have you ? I have ideas but because I don't like been knocked down. I dont offer I just get on with it.Originally Posted by Flettner
i'm a wanker
have you ? I have ideas but because I don't like been knocked down. I dont offer I just get on with it.
i'm over buckets
Anorak
I wasnt meaning speed just $$$$$
PIston like a banana no idea
this guy speed of cheese was doing pistons
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Weekend cruiser
The technology is already out there. Find a way around the patents and two strokes shall live on.
Hardcore Biker
Condyn,
The ETEC technology is successful, well known and is evolving it seems, but the big test is whether BRP pursue it to an automotive / motorcycle application. ETEC, a derivative of the Ficht that sent OMC broke, has been around for many years, possibly enough for many key patent claims to be now expired.
Love to see any additional clean ideas here though.
Unburnt fuel being the #1 objective.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
Muddler/Dabbler.
All the same applies to me except that I'm an ex "hands on engineer" more commonly known as "armchair engineer"- retired a long time ago - maybe even a 'wanker' too, like yourself!). ..... well, you said it!.
Liked the video, took me right back to all the smoke and rattles on the overrun etc. That guy was probably right of course at the time he put the video online but we don't have to listen to his miserable predictions!
I like all engines as well, but I was always very keen on two strokes, ie when I found that they were used on bikes (as well as model aircraft)!.
Still, the beautiful smell of Castrol R was was engraved on my brain from the very early sixties (from the days of Manx Nortons, Goldies, 7R etc.) - pity it used to gum up the rings on my T20 so I had to change!
Always been a two stroke fan of course and I don't think we should give up on it just yet, it's still got potential - but it's got to change big time and also needs sales in order to make a comeback, and those sales will come from all the millions of commuters in third world countries.
We need to change it to be less race orientated,- a little more subdued, flexible, clean running and economical machine to suit that category.
When the market is filling up with that type of bike, then racing will again grow out of that! - and you can guarantee there will be a lot of guys wanting to modify and improve them (so Bucket Racing will be saved).
These classes may not have the traditional type transmission of course - but the guys who do scooter racing seem to be enjoying them just the same!
Strokers Galore!
Muddler/Dabbler.
That's probably more difficult than designing something revolutionary from scratch! - at least you could just go ahead and do that in your garage without employing a lawyer!
Strokers Galore!
Weekend cruiser
If you have never been around an etec fueled engine, its something amazing. They take the “ purr like a kitten “ phrase to a new level. Modifying an existing engine however is a challenge. I plan on adding a turbocharger to my etec injected snowmobile and will have to add supplementary fuel injectors which will surely short circuit some, reducing the huge advantage of the direct injectors. BRP released a Factory turbocharged two stroke etec fueled snowmobile in 2019 being sold now. I really dont see a death to that market in the near future. There are a few manufacturers selling loads of two strokes that arent direct injection. The etec system really could be the future! Though it should be noted to never underestimate the power of greed
Its nice to see different ideas that are more practical for the masses. Personally I would rather ride a wet fart 4 stroke than have an exhaust valve on a 2 stroke. That takes the fun right out of it.
Hardcore Biker
Common rail is only equipped by Fiat cars, not of course they sold the patent to Bosch and now all car manufacturers use it.
DiTech the same as the common rail but scooter
Forum whore
In fact I do, I believe I've contributed my fair share.
Contribute away.
Muddler/Dabbler.
Flettner is correct in what he says .....
You could say he has cracked it, because I'm told that KTM have (unsuccessfully so far) tried to patent his injection system (if that's not proof of concept what is?).
Everyone in the sport here knows it works, - its in his (enduro) Kawasaki Bighorn ) and he has been using that for quite some time! - This machine also uses many other important and successful improvements and innovations that he has developed over the years!
Condyn
I know it's hard to change, this is seen as fun in your sport (and rightly so - it is fun) Etec sure seems to be one way to go and it is certainly a huge step forward, although at the moment it seems to be primarily used in competition and the never ending search for more BHP/litre!
I'm sure it could be adapted for use in a more humble two stroke (too expensive at the moment I'm sure).
Mr Bucketracer, ....... everyone who comes up with new ideas (or even working concepts) and tries to explain them to others will get knocked back!
Flettner just gets on with it and accepts the concept of a high failure rate in order to eliminate the stuff which won't work (tries every avenue)!
Ken's quote at the end of all his posts, is very inspirational!
Strokers Galore!
Hardcore Biker
Ceci,
I'm a little confused. DiTech is the application (by Aprilia for their 50 cc scooter) of Orbital's injection system. This is not common rail in that the fuel is not injected through an injector by a very high system pressure. In the Ditech, the fuel is injected and atomised by the use of air pressure supplied by a small compressor driven by a cam on a crank web. From memory it might have had a 6 mm stroke with a 25 bore.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
Muddler/Dabbler.
Yep, that video was clever and interesting stuff of course, but I see it as last ditch efforts to keep a dying traditional design still in circulation (but does it really make sense?).
That cylinder looks like a kitchen grater, doing a good job on the piston and rings) - then, a (lightweight for sure) piston which doubles as a crosshead, rocks like hell and doesn't really cope well with side thrust it's being asked to take! - all lubricated by some oily petrol! - that's not progress, it's clutching at straws!
We need to move on and take a quantum leap and totally redesign things.
Strokers Galore!
Anorak
Bosch had 2 stroke Direct injection in the 1950's on the Gutbrod Superior 600 and Goliath GP 700.
it was mechanical but
Alfa Romeo 6C had electronic fuel injection in 1940
https://autouniversum.wordpress.com/...uel-injection/
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...551317231.htmlAs was typical of Carl F. W. Borgward, he didn't stop there, but instead worked together with Bosch to make the very promising carburation system fit for series production. After three years of development work, BORGWARD's Goliath brand became the first automaker besides Gutbrod to present a vehicle with direct petrol injection. The automobile in question, a Goliath sports coupé, was unveiled at the IAA motor show in Frankfurt in April 1951. It was another technical milestone from BORGWARD. The new two-stroke engine consumed just 5.9 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres. Moreover, at 29 hp, its output was 10 per cent higher than its predecessor's. Specific fuel consumption declined from 330 grams per hp and hour to 225 grams. This decrease was actually slightly greater than the 30 per cent that the technicians had forecast.
Mazada new HCI engine i think has some ideas that can be pilfered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
or this
https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2012-32-0119/
tpi 2012Multi-Layer Stratified (MuLS) Two-Stroke Engine 2012-32-0119
The mandatory emission regulations coupled with market demands have resulted in the development of innovative engine technologies at lower costs for consumer applications. For example, the low cost two-stroke engines for hand-held applications have evolved from high specific output, high emission designs to lower emission engine architectures that meet today's EPA and CARB emission standards. Emissions and fuel consumption have reduced significantly, particularly in non-catalyzed engines. This paper highlights the design features of a Multi-Layered Stratified (MuLS) engine that has demonstrated the ability to meet the current emission standards without the catalyst. The Multi-Layer scavenging system consists of stratified layers of pure air, lean air-fuel mixture, and rich air-fuel mixture that are inducted separately and delivered in sequence into the combustion chamber through ports for minimizing the scavenging loss of the unburned fuel. A 25.4cc production two-stroke engine was modified to demonstrate the proof of the concept.
https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2012-32-0115/
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Hardcore Biker
I was referring to the fact that the common rail and the DiTech do not work the same, they are equal in success, because both systems prevailed in their sector over the rest.
the ETEC system (Ficht) assimilated it (in commercial success, and somewhat similar in mechanical design) to the Volkswagen diesel pump injector.
When a system is successful, it is easily extended since commercial agreements are reached that immediately make them sell.
Forum whore
I was under the impression that DiTech almost drove Aprilia into bankruptcy when they mass-marketed a version that was still underdeveloped.
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