Post Pandemic Lockdown Scenarios

[FJRider]

With the addition of boycotting anything made in China. It won't always be possible but that's my plan/personal protest.

Even the "Made in New Zealand" labels are made in China ...

[mashman]

Oh Fuck! You stupid Fucking Cunt!

Learn some history. Keep someone in power? Like they had no fucking choice. He was one of histories greatest mass murderers. No one was safe. Not even his inner circle which was regularly purged.

But it's a history that repeats itself again and again. A hundred years?!? Fucking nothing. We are still humans, and it's stupid cunts like you that think otherwise and allow this shit to happen because they think they are smart.

Certain governance has moderated this sort of behavior, but it's not a sure thing nor is it long standing. Read a fucking book.

As I said, there are worlds of difference between today and nearly 100 years ago. I did not discount the abuse that was taking place. T'was funny to read you thinking otherwise though. People did what they were told n shit to try to make things better. Under pain of death or not does not detract from the love shared among the people... which was primarily the initial point i.e. people embrace change where they consider the change that is coming better.

History is also littered with revolutions to overthrow governments where the people rise to get behind an ideal and its representation for going forwards and making things better. Lenin, the guy who chose Stalin as his successor, was installed by a peoples revolution wasn't it? I guess you didn't read that book eh.

As much as I love your ranty tanty "you know nothing and therefore you're not smart" comedy routines, and as fun as it might be to role out the troll, I don't think I could do a better job of that than you're already doing yourself.

[TheDemonLord]

Emergency powers are just that. In times of emergency. As for "Civil Liberties" being "Overstepped" refer to the Emergency powers act ... in times of National lockdown ... civil liberties are few. A bit like Freedom of speech does not, and cannot overrule the laws of the land. When Emergency powers are enacted ... those powers and rules MUST take precedence.

There were parts of the world that had armed police and military patrolling and were not shy to use them.


When times get tough ... pull your head in. As Far as I could see ... NZ Police were VERY restrained.

I've got no problem with Social Distancing, staying in your bubble etc.

When the Police start making certain statements - for example, saying you can't drive to the nearest beach even if you are adhering to all of the conditions required, then yes, I have an issue.

When the Police start improvising what is and is not allowed and have to retract it later, that's an even bigger concern. The Police do not have the privilege of interpretation of the Law, that is the domain of the Judiciary and the courts. As for Rules and powers taking precedence over certain rights and liberties, The only answer I can give is the simple one:

No, They do not.

[TheDemonLord]

History is also littered with revolutions to overthrow governments where the people rise to get behind an ideal and its representation for going forwards and making things better. Lenin, the guy who chose Stalin as his successor, was installed by a peoples revolution wasn't it? I guess you didn't read that book eh.

Ah Yes, Lenin, such a nice guy - who was happy to whip up jealousy amongst the peasant classes and laughed heartily when they murdered people wholesale.

I've read that book, perhaps you should read it too - especially the part about what happens when you start with the idea that Person B is entitled to things that Person A has.

[MaxPenguin]

I've got no problem with Social Distancing, staying in your bubble etc.

When the Police start making certain statements - for example, saying you can't drive to the nearest beach even if you are adhering to all of the conditions required, then yes, I have an issue.

When the Police start improvising what is and is not allowed and have to retract it later, that's an even bigger concern. The Police do not have the privilege of interpretation of the Law, that is the domain of the Judiciary and the courts. As for Rules and powers taking precedence over certain rights and liberties, The only answer I can give is the simple one:

No, They do not.

I hear ya, but logistically how much harder do you think a lockdown would be to manage if there were people driving around, to and from beaches, baches , tramping tracks etc. With the limited resources of just the police it would be near impossible, then the military would have to be called in to bolster numbers, curfews set etc, and can you imagine the civil liberterians then? This is the best way, suck it up, it will (hopefully) soon be over-ish.

[R650R]

I've got no problem with Social Distancing, staying in your bubble etc.

When the Police start making certain statements - for example, saying you can't drive to the nearest beach even if you are adhering to all of the conditions required, then yes, I have an issue.

When the Police start improvising what is and is not allowed and have to retract it later, that's an even bigger concern. The Police do not have the privilege of interpretation of the Law, that is the domain of the Judiciary and the courts. As for Rules and powers taking precedence over certain rights and liberties, The only answer I can give is the simple one:

No, They do not.

So they have made a few minor errors... stuff like that they prob really talking to aucklanders, the majority of who would have to drive a significant distance to beach and the close contact that would involve in the limited car parking spaces they have compared to provincial areas.
My neighbour has scanner and there have been heaps of pursuits happening, shitbags out stealing but Comms have been doing their best to encourage this by making cops abandon pursuits on empty roads!
I’ve been driving/riding to essential work and not been pulled over once. Should have army at all major chokepoints checking whose out and about if this lockdown is to be done properly.

[R650R]

There’s two ways this pans out... the virus magically mostly disappears and we return to some form of normal rampant consumerism after being tattooed/implanted with bill gates digital ID2020 social/vaccine passport
Certificate
Of
Vaccination
I
D

Covid

Or this virus turns out to be as nasty as they say it is. Then we have at least three years living under full blown communism to control spread til it naturally mutates itself out of existence as all virus strains do. This will be a major worldwide depression and everyone will be off to workcamps in exchange for food as all western economies will be crippled by the early welfare dolled out to “keep the economy going”

One thing Is for sure either way, given the chance of a crisis govt will pass new laws and taxes to “save us”.... next election will be very interesting

[Katman]

As for Rules and powers taking precedence over certain rights and liberties, The only answer I can give is the simple one:

No, They do not.

Does that go for mandatory vaccination as well?

[TheDemonLord]

I hear ya, but logistically how much harder do you think a lockdown would be to manage if there were people driving around, to and from beaches, baches , tramping tracks etc. With the limited resources of just the police it would be near impossible, then the military would have to be called in to bolster numbers, curfews set etc, and can you imagine the civil liberterians then? This is the best way, suck it up, it will (hopefully) soon be over-ish.

IMO it's the same as allowing people to go to the Supermarket, they managed to do that without much issue. Add in a bonus snide point that going to a supermarket poses more of a risk than going to say, one's privately owned bach or going camping out in the bush.

The burden of proof in this case would be to show that either people when engaging in these activities were breaching the lockdown rules (fair enough) or that the activities themselves could not be done without breaching the lockdown.

On both of those points, the Police can't do that, which is why I take an exceptionally dim view of their conduct.

[MaxPenguin]

IMO it's the same as allowing people to go to the Supermarket, they managed to do that without much issue. Add in a bonus snide point that going to a supermarket poses more of a risk than going to say, one's privately owned bach or going camping out in the bush.

The burden of proof in this case would be to show that either people when engaging in these activities were breaching the lockdown rules (fair enough) or that the activities themselves could not be done without breaching the lockdown.

On both of those points, the Police can't do that, which is why I take an exceptionally dim view of their conduct.

I am sure supermarket trips are factored into the models along with keyboard warriors.

[Gearup]

There’s two ways this pans out... the virus magically mostly disappears and we return to some form of normal rampant consumerism after being tattooed/implanted with bill gates digital ID2020 social/vaccine passport
Certificate
Of
Vaccination
I
D

Covid

Or this virus turns out to be as nasty as they say it is. Then we have at least three years living under full blown communism to control spread til it naturally mutates itself out of existence as all virus strains do. This will be a major worldwide depression and everyone will be off to workcamps in exchange for food as all western economies will be crippled by the early welfare dolled out to “keep the economy going”

One thing Is for sure either way, given the chance of a crisis govt will pass new laws and taxes to “save us”.... next election will be very interesting

Or, how about this? The virus is brought under control, gradually, and we resume our lives, gradually, and sort ourselves out as usual with a few changes like we normally do.

Anyway, The Prime Minister is giving a briefing on Thursday about the whole thing with clarification around level 3 lockdown rules etc.

[sidecar bob]

IMO it's the same as allowing people to go to the Supermarket, they managed to do that without much issue. Add in a bonus snide point that going to a supermarket poses more of a risk than going to say, one's privately owned bach or going camping out in the bush.

The burden of proof in this case would be to show that either people when engaging in these activities were breaching the lockdown rules (fair enough) or that the activities themselves could not be done without breaching the lockdown.

On both of those points, the Police can't do that, which is why I take an exceptionally dim view of their conduct.

Check out this load of crap.
"They think that because they pay rates they have right to be at their bach" well no shit Sandra.
49% of Coromandel ratepayers live outside the district. She should be very careful what she wishes for.
If they traveled before lockdown, then no offence has been committed, and surely transporting your entire bubble to another vacant dwelling of your own ownership doesn't break the bubble rules.
I appreciate what the headline says but she was banging on about it before lockdown.
"Covid 19 coronavirus: Bach owners relocating during lockdown ready for Easter - NZ Herald" https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12322497

[TheDemonLord]

I am sure supermarket trips are factored into the models along with keyboard warriors.

I'm sure they are, but that still doesn't provide a justification, The onus should be on the Police to prove that either people are going to breach the rules by going to their bach or that it can't be done in a way that breaches the rules - and that's where I take umbrage.

[MaxPenguin]

I'm sure they are, but that still doesn't provide a justification, The onus should be on the Police to prove that either people are going to breach the rules by going to their bach or that it can't be done in a way that breaches the rules - and that's where I take umbrage.

Like I said, not enough resources. We have managed to do this without the military, isn't that a great bit of teamwork?

[TheDemonLord]

Like I said, not enough resources. We have managed to do this without the military, isn't that a great bit of teamwork?

Did we have Police monitoring the Supermarkets? No?

Then it's not a case of resources, that's just a cop-out (Pun fully intended).