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Thread: the clean two-stroke thread

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    I don't think that a guy with a home workshop ( even coming up with radical and successful stuff would really stand a chance in the patent scene today without a big company (with smart lawyers) backing him and shouldering the costs !

    Then there are big and influential people in this world, using politics and financial clout to twist a patent to suit themselves or in some cases just ignoring it altogether!

    So yeah, a good idea to carry on as enthusiasts and just keep our little victories to ourselves! - I'm getting to an age now where I can not see any point in guys trying to successfully develop a product, just to have it snatched from under their noses and being unable to do a thing about it!

    Life's too short to put yourself through all that stress - I watched a guy from Europe (not too long ago) trying to be big time in the international scene and who more or less went down still kicking and fighting and finally getting nowhere - very very sad to see!) - but still, the sense of achievement you would get from beating the big boys from home must be fantastic!

    I will never achieve even that, but I'm just as enthusiastic as I was 54 years ago when I first arrived in NZ - and way before that!!
    You only need to look at the past with TV and Philo Taylor Farnsworth.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWIN4vN2g8
    and radio patents and Edison vs Tesla and others. Not to mention ford and Ferguson to see might and money often wins out over ingenuity.
    But history has a way of righting a few wrongs. Eventually
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  2. #47
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    So, Lets use the only Power we little guys have and Stick it to the MAN!....

    Public disclosure renders your/any Brilliant Idea no longer 'novel'....

    A patented invention must be novel. Exposure in a 'public forum' such as this renders it 'common knowledge' and no longer eligible for patent.

    So a major European company cannot patent the brilliant idea of someone who develops something special and allows info about it to be published on the other side of the world.

    Nice outline of the process here from PhoenixIP , or they might be very helpful if you Do want to protect your invention:
    http://www.phoenixip.com.au/patents/...tent-validity/

    Fortunately, we have a worldwide group of clever people, "knowledgeable in the art", to keep a look out for Pricks who think the rules don't apply to them.


    Cheers, Daryl

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    HaHa, sadly not ours. Talk talk talk but no do, thats New Zealand for you, I have approached two universities now, not interested. The only person I could intetest years ago was John Britten but he wanted OP uniflow to get around the number of cylinders rules for GP racing not emissions.
    Patent Attorneys are not efficent, financially, personal experiance.
    Who is seriously intetested? There are a lot of talkers.

    NZ has now stopped selling E85, I talked to the Green party about what they might do to fix this, they just said we all need to be electric, with seemingly not a thought to where that 'magic' might come from.
    Boy do I sound like and angry old man.

    I'm in this for the challenge, but I will be keeping my OP developments to myself this time. My problem is I enjoy this kind of work, pitty It doesn't pay.

    Yes, to take help from Attorney can be painfully expensive for a private person. A lot you can do yourself (with the right Attorney) but It is however shit difficult to write the patent completely on your own. If I had a good Idea, I wish I had a retired Attorney friend or family member.. Then you have the filing cost. But some countries/regions encourage patents. For example Canada seems to try and keep filing costs down to a number of $100. Quite cheap also to get a representative there (must have) to file it for you. Also interesting when EU late 2021, hopefully, get the "EU unity patent" in place. With one application you get a patent automatically granted in about 30 countries. The yearly fees will be "reasonable".

    Your work is for sure appreciated by many and it is for sure fascinating!

    So they do not sell E85..? As I understand, it is now possible to easier convert CO2 to ethanol (don't ask me the very details), let's see if it soon can be developed into a fully industrial scale.

    I believe the combustion engine in different forms is here to stay for a long time yet. Plenty of time for you to come across future new possibilities.

  4. #49
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    Thankyou, all well considered responses.

    Cost of patenting is one thing, defending it is another. Years ago a patent attorney told me I would need at least $100,000 USD to defend a patent on my orginal Uniflow design. I did provisionally patent it but in those days no one was interested in taking up OP uniflow.

    My new design is quite different and will work as a single cylinder, old one relied on pairs of cylinders.

    Anyway no use even thinking that far ahead yet, lets see how well it works first. If you have been looking at Bucket Foundry you will see I've been having some manufacturing issues. This will be rectified shortly as Im in the process of converting my CO2 wood core boxes to metal dies, shell sand process. This will solve the problem. What did I read recently, Ken, 'success is the ability to move from one failure to the next, without losing enthusiasm'. So jolly true.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pursang View Post
    So, Lets use the only Power we little guys have and Stick it to the MAN!....

    Public disclosure renders your/any Brilliant Idea no longer 'novel'....

    A patented invention must be novel. Exposure in a 'public forum' such as this renders it 'common knowledge' and no longer eligible for patent.

    So a major European company cannot patent the brilliant idea of someone who develops something special and allows info about it to be published on the other side of the world.

    Nice outline of the process here from PhoenixIP , or they might be very helpful if you Do want to protect your invention:
    http://www.phoenixip.com.au/patents/...tent-validity/

    Fortunately, we have a worldwide group of clever people, "knowledgeable in the art", to keep a look out for Pricks who think the rules don't apply to them.


    Cheers, Daryl
    Looks like we have to decide whether we are in it for the hobby, or make it a serious business and if we do decide that we're serious about patenting there will be a quantum leap! and very quickly our happy little hobby will become our "back in the happy old days" and our new all consuming hobby will be in defending ourselves, consuming all our time and money and at the same time destroying any inventive ability (through lack of time) in doing so! (example the Wright brothers, and many many others).

    Harry Ferguson and Henry Ford were a strange case, they were good mates it would seem till Ford's son took over and then there was turmoil when he took control of Ferguson's patent being used on Ford tractors (it had all started with only a "handshake agreement).

    In the end Ferguson (supposedly) won and it continued for a while as the Ford Ferguson, then Ferguson started to produce his "Ferguson" (basically a copy of the Ford tractor but now fitted with the excellent (Standard designed) engine and of course fitted with his hydraulic system. - didn't do a lot of good though - Ferguson, who even though he was a success, eventually took his own life.
    So the moral is :- "success" doesn't always guarantee happiness in life!

    Generally though, I think that we all believe that a clean two stroke engine could bring happiness!....... Eh!
    Strokers Galore!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Generally though, I think that we all believe that a clean two stroke engine could bring happiness!....... Eh!
    I'm with you Bill!

    30 years ago I was arrogant enough to think I could improve the world AND be handsomely rewarded for it.

    Now, I'm just happy to be here to witness the efforts and progress of some Very Clever, Capable, people and add my encouragement & 0c worth, when I can!

    Cheers, Daryl.

  7. #52
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    Sorry again for casting another video in Spanish.
    This video is only 3 months old, it is not a video of decades ago, with which the motorcycles that are from past decades.
    The video is the recording of the motorcycle refueling authorized by the Venezuelan government for a single day and a certain amount of motorcycle fuel.
    In these circumstances, the motorcycle it suits more: a simple 4S carburettor or a sophisticated 2S TPI
    The TPI can make the consumption equal to the 4S, but its price is a brake.

  8. #53
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    The true technological advance is the one that reaches the whole world, and not the one that reaches the lucky few

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceci View Post
    The true technological advance is the one that reaches the whole world, and not the one that reaches the lucky few
    Cost, imagine the cost if KTM had stuck to their DI.
    TPI should be no more expensive ( cheaper in fact ) than a fuel injected fourstroke.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    Cost, imagine the cost if KTM had stuck to their DI.
    TPI should be no more expensive ( cheaper in fact ) than a fuel injected fourstroke.
    I see that TM-Racing is using F-TPI on some of their 2-stroke enduros. And claims meeting EURO4 emissions.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    I see that TM-Racing is using F-TPI on some of their 2-stroke enduros. And claims meeting EURO4 emissions.
    All things being equal, I should have one of those soon. I will report on its efficiency.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    All things being equal, I should have one of those soon. I will report on its efficiency.
    So I guess we should just wait and see ..... if we are all patient, things will become much clearer as to what is actually happening and speculation will no longer be necessary!- whatever the answer really is, I hope it'll eventually be a step in the right direction towards making the two stroke respectable again!
    Strokers Galore!

  13. #58
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    Now that Ken has posted pictures of the new version of the head for his UHV System (Well done Ken!) I want to post my thoughts on reverse uniflow.

    After my rejection of poppet valves on the grounds of weight & complexity, Ken's working demonstration of reeds in the squish was a Revelation.
    Engine speed, cam driven valves might offer significant efficiency improvement over 4 strokes, but with a high level of mechanical complexity.
    A real 2 Stroke (even a Clean, Modern one) should have a minimum of moving parts.


    Many reverse uniflow engines use external pumps to 'push' the exhaust out of the cylinder, with the risk of over scavenging and allowing fresh charge to escape.
    Others have attempted to create a Uniform Slug of fresh mixture to do the same, with the same result of charge escape.

    My proposal is: Rather than trying to 'push' the exhaust out with the fresh charge, concentrate on directing charge Into the combustion chamber.

    Advantages:
    A) Purest (undiluted) charge for next ignition, (At all engine speeds, and throttle openings), so no 4 stroking, failed cycles.
    B) Coolest chamber temp, so can run higher comp & engine operating temp (aiming for as adiabatic as possible)
    C) Stratification of the charge (allows High comp / lean Burn / fast combustion) see F) below.
    D) The chamber overflow can just 'follow' the exhaust down the cylinder. Exhaust porting configured for 'even escape' (3 or more ports)
    E) Depending on throttle opening, engine speed and cylinder bore/stroke and exhaust config, reed area & rate, charging could be timed to Stop (just) before EPC,
    F) Compression stroke will compress and mix the diluted & heated charge and any residual exhaust up against the 'full' chamber (C)for 'enhanced' ignition by A).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Undoubtably, there will be significant Flaws in my reasoning! But this is the best forum to thrash them out. or Discuss like Gentlemen!

    Cheers, Daryl.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pursang View Post
    Now that Ken has posted pictures of the new version of the head for his UHV System (Well done Ken!) I want to post my thoughts on reverse uniflow. .........................
    Many reverse uniflow engines use external pumps to 'push' the exhaust out of the cylinder, with the risk of over scavenging and allowing fresh charge to escape.................
    There are a few ways of controlling this by things like asymmetric timing of the exhaust (talking uniflow here of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pursang View Post
    Others have attempted to create a Uniform Slug of fresh mixture to do the same, with the same result of charge escape.
    Not so sure that the slug pushes it out, as its momentum (when it is released will continue to drag everything out through a (straight) pipe!
    This could make a hybrid type transmission become feasibile with an engine remaining in a narrow rev band and not requiring any changes in port timing,( once they are established) - ironically, this layout would also be suitable for a chamber too (designed to suit this particular rev band) - but as many of you know, I despise any chance of the two charges mixing - and chambers are good at that!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Pursang View Post
    there will be significant Flaws in my reasoning! But this is the best forum to thrash them out. or Discuss like Gentlemen!
    Well, we are all gentlemen here! - and I don't think there are any girls! - (yes, yes I know, - "sexist bastard" ..... "armchair engineer").
    Strokers Galore!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Not so sure that the slug pushes it out, as its momentum (when it is released will continue to drag everything out through a (straight) pipe!
    Yes, saying the transfer slug pushes the exhaust out was 'Pushing it'. Displacing residual combustion products might be a more accurate term.

    Cheers,Daryl

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