Cannabis referendum.

[Bonez]

Does breaking into their bedroom, via a window, untying them from a bed where they were attempting to commit suicide (thankfully, badly) and calling 111 for an Ambulance count?

That is not what I asked.

[TheDemonLord]

That is not what I asked.

Does that meet your threshold of trying to intervene and help?

[Katman]

I didn't ask them, y'know - too busy worrying about them Dying and all....

But since you asked:

https://www.wikihow.com/Tie-Yourself...eagle-Position

Now kindly stop being a Cunt.

I'm merely trying to establish what degree of credence we should place on your assertion that cannabis was the cause of your friend's downward spiral.

I'm more inclined to think a pre-existing psychological issue was the real cause.

Cannabis has been treated as a convenient scapegoat for long enough.

[Bonez]

Does that meet your threshold of trying to intervene and help?

Was that before or after LSD? I was referring to when you observed your mates were going down hill using dope BEFORE they got hooked on LSD

[onearmedbandit]

I think the issue is more to do with the user in this instance than the substance. Sure weed played its part but only because the user couldn't control their intake. It's akin to blaming Suzuki for making a bike capable of going near on 300kmh and blaming them because you couldn't control yourself and lost your license.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm merely trying to establish what degree of credence we should place on your assertion that cannabis was the cause of your friend's downward spiral.

I'm more inclined to think a pre-existing psychological issue was the real cause.

Cannabis has been treated as a convenient scapegoat for long enough.

After they started getting heavily into Weed, that was when the behavioural shift was noticed, bearing in mind this took place over several years. During which time, as things went bad (due to increasing habitual smoking), so they started to smoke more, make of that what you will - whether you think it's the Chicken or the Egg.

It got to the point where even when they hadn't smoked up in a while (which for them was measured in hours), talking to them - they simply weren't all there, in a way that didn't happen before they started heavily smoking.

There were others I knew (2-3 people) who never went as far as trying to kill themselves (thank fuck), but still were heavy smokers and you could see the cognitive decline it was having on them - they were barely the same person.

Trying to condense observations made over a 5-10 year period for a handful of individuals down into a post, and then getting critiqued that some things have been generalized, especially when that one incident was quite difficult to deal with...

I'm not particularly sorry that the abridged version of events doesn't have the level of detail that you'd like...

I want to be clear: I knew these people before they started smoking (and so had a pretty good baseline reference point) and knew them after several years of heavy regular smoking, they were not the same person and not in the way that people change as they get older and have serious relationships etc.

It was like watching a 100 meter sprinter running along a track and then seeing them trying to run through a swamp - everything was slowed down, ungainly etc. they had turned into a shadow of their former selves.

[TheDemonLord]

Was that before or after LSD? I was referring to when you observed tour mates were going down hill using dope BEFORE they got hooked on LSD

That particular person (the one who tried committing suicide) was before LSD, I only really found out about the LSD stuff when I happened to bump into them several years later.

All of the people that I'm thinking of, I don't think I've seen in 5+ years - so giving them the benefit of time and doubt, they may have turned their lives around. Last I knew of them, they were on the benefit, still more concerned with getting high.

But for the time period where I knew them (which was around from my mid-teens to mid-twenties), I'd seen them drastically change, in a way that others (who, like myself, enjoyed the occassional smoke) didn't.

[scumdog]

I'm merely trying to establish what degree of credence we should place on your assertion that cannabis was the cause of your friend's downward spiral.

I'm more inclined to think a pre-existing psychological issue was the real cause.

Cannabis has been treated as a convenient scapegoat for long enough.

You may be correct re the pre-existing psychological condition but there's a good chance the use of cannabis had exacerbated said conditions - there's evidence that apparently that has been the case in the past.

[Katman]

After they started getting heavily into Weed, that was when the behavioural shift was noticed, bearing in mind this took place over several years. During which time, as things went bad (due to increasing habitual smoking), so they started to smoke more, make of that what you will - whether you think it's the Chicken or the Egg.

It got to the point where even when they hadn't smoked up in a while (which for them was measured in hours), talking to them - they simply weren't all there, in a way that didn't happen before they started heavily smoking.

There were others I knew (2-3 people) who never went as far as trying to kill themselves (thank fuck), but still were heavy smokers and you could see the cognitive decline it was having on them - they were barely the same person.

Trying to condense observations made over a 5-10 year period for a handful of individuals down into a post, and then getting critiqued that some things have been generalized, especially when that one incident was quite difficult to deal with...

I'm not particularly sorry that the abridged version of events doesn't have the level of detail that you'd like...

I want to be clear: I knew these people before they started smoking (and so had a pretty good baseline reference point) and knew them after several years of heavy regular smoking, they were not the same person and not in the way that people change as they get older and have serious relationships etc.

It was like watching a 100 meter sprinter running along a track and then seeing them trying to run through a swamp - everything was slowed down, ungainly etc. they had turned into a shadow of their former selves.

I also know people who are habitual cannabis users - to the point that sparking up is the first thing they do in the day.

The difference being, they didn't spiral downwards like your friends did. In fact, some of them run their own businesses.

So I don't buy the theory that cannabis was the 'cause' of all your friends downfalls.

Like I said, it's been too easy for a long time to blame cannabis for people's own failings. Much like it's all too easy to blame alcohol when a scumbag smacks his wife around when he's pissed.

[Paul in NZ]

I have a sister that works in mental health in Northland… Heavy use of cannabis, particularly in younger people is definitely linked to mental illness… And I’d say that opinion would be the same for anyone in a similar field in a similar area.

However – You can say the same for alcohol as well…

Note I say heavy use – daily and often multiple times per day which isn’t what the usual person would do AND these kids usually come from some dysfunctional situations as well…

It would be nice to think that getting some control over strength and supply would help regulate this but of course it wont.

Personally – if it was legal I would use it a little.

[scumdog]

I also know people who are habitual cannabis users - to the point that sparking up is the first thing they do in the day.

The difference being, they didn't spiral downwards like your friends did. In fact, some of them run their own businesses.

So I don't buy the theory that cannabis was the 'cause' of all your friends downfalls.

Like I said, it's been too easy for a long time to blame cannabis for people's own failings. Much like it's all too easy to blame alcohol when a scumbag smacks his wife around when he's pissed.

But people DO blame alcohol for a lot of evil doing and crime and problems it causes.

(and frequently on KB when comparing its use to that of cannabis use)

[Katman]

But people DO blame alcohol for a lot of evil doing and crime and problems it causes.

That would probably fall under the heading of refusing to accept responsibility for one's own actions.

Now where have we heard that one before?

[Katman]

Personally – if it was legal I would use it a little.

And that right there is one of the very real problems.

A great many people choose not to take advantage of any benefit they might gain from cannabis simply because of an archaic law.

[TheDemonLord]

I also know people who are habitual cannabis users - to the point that sparking up is the first thing they do in the day.

The difference being, they didn't spiral downwards like your friends did. In fact, some of them run their own businesses.

So I don't buy the theory that cannabis was the 'cause' of all your friends downfalls.

Like I said, it's been too easy for a long time to blame cannabis for people's own failings. Much like it's all too easy to blame alcohol when a scumbag smacks his wife around when he's pissed.

Except we noticed the personality changes before it started to fall apart, again - this took place over a period of several years.

Look - I'm not saying you can't smoke regularly and be successful like your business owner friends.
Nor am I saying that what I saw in a handful of people is guaranteed or par for the course.
Nor, for the umpteenth time, am I saying that incidents like this justify it being illegal, the fact that despite all this, I still absolutely support decriminalization should make it clear where I stand.

Only that I know several people whose lives were the cliche of drop-kick stoners.

Most of the other people I knew from that time who enjoyed the occassional smoke (and some of them still do) are doing just fine.

What irks me is when people imply that it's just a prejudicial stereotype with no basis in reality, I've seen that happen several times, first hand - any discussion has to take into account the positive and the negative sides honestly.

I'm genuinely happy for you that you've not experienced this in the circle of people that you know and who choose to Smoke and again, the majority of people who I have known to enjoy the occasional smoke fall into the category of either yourself or OAB, just like the majority of people can enjoy a Beer at the end of the day or a Glass of Wine. To discuss that reality without honestly discussing the other reality or stating that since you've never experienced it, it's an exaggeration or not really true isn't right.

[Katman]

Only that I know several people whose lives were the cliche of drop-kick stoners.

Or maybe they were just drop-kicks waiting for an excuse to come their way.