the clean two-stroke thread

[Flettner]

I assume this thread is more about disscusion on concepts, evaluating running prototypes and theory.
I can show the occasional pictures of my uniflow here but the build pictures I'll take back to the Bucket Foundry, yes?

[husaberg]

2020
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/mot...stroke-hybrid/

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https://www.sae.org/publications/tec...ontent/260039/




it took me 1/2 to find this in Drapers book it was described as having a rotary valve in the transfer port
so as best as i can figure out it had a disc valve controlled inlet air only port situated where a transfer port would normally be.

ISSN: 0148-7191, e-ISSN: 2688-3627
DOI: https://doi.org/10.4271/260039
Published January 01, 1926 by SAE International in United States
Annotation ability available

Sector:Automotive
Event:Pre-1964 SAE Technical Papers
Language:English
Abstract
Development of the two-cycle high-speed supercharged engine used in the Duesenberg racing cars that competed in the 1926 500-mile Indianapolis race is described. Excessive trouble in starting the engine, which requires considerably higher supercharger pressure than does the four-cycle engine, inclined the designer and builder to abandon the idea of using this type of engine in the race. The supercharger gear-ratio was not laid out for the extreme speeds and, as the engine speed is directly proportional to the supercharger pressure, the pressure was too low to give the desired speed. The speed and efficiency of the engine were increased by increasing the width of the cylinder intake-ports, but the author believes a supercharger pressure of 15 lb. per sq. in. is necessary for good operation. Best results were obtained when the rotary valve opened the intake valve after the exhaust ports had been opened about 3/16 in. As the pressure of the supercharger increased, better results were secured by setting the rotary valve to open the intake ports still later.
Although a number of piston-rings broke and pulled pieces out of the pistons when the car was first run on the Indianapolis Speedway, the engine continued to run, and the author concludes that, even in its imperfect state, the engine is not so delicate as a four-cycle engine and will run better, even though many things may be wrong with it, than will a four-cycle engine with only minor things wrong. The timing was unexpectedly sensitive, resulting in “popping-back” when the intake valve was opened a little too soon and in insufficient mixture charge in the cylinder when the valve was opened a little too late. It is believed this trouble can be controlled by the pressure of the supercharger.
By admitting cooling water around the exhaust port and then circulating it around the spark-plugs, steam pockets were avoided, the engine ran cooler, and the spark-plugs were much cooler than in the four-cycle engine.
Discussion of the paper concerns the amount of engine power required to drive the supercharger, speed of the supercharger, number of piston-rings used on the pistons, the maximum engine-speed, the gear-ratio of the car, the cylinder compression-ratio, the engine idling-speed, the ignition firing order, spark-advance, type of spark-plug used, relative size of supercharger used on the two-cycle and the four-cycle engine, lubrication of the two-cycle engine, location of the rotary valve in the cylinder-head instead of on the side, flexibility or efficient speed-range of the engine, the use of high-speed engines in future private passenger-cars, type of crankshaft used in the Miller racing-car engine, maximum speed of the Miller engine and supercharger, the supercharger drive, probable future of front-wheel drive in passenger-cars, unsprung front-end weight with this type of drive, experiments with worm-drive in racing cars, the use of “doped” fuels, battery versus magneto ignition, steel used in the steering-arms and steering-knuckles, and the like.

i will scan the description from Draper book


in hindsight i think it is a open disc like a aspin as above rather than a disc valve like a MZ or Kawaski

[Flettner]

Bastard Gull.
Stopped selling E85.
So now what, even getting ethanol in 200L drums its $4 per L.
Covid19 hand cleaner is the reason.
Barstards, do I have to brew my own after all bugger it.
I want to run my 'special' engine on this stuff.

[husaberg]

Bastard Gull.
Stopped selling E85.
So now what, even getting ethanol in 200L drums its $4 per L.
Covid19 hand cleaner is the reason.
Barstards, do I have to brew my own after all bugger it.
I want to run my 'special' engine on this stuff.

from memory most of the ethanol in NZ comes from lactose co
Which will be owned by Fontera
https://nzic.org.nz/app/uploads/2017/10/3H.pdf


this might be what its called now
https://www.lactanol.com/

[WilDun]

I assume this thread is more about disscusion on concepts, evaluating running prototypes and theory.
I can show the occasional pictures of my uniflow here but the build pictures I'll take back to the Bucket Foundry, yes?

Yep, good idea, I also had planned to add some stuff there (at the lower end of the scale!) - but too much other stuff going on at the moment.
The foundry thread is a little starved just at the moment and all your info I'm sure would be welcome there - occasionally some people here may need to be directed there when new and interesting foundry stuff and photos come in.

BTW, I believe that our "methylated spirits" is now methanol free and is 100% ethanol now - but I'm sure you know that! - Ethylated Spirits??

[Norman]

And others, indeed Norman.
Attachment 346873 Attachment 346871 Attachment 346872
Seriously, I would buy an E-car today if I could have an 800 km range, and charging points without waiting lists everywhere.

I like the pictures there Frits, makes my morning even better!

Personally, I like HEVs better, have a problem with a car filled with 5-600 kg of batteries. The latest I heard was that Cobalt is still needed to make them, and a lot of that comes from Kongo. I do not think even the car manufacturers have the full picture how this is taken up from the ground and subsequent steps. But the process is accepted as long as a signed paper could be shown to them that everything is quite ok..Well, to their defence, the purchasing departments have, since some time, got instructions to dig deeper into their supplier chains, and we will see where that leads.

I famous swedish girl said some time ago that we do not have so much time left to save the planet and we need to do something now! Some think BEVs is the answer to her call. For city environment, it can be good, but to save the planet? I am not too sure. I think BEVs with 500 kg batteries should not be used for example by people having 15 km to work and definitely not be bought to be put in the garage only for Sunday afternoon rides.
Maybe it even should be regulated somehow. Another interesting question is where our older vehicles are ending up? Well, a fact is that a lot of them will live on in Africa for many many years.

[WilDun]

If everyone is herded into using BEV, - what happens to the discarded batteries? - will it become a worse problem than either plastic containers or air pollution?

[lohring]

The same thing that happens with lead acid batteries that contain toxic things like lead. Things like cobalt and lithium should be less expensive to mine in junk batteries than in the ground. I use my model racing batteries for less demanding applications after a season or so of racing. Automobile packs that have lost capacity can be used in stationary applications. The transition will be gradual. In the mean time we should be able to build better IC engines.

Lohring Miller

[WilDun]

The same thing that happens with lead acid batteries that contain toxic things like lead. Things like cobalt and lithium should be less expensive to mine in junk batteries than in the ground. .......................... In the mean time we should be able to build better IC engines.
Lohring Miller

Yes it's time to give IC engines the once over, redesign them for use in conjunction with electric transmission techniques so (to me) that would mean mainly 'hybrid" operation, with perhaps only a 'light load' of batteries! -
(B.T.W. - not to be seen as a statement of course, more a suggestion ....... or a question!).

[Norman]

https://www.obrist-powertrain.com

One independent company working with what we are discussing here for cars. I saw they were at the IAA last year and asked them why not E85 and they said that that it can be an option if the availability of E85 can be secured. I guess that a dual fuel option should be possible. But, the big question, are they using the wrong combustion engine type? A four stroke is used today. What would a two stroke alternative be, how should it be designed to make it interesting for this application? What is needed to make a two stroke competitive here?

[breezy]

nice one husaberg...read most of it .... now i have a head ache it seems as though jumping through hoops for the 2 stroke to comply has been established by those who decide the rules.. and then some... the options of F1 cars taking up this 2 stroke opposed engine set up seem almost impossible with 2t exhaust set ups as we know them... turbo charging and putting all the exhaust fumes through a number of filters would seem the only option to comply.

[breezy]

I assume this thread is more about disscusion on concepts, evaluating running prototypes and theory.
I can show the occasional pictures of my uniflow here but the build pictures I'll take back to the Bucket Foundry, yes?

Flettner,

will your opposed engine have a turbo? how will you lubricate big and small ends?

[Flettner]

Flettner,

will your opposed engine have a turbo? how will you lubricate big and small ends?

Sorry Breezy, I haven't got round to doing a picture yet, Ill get onto it.
No turbo, crank case pump for compactness and simple (er).
Bigend oiling is like my 360 Mk2 TPI engine. Direct to the bigend through a hollow crankshaft, air assist, autolube.

[WilDun]

Sorry Breezy, I haven't got round to doing a picture yet, Ill get onto it.
No turbo, crank case pump for compactness and simple (er).
Bigend oiling is like my 360 Mk2 TPI engine. Direct to the bigend through a hollow crankshaft, air assist, autolube.

Will your Autolube system be similar to the system used by Suzuki in the T20, T250/350 etc - ie 50 years ago? (except for the air assist) - and will it be 'total loss', - ie. will it end up in the air/fuel mix?

[Flettner]

Will your Autolube system be similar to the system used by Suzuki in the T20, T250/350 etc - ie 50 years ago? (except for the air assist) - and will it be 'total loss', - ie. will it end up in the air/fuel mix?

Yes, this version.
Next version, no.