the government is saying because I read some posts by TheDemonLord and I trust him more" would be less than 1% of 1%.

And therein lies the difference between My position and yours.

Your position requires you to be right, Mine does not require me to be right.

Because in the position that I put forward, my decisions don't impact you and so if I'm horrendously wrong, I suffer the consequences.

The same is not true for what you advocate.

[MarkH]

Your position requires you to be right, Mine does not require me to be right.

Because in the position that I put forward, my decisions don't impact you and so if I'm horrendously wrong, I suffer the consequences.

Wow, such delusional BS.
Your position is that people shouldn't have to be vaccinated, even those that are doing jobs that involve contact with thousands of other people every week, at least that is what you have claimed in this thread. If you are horrendously wrong then thousands of New Zealanders could die.
My position is that for many jobs and activities people should be required to be vaccinated (they are free to find other jobs and not go to concerts or whatever). My position is very sound, the science backs it well - this vaccine is safe and vaccinating people isn't going to cause problems. If they would have been fine without the vaccine (the most likely way in which I could be wrong) then there is still no harm done.

Frankly, your position is rubbish. Your ideas rely on weird conspiracies.

Or to put it another way 'Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics'.

This sums up your rationale - you believe it's all a big lie and all around the world the medical scientists are just lying to us. They are all wrong and you are right, we should believe you because . . . reasons?
There is no reason for any one here to believe your nonsense, we all know officials can be corrupt or incompetent, but that doesn't make the vast number of officials worldwide wrong in this instance, and it certainly doesn't make you right.
Any facts, any evidence at all - it is wasted on you because you believe yourself to be right and anything that goes against what you believe is just lies. You will continue to believe what you want to believe and no amount of evidence will change your mind.