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Thread: Roads don't cause crashes- bad driving behaviour does

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    As for staying on the left side of the white line... Sadly we even see this on episodes of Top Gear, where the "drivers" fail to keep on one side of the road.
    I am sure someone with more recent experience than me can correct me but growing up in the UK I don’t think they were as anal as they are over here about cutting corners. It was not uncommon to hear the phrase that as they had paid to use the road they would use the full road. This is partly behind my reasoning for happily cutting a right hand corner if I can see clearly that it is safe to do so. Failure to remain in the correct lane was not an offence in the UK like it is here, at least back then.

    Happy to be corrected, but like Top Gear, that’s the way we did it.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I am sure someone with more recent experience than me can correct me but growing up in the UK I don’t think they were as anal as they are over here about cutting corners. It was not uncommon to hear the phrase that as they had paid to use the road they would use the full road. This is partly behind my reasoning for happily cutting a right hand corner if I can see clearly that it is safe to do so. Failure to remain in the correct lane was not an offence in the UK like it is here, at least back then.

    Happy to be corrected, but like Top Gear, that’s the way we did it.
    You're not wrong - When doing my IAM training in the UK one of our members/instructors was a serving Police Officer with experience in road policing/pursuit driving. His line was that if you can see your way clear then it can help you make safe progress. However there was always the caveat that if in doubt don't do it.

    Down my way Queen Charlotte Drive is a classic example of this sort of thing. People cut the corners regularly and often so you've always got to be aware that it may happen. It's still a fantastic road though
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I am sure someone with more recent experience than me can correct me but growing up in the UK I don’t think they were as anal as they are over here about cutting corners. It was not uncommon to hear the phrase that as they had paid to use the road they would use the full road.
    That might be so, but when a vehicle is not seen "he came out of nowhere...". As motorcyclists we already see too much of that mentality.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    You're not wrong - When doing my IAM training in the UK one of our members/instructors was a serving Police Officer with experience in road policing/pursuit driving. His line was that if you can see your way clear then it can help you make safe progress. However there was always the caveat that if in doubt don't do it.

    Down my way Queen Charlotte Drive is a classic example of this sort of thing. People cut the corners regularly and often so you've always got to be aware that it may happen. It's still a fantastic road though
    Yep, "straight lining" a bend sequence was an acceptable practice when I lived there. Road conditions were generally a bit different too. Couldn't say what the standard of driving is like now in the UK. I'm quite comfortable with the "no crossing the white line" here and building it into muscle memory. The Coromandel-Thames coast road is like Queen Charlotte Drive by the numbers who cross the white line. Have seen more than my share of near misses on it and would hate to see a relaxing of the rules as many wouldn't understand the "if in doubt, don't do it" caveat

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    That might be so.....
    Just explaining why you might see it on Top Gear and not on Shortland Street.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Yep, "straight lining" a bend sequence was an acceptable practice when I lived there. Road conditions were generally a bit different too. Couldn't say what the standard of driving is like now in the UK. I'm quite comfortable with the "no crossing the white line" here and building it into muscle memory. The Coromandel-Thames coast road is like Queen Charlotte Drive by the numbers who cross the white line. Have seen more than my share of near misses on it and would hate to see a relaxing of the rules as many wouldn't understand the "if in doubt, don't do it" caveat

    Great last line!

    How many drivers/riders who crossed the centre-line into a head on crash who survived the crash said afterwards "oh yeah, I saw the oncoming car/truck/bike but thought I'd cross to the wrong side of the road anyway"

    Invariably in my experience it's "Shit I didn't see him coming".

    And therein lies the problem in NZ.
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  7. #52
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    The other problem with cutting a corner is the risk it poses to someone trying to overtake. Twice recently I've been about overtake on a RH corner where there was good visibility when the driver cut the corner.

    Please, stay on your side of the road. It's simple enough to do and could save someone's life, maybe even your own.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Yep, "straight lining" a bend sequence was an acceptable practice when I lived there. Road conditions were generally a bit different too. Couldn't say what the standard of driving is like now in the UK. I'm quite comfortable with the "no crossing the white line" here and building it into muscle memory. The Coromandel-Thames coast road is like Queen Charlotte Drive by the numbers who cross the white line. Have seen more than my share of near misses on it and would hate to see a relaxing of the rules as many wouldn't understand the "if in doubt, don't do it" caveat
    Situational awareness and forward observation is generally poor in the average NZ driver/rider. An example being an emergency vehicle coming up from behind on a motorway, those flashing lights are visible for ages in your rearview mirror, but if you don't look at them...
    Low aim steering and tunnel vision are just examples of poor driver education, need I say more


    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    Great last line!

    How many drivers/riders who crossed the centre-line into a head on crash who survived the crash said afterwards "oh yeah, I saw the oncoming car/truck/bike but thought I'd cross to the wrong side of the road anyway"

    Invariably in my experience it's "Shit I didn't see him coming".

    And therein lies the problem in NZ.
    It's been a repeated theme in much of my coaching, a lead rider pointing out something up close for me to take heed of, when I'd already seen it several seconds earlier. Then when I ask about something 12-15 seconds ahead, such as a logging truck coming down a ridge towards a tight bend where we're going to arrive together...most often the lead rider hasn't even scanned that far ahead. Low aim steering and tunnel vision comes to mind again


    Quote Originally Posted by SaferRides View Post
    The other problem with cutting a corner is the risk it poses to someone trying to overtake. Twice recently I've been about overtake on a RH corner where there was good visibility when the driver cut the corner.

    Please, stay on your side of the road. It's simple enough to do and could save someone's life, maybe even your own.
    If you're regularly in the habit of initiating an overtake whilst in a right hand bend, congrats my good man, russian roulette on a motorcycle
    There's nothing wrong with scanning ahead and planning the overtake using a right hand bend, but initiating the overtake before the vehicle ahead has come out of the curve...not overly clever.


    The thing that always bemuses me, when the topic of dangerous roads is tossed about, why is it that so many roads are traveled regularly by so many without issue yet a holiday period will see a disproportionate rise in accidents?
    Driver education is one factor, let's leave it at that
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    If you're regularly in the habit of initiating an overtake whilst in a right hand bend, congrats my good man, russian roulette on a motorcycle
    There's nothing wrong with scanning ahead and planning the overtake using a right hand bend, but initiating the overtake before the vehicle ahead has come out of the curve...not overly clever.


    The thing that always bemuses me, when the topic of dangerous roads is tossed about, why is it that so many roads are traveled regularly by so many without issue yet a holiday period will see a disproportionate rise in accidents?
    Driver education is one factor, let's leave it at that
    No, I don't do it regularly and I wait until I know they are keeping left. I doubt I'd still be posting here otherwise given how many people do cut corners!

    Most people driving on state highways and rural roads either commute or drive for work. They are usually on their own, know the roads well and the only distraction is their phone.

    Come the school holidays, and you have cars with passengers on roads they rarely travel in conditions they are not used to and driving when fatigued. I'm sure there are other factors, but that's a start.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaferRides View Post
    No, I don't do it regularly and I wait until I know they are keeping left. I doubt I'd still be posting here otherwise given how many people do cut corners!

    Most people driving on state highways and rural roads either commute or drive for work. They are usually on their own, know the roads well and the only distraction is their phone.

    Come the school holidays, and you have cars with passengers on roads they rarely travel in conditions they are not used to and driving when fatigued. I'm sure there are other factors, but that's a start.
    Fair enough on your first point.

    On the second one, familiarity also breeds contempt, apart from statistics it's a contributing factor why many crash close to home. Stopping distance being beyond the limit point often the problem.

    On the last one it's simply not driving to the conditions, you've used some factors that make up failing to drive to the conditions. Often as simple as too much speed, not enough distance to stop in, not looking far enough ahead. Absolutely nothing to do with the road itself, all human factors. Yes I know I'm oversimplifying here
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Fair enough on your first point.

    On the second one, familiarity also breeds contempt, apart from statistics it's a contributing factor why many crash close to home. Stopping distance being beyond the limit point often the problem.

    On the last one it's simply not driving to the conditions, you've used some factors that make up failing to drive to the conditions. Often as simple as too much speed, not enough distance to stop in, not looking far enough ahead. Absolutely nothing to do with the road itself, all human factors. Yes I know I'm oversimplifying here
    Spot on man. That has been my observation as well. I think some folk just over think the issue.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Absolutely nothing to do with the road itself, all human factors. Yes I know I'm oversimplifying here
    Yes, I'd agree that you are oversimplifying!

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Fair enough on your first point.

    On the second one, familiarity also breeds contempt, apart from statistics it's a contributing factor why many crash close to home. Stopping distance being beyond the limit point often the problem.

    On the last one it's simply not driving to the conditions, you've used some factors that make up failing to drive to the conditions. Often as simple as too much speed, not enough distance to stop in, not looking far enough ahead. Absolutely nothing to do with the road itself, all human factors. Yes I know I'm oversimplifying here
    I think another factor to do with your last point Rob is that during School holidays people are often driving on unfamiliar roads over unfamiliar distances. In other words if your driving/riding normally consists of going to work and back and you then drive for 3 hours to a different-than-normal destination then a bad outcome is always more likely. People not used to driving at motorway speeds for any length of time too doesn't help. Often during commuting time outside of school holidays people are generally more alert.

    These factors combined with a potentially tricky road design/layout can often be a dangerous combination I reckon. Going in and out of Wellington in recent weeks post lockdown has been an interesting time. It appears to me that normal service has just about resumed now - At least during the times I'm on the roads (0600-0630 and 1600-1640) at any rate.
    Navy Boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaferRides View Post
    Yes, I'd agree that you are oversimplifying!
    It doesn't make his post untrue though ... but if unfamiliar roads are encountered by by this "Holiday traffic" drivers ... the first step for an intelligent driver is to slow down.

    They don't ...

    Some crash.

    Preventable .... yep.

    But it was an accident.


    it wasn't their fault ... Apparently ...
    Sweat wipes off. Road-rash doesn't.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    I think another factor to do with your last point Rob is that during School holidays people are often driving on unfamiliar roads over unfamiliar distances. In other words if your driving/riding normally consists of going to work and back and you then drive for 3 hours to a different-than-normal destination then a bad outcome is always more likely. People not used to driving at motorway speeds for any length of time too doesn't help. Often during commuting time outside of school holidays people are generally more alert.

    These factors combined with a potentially tricky road design/layout can often be a dangerous combination I reckon. Going in and out of Wellington in recent weeks post lockdown has been an interesting time. It appears to me that normal service has just about resumed now - At least during the times I'm on the roads (0600-0630 and 1600-1640) at any rate.
    Absolutely agree Lee. Thing is though, most incidents that I've witnessed over past 30 years have the common factors of poor skills and/or discipline, often mixed with high aggression. The combination of following too close whilst going too fast for the conditions, distracted or impaired, not buckled up...heck, you'll be seeing the same stuff
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