The FLOW

**sidecar bob** · 24th June 2020, 17:31

Originally Posted by Bonez

I can print one off ig you like then everyone can take advise from to you Bob.

I don't give advice on riding, because the smart don't need it and the stupid don't heed it.
Plus, how do you give advice to a noob that has a 300 with ABS? That's a no consequence for ineptitude situation.

**Bonez** · 24th June 2020, 19:00

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

I don't give advice on riding, because the smart don't need it and the stupid don't heed it.
Plus, how do you give advice to a noob that has a 300 with ABS? That's a no consequence for ineptitude situation.

Speaking of noobs. While doing the test ride yesterday to test out the rear tyre repai r some noob on a small capacity sprot bike who I saw about 600mtrs behind me in my RH rear view mirror while stopped on the left verge of an intersextion had some sort of spaz while turning right down Valley Road. Obviously doesn't know what a stationary m/c parked well left on a verge of the road with rare stoplight on. Was going to follow him and ruin his on the FX but decided not to as his day had obviously already turned to shit.

**nzspokes** · 24th June 2020, 19:01

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

I need to take advice from someone that's got a certificate.

Sounds like it, its the old folk that need the most training.

**Bonez** · 24th June 2020, 19:09

Originally Posted by nzspokes

Sounds like it, its the old folk that need the most training.

See my last post.

**caspernz** · 24th June 2020, 19:16

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

I don't give advice on riding, because the smart don't need it and the stupid don't heed it.
Plus, how do you give advice to a noob that has a 300 with ABS? That's a no consequence for ineptitude situation.

If you're a lifelong rider, and plenty of us are, the plight of the noob is a tad foreign to us.

The problems for the noob that has a 300 with ABS go like this:

1. Can't steer bike around a corner
2. Terrified to look where they want to go
3. What do you mean this lever on right handlebar works the front brake
4. Not using anywhere near enough of that front brake to stop in a hurry

Oh, and some of us have the certificates to offer advice, but your reference to the smart and the stupid is on point for sure.

**sidecar bob** · 24th June 2020, 19:24

Originally Posted by nzspokes

Sounds like it, its the old folk that need the most training.

So what sets this "expert"above me? apart from said bit of paper and the need for employment.

**TheDemonLord** · 24th June 2020, 20:48

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

So what sets this "expert"above me? apart from said bit of paper and the need for employment.

I think you are riding the instructor a little hard (Pun fully intended).

Everytime I've done any form of Course - whether it be Riding, IT or whatever, I invariably learn 'something' - could be small, could be big - but usually there is something.

If you were to observe each-others riding, I'm sure there are differences that you each would observe and be able to offer advice as to why doing it way X is better than way Y.

As an example - I ride with 2 fingers covering the brake at all times, The speed of reaction has IMO helped me avoid unexpected situations - whereas I believe BanditBandit swears by never doing this and that if he needs to brake, he uses all 4 fingers so he can get the maximum leverage on the brake lever.

With all Safety advise - there are some things that are demonstrably unsafe, some things that are demonstrably safe and some things that exist in the murky grey area where it really comes down to personal preference.

TL;DR - both of you stop trying to piss higher on the fence.

**nzspokes** · 24th June 2020, 21:51

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

So what sets this "expert"above me? apart from said bit of paper and the need for employment.

The training they went through to get that bit of paper.

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

I think you are riding the instructor a little hard (Pun fully intended).

Everytime I've done any form of Course - whether it be Riding, IT or whatever, I invariably learn 'something' - could be small, could be big - but usually there is something.

If you were to observe each-others riding, I'm sure there are differences that you each would observe and be able to offer advice as to why doing it way X is better than way Y.

As an example - I ride with 2 fingers covering the brake at all times, The speed of reaction has IMO helped me avoid unexpected situations - whereas I believe BanditBandit swears by never doing this and that if he needs to brake, he uses all 4 fingers so he can get the maximum leverage on the brake lever.

With all Safety advise - there are some things that are demonstrably unsafe, some things that are demonstrably safe and some things that exist in the murky grey area where it really comes down to personal preference.

TL;DR - both of you stop trying to piss higher on the fence.

Eggzakerly. Some will accept training and some will not. Ive not had any form of training in which I have not learnt something.

As a generalization, Ive found the old goats more likely to push back and not accept new concepts.

**Laava** · 24th June 2020, 21:55

Originally Posted by nzspokes

The training they went through to get that bit of paper.

Eggzakerly. Some will accept training and some will not. Ive not had any form of training in which I have not learnt something.

As a generalization, Ive found the old goats more likely to push back and not accept new concepts.

But after all your superiority, you still have not actually, nor anyone else, told us what FLOW is? Do you know and are willing to share? Or just being smugly righteous, Karen styles?

**Berries** · 24th June 2020, 22:09

Originally Posted by Bonez

Obviously doesn't know what a stationary m/c parked well left on a verge of the road with rare stoplight on.

Piss poor parking by the sound of it.

**FJRider** · 24th June 2020, 23:09

Originally Posted by nzspokes

The training they went through to get that bit of paper.

Where did the "Trainers" get their training ... ???

Sounds like the "Chicken and egg" scenario. Which came first ... the trainers ... or the bit of paper ... ???

**Bonez** · 25th June 2020, 01:15

Originally Posted by FJRider

Where did the "Trainers" get their training ... ???

Sounds like the "Chicken and egg" scenario. Which came first ... the trainers ... or the bit of paper ... ???

And the Trainers of those Trainers who taught the Trainers to train.....to produce that certificate.

**Bonez** · 25th June 2020, 07:54

Originally Posted by caspernz

If you're a lifelong rider, and plenty of us are, the plight of the noob is a tad foreign to us.

The problems for the noob that has a 300 with ABS go like this:

1. Can't steer bike around a corner
2. Terrified to look where they want to go
3. What do you mean this lever on right handlebar works the front brake
4. Not using anywhere near enough of that front brake to stop in a hurry

Oh, and some of us have the certificates to offer advice, but your reference to the smart and the stupid is on point for sure.

Something an experienced rider cannot teach them on?

**sidecar bob** · 25th June 2020, 08:57

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

I think you are riding the instructor a little hard (Pun fully intended).

Everytime I've done any form of Course - whether it be Riding, IT or whatever, I invariably learn 'something' - could be small, could be big - but usually there is something.

If you were to observe each-others riding, I'm sure there are differences that you each would observe and be able to offer advice as to why doing it way X is better than way Y.

As an example - I ride with 2 fingers covering the brake at all times, The speed of reaction has IMO helped me avoid unexpected situations - whereas I believe BanditBandit swears by never doing this and that if he needs to brake, he uses all 4 fingers so he can get the maximum leverage on the brake lever.

With all Safety advise - there are some things that are demonstrably unsafe, some things that are demonstrably safe and some things that exist in the murky grey area where it really comes down to personal preference.

TL;DR - both of you stop trying to piss higher on the fence.

I'm glad they have those courses, it demonstrates some real initiative from the govt on the subject, and I'm pleased people are getting value from it.
I have sat through a Ride Forever lecture, and all I keep thinking is, "I can't fuckin believe people need telling this shit" human survival instinct has been bred out of recent generations.
Finger over the brake, I thought everyone did that without being told. Try a 850 twist & go in heavy traffic, it's both hands over both brakes.
Fair enough, I'm an old goat, and when I see the vacuous faces at a ride forever nodding sagely about things I've taken for granted for decades, I'm quite glad I'm not a young goat.
Having said that, I've attended the aviation equivalent of a ride forever course, a pursuit I took up more than three decades after motorcycling chose me, and in that environment I'm one of those vacuous noobs that's absorbing every detail like my life depends upon it.

**FJRider** · 25th June 2020, 10:42

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

Having said that, I've attended the aviation equivalent of a ride forever course, a pursuit I took up more than three decades after motorcycling chose me, and in that environment I'm one of those vacuous noobs that's absorbing every detail like my life depends upon it.

In either pursuit ... Your life does depend on any one of those little "details" ...

I have known a few riders that were (in their own words) "Too good a rider to crash" ... but did anyway. Go figure ...