Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: CBTA Restricted (automatic) fail.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    2nd December 2020 - 14:35
    Bike
    2018, Kawsaki Vulcan S
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3

    CBTA Restricted (automatic) fail.

    I took my CBTA R test last week, and everything was going well (other than the weather, it was raining, visibility wasn't great). Did all the urban assessment no problem, u-turns, parking, roundabouts, intersections, giveways & stops. All good.

    Got on the open road, hit some road works, temporary traffic lights. Again all good.

    As we're coming back from the open/country road into a township (Kumeu, Auckland) we come up to a traffic light ahead maybe 40-50m ahead. There is a railway crossing before the traffic light. The traffic light has gone red just as I get to the railway crossing so I stop before crossing as there is a car & trailer on the other side of the crossing, between the crossing and red light.

    I see there's space behind the trailer, so I cross the railway (no crossing lights or barrier, no train etc) and stop behind the trailer.

    This was an automatic fail from the instructor.

    I ask why, and I'm told the "do not pass a red light" rule.

    I don't quite understand at the time and text the instructor later and I'm told if the traffic light is red, I have to stop at the railway crossing and not pass THOSE red lights- even though the crossing lights are NOT on, its just the traffic lights ahead.

    I've tried to find this online (Google, LTSA website, roadcode website) in the road code, cos I've never heard of this rule before for railway crossings (obviously- stop, do not cross, do not race the train. red lights going just stop).

    Does anyone know or can cite this somewhere for me that would be super helpful

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    25th January 2008 - 17:56
    Bike
    Africa Twin! 2018 all the fruit!
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,336
    Methinks he was lining the companies pockets, if the railway lights are flashing,OBVIOUSLY you'd stop.
    I believe he's wrong. Just my opinion.
    Better instructornext time aye.
    Every day above ground is a good day!:

  3. #3
    Join Date
    19th January 2013 - 16:56
    Bike
    a 400 and a 650 :-)
    Location
    The Isthmus
    Posts
    1,590
    If this is the intersection in question, Tawa Rd onto Main Rd, Kumeu, looking at this streetview from Google maps would suggest you went against a red traffic light which is situated on the western side of the railway line when you crossed the railway line and got onto the end of the queue at the other side. There are further traffic lights on the eastern side of the railway line as well.

    https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.7...7i16384!8i8192

    It's probably one of those situations where a "Stop Here When Lights Are Red" sign on the western side traffic lights would remove any chance of ambiguity.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    15th February 2017 - 13:17
    Bike
    '21 Ducati Multistrada 950S
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    440
    It does sound like that set of traffic lights. And yes it's confusing. But looks like OP crossed the railway track and ignored the very first set of traffic lights.

    Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    28th May 2006 - 19:35
    Bike
    suzuki
    Location
    lower hutt
    Posts
    7,918
    red lights as plain as day in the google image, they've put a set there for a reason, and clearly you ran a red light, suck it up and stop whinging.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    5th December 2009 - 12:32
    Bike
    It was on the good
    Location
    ship Venus, by Chri
    Posts
    3,154

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by nzbikeguy View Post
    There is a railway crossing before the traffic light.
    That is one messed up intersection with two limit lines. Can see why it is confusing but if the light is red you would stop where the Conroys van is in the linked image. You said however that the rail line is before the traffic signal which is not strictly true if this is the intersection in question.

    Basically in the direction shown there are two controlled intersections, the first before the rail line and the second after, presumably showing the very same signal. Makes no sense to me having that primary aspect prior to the rail crossing but then hey, Auckland.

    Quote Originally Posted by nzbikeguy View Post
    I don't quite understand at the time and text the instructor later and I'm told if the traffic light is red, I have to stop at the railway crossing and not pass THOSE red lights- even though the crossing lights are NOT on, its just the traffic lights ahead
    I've bolded some words. Should have been if the traffic light is red you stop at the limit line and don't pass THAT red light. To some extent the rail crossing is irrelevant as those lights were not flashing but then that is clearly the reason for the non-standard layout. No doubt too many dickheads queuing back over the railway line when it does start flashing.

    Bad luck, move on, you'll know next time. Would suggest before your next test you talk this through with the examiner in case you go that way again and the lights change. Would be surprised if there are many other intersections around the country with signals laid out that way. It's a bit Mickey Mouse if you ask me.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    14,126
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    red lights as plain as day in the google image, they've put a set there for a reason, and clearly you ran a red light, suck it up and stop whinging.
    I'd say a few truck and trailer units have been caught there in the past. Probably a few cars caught there too.

    That line painted across the road before the rail crossing is there for a reason.

    And regardless of rule of law ... if the tester say's you've failed ... you can rest assured that you have DEFINITLY failed. They have the authority to make that decision.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    19th January 2013 - 16:56
    Bike
    a 400 and a 650 :-)
    Location
    The Isthmus
    Posts
    1,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    That is one messed up intersection...It's a bit Mickey Mouse if you ask me.
    If you want a few others that are "interesting" railway level crossings on the Western line, look for:

    1. Normanby Rd crossing
    2. Morningside Drive crossing
    3. Asquith Avenue crossing
    4. Woodward Rd crossing
    5. Ranui Station crossing

    The subbies don't go as far as Kumeu but where they do operate, the morning and evening peaks there are trains every 10 minutes... makes for interesting level crossing queues, especially Morningside Drive as two trains may cross at Morningside station so you wait for both of them... Asquith Avenue is similar because of Baldwin Avenue station's position just west of Rossgrove Tce.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    2nd December 2020 - 14:35
    Bike
    2018, Kawsaki Vulcan S
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    If this is the intersection in question, Tawa Rd onto Main Rd, Kumeu, looking at this streetview from Google maps would suggest you went against a red traffic light which is situated on the western side of the railway line when you crossed the railway line and got onto the end of the queue at the other side. There are further traffic lights on the eastern side of the railway line as well.

    https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.7...7i16384!8i8192

    It's probably one of those situations where a "Stop Here When Lights Are Red" sign on the western side traffic lights would remove any chance of ambiguity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper View Post
    It does sound like that set of traffic lights. And yes it's confusing. But looks like OP crossed the railway track and ignored the very first set of traffic lights.

    Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

    Thank you Moi and Jeeper- you guys nailed it in one! I never even saw those red lights on the day (visibility was terrible- reason, no excuse)- only saw the crossing lights for some reason and the red lights other side of tracks. 100% my fault- I knew it was a fair fail, I just didn't understand why. Now I understand, and won't have any surprises on the next one. Much appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    That is one messed up intersection with two limit lines. Can see why it is confusing but if the light is red you would stop where the Conroys van is in the linked image. You said however that the rail line is before the traffic signal which is not strictly true if this is the intersection in question.

    Basically in the direction shown there are two controlled intersections, the first before the rail line and the second after, presumably showing the very same signal. Makes no sense to me having that primary aspect prior to the rail crossing but then hey, Auckland.


    I've bolded some words. Should have been if the traffic light is red you stop at the limit line and don't pass THAT red light. To some extent the rail crossing is irrelevant as those lights were not flashing but then that is clearly the reason for the non-standard layout. No doubt too many dickheads queuing back over the railway line when it does start flashing.

    Bad luck, move on, you'll know next time. Would suggest before your next test you talk this through with the examiner in case you go that way again and the lights change. Would be surprised if there are many other intersections around the country with signals laid out that way. It's a bit Mickey Mouse if you ask me.
    100% - thanks Berries, definitely understand where I went wrong now and will double check with instructor before my re-sit this Sunday!

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    I'd say a few truck and trailer units have been caught there in the past. Probably a few cars caught there too.

    That line painted across the road before the rail crossing is there for a reason.

    And regardless of rule of law ... if the tester say's you've failed ... you can rest assured that you have DEFINITLY failed. They have the authority to make that decision.
    100% agree with ya; got the info I needed to understand where I went wrong on this one. Tbh the instructor was awesome throughout the pre-training & the test as well; was my bad I couldn't piece it together.

    Thanks everyone for helping me understand the situation. Re-sit this Sunday

  10. #10
    Join Date
    2nd December 2020 - 14:35
    Bike
    2018, Kawsaki Vulcan S
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3
    Not sure where my last reply went to... but

    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    If this is the intersection in question, Tawa Rd onto Main Rd, Kumeu, looking at this streetview from Google maps would suggest you went against a red traffic light which is situated on the western side of the railway line when you crossed the railway line and got onto the end of the queue at the other side. There are further traffic lights on the eastern side of the railway line as well.

    https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.7...7i16384!8i8192

    It's probably one of those situations where a "Stop Here When Lights Are Red" sign on the western side traffic lights would remove any chance of ambiguity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper View Post
    It does sound like that set of traffic lights. And yes it's confusing. But looks like OP crossed the railway track and ignored the very first set of traffic lights.

    Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk
    Thanks Moi and Jeeper- I completely 100% missed even seeing that set of lights visibility was terrible that day (reason, not an excuse), so here I was trying to understand what happened from memory WITHOUT those lights being in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    That is one messed up intersection with two limit lines. Can see why it is confusing but if the light is red you would stop where the Conroys van is in the linked image. You said however that the rail line is before the traffic signal which is not strictly true if this is the intersection in question.

    Basically in the direction shown there are two controlled intersections, the first before the rail line and the second after, presumably showing the very same signal. Makes no sense to me having that primary aspect prior to the rail crossing but then hey, Auckland.


    I've bolded some words. Should have been if the traffic light is red you stop at the limit line and don't pass THAT red light. To some extent the rail crossing is irrelevant as those lights were not flashing but then that is clearly the reason for the non-standard layout. No doubt too many dickheads queuing back over the railway line when it does start flashing.

    Bad luck, move on, you'll know next time. Would suggest before your next test you talk this through with the examiner in case you go that way again and the lights change. Would be surprised if there are many other intersections around the country with signals laid out that way. It's a bit Mickey Mouse if you ask me.
    100% agree with ya Berries- totally understand where I went wrong now, def keeping eyes peeled (harder) for my re-sit this Sunday. Thanks a bunch!

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    I'd say a few truck and trailer units have been caught there in the past. Probably a few cars caught there too.

    That line painted across the road before the rail crossing is there for a reason.

    And regardless of rule of law ... if the tester say's you've failed ... you can rest assured that you have DEFINITLY failed. They have the authority to make that decision.
    100% - to be fair the tester was really cool the whole time, during the training beforehand and the test. I just didn't understand where it went wrong, but all schooled up now.

    Thanks everyone for the input and education, helped me understand the situation totally. Much appreciated.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    5th December 2009 - 12:32
    Bike
    It was on the good
    Location
    ship Venus, by Chri
    Posts
    3,154
    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    If you want a few others that are "interesting" railway level crossings on the Western line, look for:

    1. Normanby Rd crossing
    2. Morningside Drive crossing
    3. Asquith Avenue crossing
    4. Woodward Rd crossing
    5. Ranui Station crossing
    Pretty sure at least one on that list is used for LCSIA training. It's third world ridiculous if you ask me, having train tracks and roads meeting at the same level and relying on signs or flashing lights. Down here we don't even have a passenger rail service but come 5.05pm every day a train with 500 million shitty spray painted carriages will crawl its way between Dunedin and somewhere south causing huge delays at every crossing and risking the lives of idiots with ipods and stupid drivers at the same time.

    It is coming up to Christmas so pretty sure the fuckers will be shunting in and around the centre of Dunedin to cause absolute grid lock. Oh hang on, this isn't the rant thread.......................

  12. #12
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    14,126
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    Pretty sure at least one on that list is used for LCSIA training. It's third world ridiculous if you ask me, having train tracks and roads meeting at the same level and relying on signs or flashing lights. Down here we don't even have a passenger rail service but come 5.05pm every day a train with 500 million shitty spray painted carriages will crawl its way between Dunedin and somewhere south causing huge delays at every crossing and risking the lives of idiots with ipods and stupid drivers at the same time.

    It is coming up to Christmas so pretty sure the fuckers will be shunting in and around the centre of Dunedin to cause absolute grid lock. Oh hang on, this isn't the rant thread.......................
    The St Andrews street and ANZAC Ave crossing is quite similar to the one in this thread. I've seen traffic banked up from the lights and are parked waiting on the rail lines.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@-45.873...7i16384!8i8192
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    13th July 2008 - 20:48
    Bike
    R1200RT LC
    Location
    Rangiora
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by nzbikeguy View Post
    Not sure where my last reply went to... but





    Thanks Moi and Jeeper- I completely 100% missed even seeing that set of lights visibility was terrible that day (reason, not an excuse), so here I was trying to understand what happened from memory WITHOUT those lights being in the picture.



    100% agree with ya Berries- totally understand where I went wrong now, def keeping eyes peeled (harder) for my re-sit this Sunday. Thanks a bunch!



    100% - to be fair the tester was really cool the whole time, during the training beforehand and the test. I just didn't understand where it went wrong, but all schooled up now.

    Thanks everyone for the input and education, helped me understand the situation totally. Much appreciated.
    You are a rare breed, accepting that you got it wrong and moving on.

    The KB standard is to always insist you are right, even if you're not.

    You must be new.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    19th January 2013 - 16:56
    Bike
    a 400 and a 650 :-)
    Location
    The Isthmus
    Posts
    1,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    Pretty sure at least one on that list is used for LCSIA training...
    What is "LCSIA"?

    Found: "Level Crossing Safety Impact Assessments (LCSIA) for Vehicle and Pedestrian Crossings".

    As for third world... a bit harsh. Level crossings exist in every country that has railways, just the nature of the beast. At least we have only one, if I have remembered correctly, where the railway runs down the middle of the main street - Kawakawa, BoI - whereas that situation is not uncommon in the USA. It's just that some drivers/riders are still learning to live with level crossings, and for that matter intersections...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    1st September 2007 - 21:01
    Bike
    1993 Yamaha FJ 1200
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    14,126
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    What is "LCSIA"?

    As for third world... a bit harsh. Level crossings exist in every country that has railways, just the nature of the beast. At least we have only one, if I have remembered correctly, where the railway runs down the middle of the main street - Kawakawa, BoI - whereas that situation is not uncommon in the USA. It's just that some drivers/riders are still learning to live with level crossings, and for that matter intersections...
    In Dunedin itself, there is one main street that has a level crossing (controlled by lights and bells) and a few minor road ones in Port Chalmers. There is one in Mosgiel that has issues.
    https://www.google.com/maps/@-45.886...7i16384!8i8192

    It seems the main issue is that people just don't like to be inconvenienced in ANY way at all. It's the national right of all citizens of Godzone to NOT be delayed in their travel at any time for any reason. Be it by trains or just slow/stupid drivers. Apparently.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •