Where were you in 1989?

[Grumph]

Reading all of these posts and it’s clear that 1989 was a great time to be alive.

You were employed, had plenty opportunities & no real dramas like that of what we face today.

And the Boomers say to me “back in my day”???

You clearly didn’t have it hard at all.
Imagine what us Millennials will have to say about what we went through...

Fuck off. You don't know you're alive.

The leaving self-employment was in order to service the first mortgage at 12.5% - and the second at 21%. Pretty normal rates for those days.
Yes, houses were cheaper - but money was a fucking sight harder to borrow.

The heart attack was a logical outcome of working 60 hour weeks to service the fucking motgages.

Yes, I have a nice property now. But it's cost me.
How many hours are you working ?

[pritch]

And the Boomers say to me “back in my day”???

You clearly didn’t have it hard at all.
Imagine what us Millennials will have to say about what we went through...

It's possible you might improve your understanding by studying some history. Roger Douglas introduced his "surprise" economic theory and probably hundreds of thousands of people lost their jobs. The "sunset industries" were gone and the jobs with them. Tens of thousands of government jobs too were gone. We don't manufacture much here any more, it's more efficient to buy it from China. Lots of jobs in China, successive generations of permanent unemployed here. Plus large numbers of people trying to survive on the minimum wage.

Prior to Rogernomics the economy was government controlled. The government set the exchange rate, they set the rules by which the bank could offer housing loans, and sometimes they intentionally made it very difficult if they were worried about inflation at the time. The other big expense they controlled was the hire purchase regulations, if they thought too many were buying cars they would require a bigger deposit and/or a shorter time to pay. IIRC the most difficult was 50% deposit, one year to pay the balance.

The Millenials are facing difficulties, no question, but things aren't looking too flash for the Gen Zs as they leave school and try to join the workforce.

Then there's a pandemic to further complicate things for everybody.

[Dean]

Fuck off. You don't know you're alive.

The leaving self-employment was in order to service the first mortgage at 12.5% - and the second at 21%. Pretty normal rates for those days.
Yes, houses were cheaper - but money was a fucking sight harder to borrow.

The heart attack was a logical outcome of working 60 hour weeks to service the fucking motgages.

Yes, I have a nice property now. But it's cost me.
How many hours are you working ?

Firstly let’s talk deposits.
My sister lives in Auckland Penrose, the average house price is circa 1million.
And yes taking Auckland as an example is logical because statistically Auckland accommodates the majority of Millennials and Boomers per city.

The banks now generally require 20% deposit whereas it was only 10% in 1989.
In 1989 annual income was proportionally 1/4 - 1/5 of the house price, nowadays taking Auckland as an example It is 1/12 in proportion (average house price of 1million divided by an average salary of 80k).

Do you think this is achievable & sustainable?

Regarding interest - that was somewhat mitigated with how you factored your repayment scheme and how much you deposited. But generally yes those interest rates were far higher. Except there still exists a vast difference in the total interest & repayment to bank relative to total income.

I actually work 65-70 hours a week.
And no this is not a joke - I wish it was.
I am on well above the average NZ salary with work vehicle etc however It is still hard for me to purchase a house.

My current house cost my landlord $120,000 in the 80’s. It is now valued at 1.2million (well above local inflation rates).
I need to make a deposit of $240,000, I am 27yrs old.
It’s not impossible but it is more challenging than what boomers encountered.

[Berries]

Try moving from Auckland.

In 1989 I worked the summer on a holiday camp washing dishes and outside that was on the dole or doing 12 hour night shifts watching machines stuff envelopes or sanding shop fittings. I couldn’t afford rent let alone have ideas about buying a house like you do.

Instead of blaming the previous generation I got off my arse and changed things. Took me another 15 years to pay off my debts and had to move countries to do so.

Don’t take this the wrong way but you whinge too much.

[ellipsis]

It’s not impossible but it is more challenging than what boomers encountered.

...in the '70s you could buy an older house in my little town for between 4 and 8 grand... most of my ilk were young, time served tradesmen who found this a daunting prospect, irrespective of what your perceived views of what then was, and the differing reality of what it really was, and how you fucks became soft, moaning, me, me, me cunts like you are, is tiresome millennial wank...

...get a licence...find some dumb cunt silly enough to marry you, have kids, come back in ten years and talk about it...you may have grown up a little in that time, but you still may not own a house...like many of my boomer mates couldn't either...piss off...

[swarfie]

Fuck off. You don't know you're alive.

The leaving self-employment was in order to service the first mortgage at 12.5% - and the second at 21%. Pretty normal rates for those days.
Yes, houses were cheaper - but money was a fucking sight harder to borrow.

The heart attack was a logical outcome of working 60 hour weeks to service the fucking motgages.

+1 on that. I've always been an employee. Did my trade, left the Tron to work in Dorkland for a short while before going to Bougainville and working in a shithole in the early 80's for great money to buy a house. First five weeks there I was doing 105 hours a week...you heard that right. Engaged to my lovely wife of 37 years which was tough. Hours gradually got cut down but still @ 84 when I left. The money I earned put us in our house with much less of a mortgage than my mates. It started at 10% and within 18 months had gone to 21%. That put some of my mates out of their houses in mortgagee sales! We had a MK1 Escort, my XR500A, a new fridge and washing machine, a borrowed bed and NOTHING else. Our lounge suite was some big pillows the war office had made. That was it! Call me a moaning old coont but I don't see to many young people getting off their arses and working fucking hard to do the same thing. Yes houses are expensive but as Grumph says money is unbelievably cheap. And who wants to live in Dorkland anyway. Get out and smell the roses.

[TheDemonLord]

Firstly let’s talk deposits.
My sister lives in Auckland Penrose, the average house price is circa 1million.
And yes taking Auckland as an example is logical because statistically Auckland accommodates the majority of Millennials and Boomers per city.

So, you choose to live somewhere you can't afford to live and then expect sympathy.

The banks now generally require 20% deposit whereas it was only 10% in 1989.
In 1989 annual income was proportionally 1/4 - 1/5 of the house price, nowadays taking Auckland as an example It is 1/12 in proportion (average house price of 1million divided by an average salary of 80k).

Methinks you are substituting the national average and then comparing it to the Auckland Average - Tsk Tsk.

Plus, you are only using a single income, whereas realistically (for both my parents and my In-Laws) they bought a house with a joint income, which changes the calculations somewhat.

Regarding interest - that was somewhat mitigated with how you factored your repayment scheme and how much you deposited. But generally yes those interest rates were far higher. Except there still exists a vast difference in the total interest & repayment to bank relative to total income.

Referencing back to my In-Laws, they nearly lost their house when the Interest rates went through the roof, 20% interest on a Mortgage was crippling. Many had to sell their houses, many had to pay off negative equity. There wasn't much mitigation except for 'doing without' and preying for the interest rates to return to normalcy

I actually work 65-70 hours a week.
And no this is not a joke - I wish it was.
I am on well above the average NZ salary with work vehicle etc however It is still hard for me to purchase a house.

I'm willing to bet, that you don't live like most of the previous generation lived when buying their first home - Both sets of Parents state that when they bought their house, they were pretty much living off Bread and Milk initially, every penny went into their Mortgage. After a couple of years and a couple of pay rises, they started to live more comfortably.

In fact, they remarked that the first house I bought (in Gulf Harbour) was practically a mansion compared to their first house which was a 1 bedroom flat.

My current house cost my landlord $120,000 in the 80’s. It is now valued at 1.2million (well above local inflation rates).
I need to make a deposit of $240,000, I am 27yrs old.
It’s not impossible but it is more challenging than what boomers encountered.

So, Move - here: Much more affordable, $60K deposit, 4 bedrooms

'But I work in the city, so I have to be in the city' - You pays your money, you takes your choice. If you want a house (very much like I did), you have to decide on your priorities, for me it was Home Ownership, so I moved from the North Shore out to Gulf Harbour, I had a 1 hour bike commute to Penrose daily, but that was what it took to own a house, as time went on, the house started to appreciate, which eased the financial burden.

It's easy to look at the numbers today and conclude that it's so much harder today - to that I call absolute bullshit, Owning a home has always been difficult, there are a myriad of tools and options available to you today to help you get into a first home that didn't exist 30 years ago, Finance is waaaaaaaay easier to obtain than it was 30 years ago.

So, as one who is not much older than you (but owns a house) - Quit yer bitchin', It is what it is, each generation had their struggles, now it's up to you to think your way around them.

[Dean]

So, you choose to live somewhere you can't afford to live and then expect sympathy.

I live in Christchurch, where did I ever overtly state I live in Auckland?

"Asking for sympathy" is purely subjective - that's your personal opinion.

Methinks you are substituting the national average and then comparing it to the Auckland Average - Tsk Tsk.

Cant be bothered looking much further into it - I simply don't have the time, here's your task for today if you would be so kind:

Go and find for me the average Auckland Salary for Q3/Q4 2020 so we can compare apples with apples please.
Although I am confident the data will show a large disparity between Auckland income and Auckland house prices.

Also a friendly reminder regarding your inconsistent capitalization - is it "average" or "Average"?

Plus, you are only using a single income, whereas realistically (for both my parents and my In-Laws) they bought a house with a joint income, which changes the calculations somewhat.

Right so because your parents bought a house with a joint income in a different generation - that is reflective of the current Millennial demographic? Tsk Tsk.

Referencing back to my In-Laws, they nearly lost their house when the Interest rates went through the roof, 20% interest on a Mortgage was crippling. Many had to sell their houses, many had to pay off negative equity. There wasn't much mitigation except for 'doing without' and preying for the interest rates to return to normalcy

That's very unfortunate.

Another friendly reminder: "praying".

'But I work in the city, so I have to be in the city' - You pays your money, you takes your choice. If you want a house (very much like I did), you have to decide on your priorities, for me it was Home Ownership, so I moved from the North Shore out to Gulf Harbour, I had a 1 hour bike commute to Penrose daily, but that was what it took to own a house, as time went on, the house started to appreciate, which eased the financial burden.

It's easy to look at the numbers today and conclude that it's so much harder today - to that I call absolute bullshit, Owning a home has always been difficult, there are a myriad of tools and options available to you today to help you get into a first home that didn't exist 30 years ago, Finance is waaaaaaaay easier to obtain than it was 30 years ago.

So, as one who is not much older than you (but owns a house) - Quit yer bitchin', It is what it is, each generation had their struggles, now it's up to you to think your way around them.

For a man that supposedly works with analyzing data you seem to gloss past the elephant in the room - the massive income/house price disparity which is greater than in your in-laws time. You need to acknowledge what that data is telling us.

Serious question - how are the house prices in Gulf Harbour? I have heard they have greatly depreciated over the last 10-15 years?
Id be willing to bet you purchased your home out there under 650k sale price (which is not reflective of the Auckland average).
I have some friends out there - aren't those villa apartments going cheap?
Seem's to be the cheapest place to buy in Auckland?

I'm also not stating that I wont or cant buy a house - I'm just saying that it needs to be acknowledged that the Millennial generation face greater challenges.

Thanks for your input.

[TheDemonLord]

I live in Christchurch, where did I ever overtly state I live in Auckland?

"Asking for sympathy" is purely subjective - that's your personal opinion.

The constant reference to Auckland and Auckland prices generally....

Cant be bothered looking much further into it - I simply don't have the time, here's your task for today if you would be so kind:

Go and find for me the average Auckland Salary for Q3/Q4 2020 so we can compare apples with apples please.
Although I am confident the data will show a large disparity between Auckland income and Auckland house prices.

Also a friendly reminder regarding your inconsistent capitalization - is it "average" or "Average"?

Why? You are the one making the point, onus is on you to provide the correct data, I'm simply pointing out you are mixing your measures subjectively and therefore any conclusion you draw is invalid.

Right so because your parents bought a house with a joint income in a different generation - that is reflective of the current Millennial demographic? Tsk Tsk.

Whilst I'll acknowledge a time difference - Each group has the same fundamental choices.

One overwhelming choose to get Married, Buy a crappy house, and do it up.
The other chooses differently.

At the end of the day, there are choices and they have consequences. Don't like the Consequences? Make better choices. Demanding everyone else must make your life easier, when part of the struggles are entirely self-inflicted just makes you look like a whining entitled Child.

That's very unfortunate.

Another friendly reminder: "praying".

Ah, so when something bad happens to one generation, it's very unfortunate.
When it happens to your generation it's "more challenging than what boomers encountered."

Get over yourself.

For a man that supposedly works with analyzing data you seem to gloss past the elephant in the room - the massive income/house price disparity which is greater than in your in-laws time. You need to acknowledge what that data is telling us.

Or maybe I'm factoring in other things - such as the ease of access to Finance, ease of mobility, remote working options etc.

Serious question - how are the house prices in Gulf Harbour? I have heard they have greatly depreciated over the last 10-15 years?
Id be willing to bet you purchased your home out there under 650k sale price (which is not reflective of the Auckland average).
I have some friends out there - aren't those villa apartments going cheap?
Seem's to be the cheapest place to buy in Auckland?

I think you mean it's greatly appreciated over the last 10-15 years, I made just under 50% increase on my house when I sold it last year.

Either way, Auckland Averages or not, the fact remains there are options, if you are willing to make the sacrifices.

But even then - let's take you at your word:

Buy a cheap villa apartment - spend a couple of years paying into the mortgage and developing some equity, as opposed to paying off your landlords mortgage. Sell it and then move into a bigger/nicer/closer home - it's what the previous generation did - seems to have worked for them.

I'm also not stating that I wont or cant buy a house - I'm just saying that it needs to be acknowledged that the Millennial generation face greater challenges.

If you (both you specifically and Millennials generally) spent as much time working on obtaining a house as they did bitching about how 'hard' and 'greater challenges' etc. Then they'd look like the Winning player in a game of Monopoly.

Excluding Auckland and Wellington as outliers - there are plenty of locations all throughout NZ with very affordable houses, especially ones that could do with a little bit of elbow-grease to make them nice.... That thing that the previous generation did - investing time and effort to make something nice, instead of complaining that they should be entitled to something nice by dint of their mere existence.

And for the record - I bought my first house at 26.

[Dean]

The constant reference to Auckland and Auckland prices generally....

You need to read the fine print next time please.

Why? You are the one making the point, onus is on you to provide the correct data, I'm simply pointing out you are mixing your measures subjectively and therefore any conclusion you draw is invalid.

I made a statement, you decided to challenge it, I explained that I am too busy to respond. However since you have the time to challenge my statement in the pursuit of truth then it seems logical that you also have the time to find this data to satisfy your pursuit. Fair enough?

Whilst I'll acknowledge a time difference

Thanks mate.

Or maybe I'm factoring in other things - such as the ease of access to Finance, ease of mobility, remote working options etc.

You're focusing on the 20%.
I am focusing on the 80%.
Try to think big picture.
It doesn't come easy to some.

I think you mean it's greatly appreciated over the last 10-15 years, I made just under 50% increase on my house when I sold it last year.

Nice! I was not aware the Gulf Harbour housing market had appreciated.

If you (both you specifically and Millennials generally) spent as much time working on obtaining a house as they did bitching about how 'hard' and 'greater challenges' etc. Then they'd look like the Winning player in a game of Monopoly.

Who is to say I am not working hard on obtaining a house in the background?
You mentioned "you specifically".
What makes you assume this?

And for the record - I bought my first house at 26.

Well done!

[TheDemonLord]

I made a statement, you decided to challenge it, I explained that I am too busy to respond. However since you have the time to challenge my statement in the pursuit of truth then it seems logical that you also have the time to find this data to satisfy your pursuit. Fair enough?

I've fulfilled my obligations as to point out the flaws in your argument, anything further is on you.

You're focusing on the 20%.
I am focusing on the 80%.
Try to think big picture.
It doesn't come easy to some.

Except I bought a house, so maybe the 20% that you think I'm focusing on, is more like the 80% that you should be focusing on.

Who is to say I am not working hard on obtaining a house in the background?
You mentioned "you specifically".
What makes you assume this?

Because I have friends (I know, it's a surprise to some, even myself) who I have heard repeat the same lines and arguments you have posted over the course of the last 5 or so years.

Most of whom, had they made different choices, would be homeowners.

But instead, they choose to live in nicer and nicer flats (for example a Flat with a value of 1.2 Million), with more expensive rents, they choose to not commit to a relationship, they choose to go on holidays/overseas trips/partying on the Weekend etc. When I bought my first house, my Mortgage was I think a 30-40% increase on what my Rent was, that was a lifestyle shock....

Now, I don't know every specific detail about your life, but I do know that you opted to have Children before you bought a house - That is a Choice that you made, that has consequences which I'd conjecture leads you to be looking for a minimum number of Bedrooms and with a minimum acceptable level of quality?

The final straw that irks me is when people have the Gall to claim they have it harder than the previous generation, which I find to be both absurd, massively ungrateful and entitled. Just like your comments about "Very Unfortunate".

[Dean]

Except I bought a house, so maybe the 20% that you think I'm focusing on, is more like the 80% that you should be focusing on.

People make different sacrifices, you decided to enter into debt at a young age for a low value house in a logistically challenging area (you had to travel 1hr to work everyday)
But If you would like my praise for coming up with an 80,000 deposit of which you would have split with your Kiwisaver, wife, in-laws, daddy and mummy - well done! Good on you!

I am in the market for around 1-1.2million as I am looking at buying in Mt Eden (average house price in Mt Eden is around or a little higher than this Mark). Need to move there due to several reasons (work and personal). But no daddy or mummy to help me out, just my "big picture mentality" salary. Each to their own mate.

Because I have friends (I know, it's a surprise to some, even myself) who I have heard repeat the same lines and arguments you have posted over the course of the last 5 or so years.

So you're assuming your friends are the same as me?
Same background?
Same motives?

"Assuming is the root of all disappointments"

Most of whom, had they made different choices, would be homeowners.

"Most" - would you like it if your bike started 'most' of the time?

Now, I don't know every specific detail about your life, but I do know that you opted to have Children before you bought a house - That is a Choice that you made, that has consequences which I'd conjecture leads you to be looking for a minimum number of Bedrooms and with a minimum acceptable level of quality?

Having children was never a setback or challenge that I raised in regards to buying a home, so these are your words not mine, houses are expensive whether they be 1 or 4 bedrooms.

I do however spend a lot of time with my little one especially when she is sick - and not on KB.
The "acceptable level of quality" isn't always in the house - rather in "priorities" and how much quality time I spend with her.

The final straw that irks me is when people have the Gall to claim they have it harder than the previous generation, which I find to be both absurd, massively ungrateful and entitled. Just like your comments about "Very Unfortunate".

That's very unfortunate to hear.

Anyways I appreciate your input and unfortunately I have got to go.
Daddy duties.

Cheers,

[MaxPenguin]

Is being a millennial a disability or an excuse?

In 1989 I was mostly drunk.

[JATZ]

Is being a millennial a disability or an excuse?

In 1989 I was mostly drunk.

I think it's an excuse

I was mostly stoned, occasionally drunk. Enjoying the last of my teenage years.

[george formby]

I was watching old British comedy.