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Thread: Electronic Rider Aids

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    My impression is that most of the people against rider aids are older riders
    I resemble that remark

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    who "managed to survive this long without those electronics"
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    and "miss the day when bikes could be serviced without a computer"
    False - I'm still living them

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    and on a psychological level are on some kind of ego trip where having safety technology is like conceding some part of their riding skills and abilities to a computer
    Bullshit - I just don't want crap I don't need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    aids that in reality are much less likely to fail than they are, and improving all the time.
    Perhaps - but electronics are usually not service parts - and getting replacements gets harder and harder as they get older. They also get more unreliable with age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    Some bikes even have a feature to call emergency services if the rider does have an accident.
    And that's exactly the sort of snowflake nanny state crap I go riding to avoid....
    =mjc=
    .

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim.cox View Post



    Perhaps - but electronics are usually not service parts - and getting replacements gets harder and harder as they get older. They also get more unreliable with age.
    This is pretty much my caveat. A lot of modern cars with a raft of electrical aids seem to have a finite life span. 10 years, if you're lucky?

    If I could afford to get a new or near new bike every few years then no problem but longevity is still important for me. I have an instinctive distrust of small, cheaply made, expensive to replace sensors after a certain time span.

    The car world is littered with examples of sensor and computer failures, I see no reason as time goes by that bikes will be any different.

    From a safety perspective, more is good. As long as it's in the background and does not impede how I want to ride.

    Oh, dicking around with "settings" every time the bike is turned on is very off putting.

    I've been watching quite a few reviews of the KTM 790R and the Yammie T7. A recent watch had the rider of the KTM change his settings 3 times to get up a hill. That's not improvement, he had to switch everything off.
    Manopausal.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    This is pretty much my caveat. A lot of modern cars with a raft of electrical aids seem to have a finite life span. 10 years, if you're lucky?
    Exactly - The EFI unit in my 86 4WD failed last year - it was off the road for more than four months until a replacement could be found. A $250 part, but better that than $10K+ for a new old truck, or worse $70K for a new new one...
    =mjc=
    .

  4. #19
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    To answer the OP's question - Things such as TC, ABS and so on all generate opinions for and against. Ask 5 different people and get 10 different answers sort of thing.

    IMHO they are there for when you're heading to the airport/ferry/final destination at 2:37 on a Thursday afternoon, are thinking of something other than your riding and you hit a patch of something slippery around the same time as that dipstick in an old Toyota whatsisname pulls out on you. In other words when life happens to you instead of you happening to it.

    So - Yes please. I'll take them every time.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Ok so you'd have to hold it in a neutral position off the stop but not closed and not accelerating. I guess that makes sense esp the close throttle off bit which is natural.

    The car you just take it off the pedal , resting in anticipation of braking or accelerating if needs be, or pushing a button to 'button off'
    no, you just leave the throttle at it's idle position. You have to put a little effort into turning it back to cancel the cruise. You wouldn't do it unintentionally. So you just relax and hold the bars lightly I guess...
    Only a Rat can win a Rat Race!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    To answer the OP's question - Things such as TC, ABS and so on all generate opinions for and against. Ask 5 different people and get 10 different answers sort of thing.

    IMHO they are there for when you're heading to the airport/ferry/final destination at 2:37 on a Thursday afternoon, are thinking of something other than your riding and you hit a patch of something slippery around the same time as that dipstick in an old Toyota whatsisname pulls out on you. In other words when life happens to you instead of you happening to it.

    So - Yes please. I'll take them every time.
    Yep, it is easy to take them for granted, esp when you never have them cut in under normal riding conditions. I have had one accident involving the abs on my v strom where a farm quad did a u'ey in front of me on a metal road. I must have locked up the brakes, it all happens so quickly you struggle to recall exactly what went down.
    Only a Rat can win a Rat Race!

  7. #22
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    Decent lights that look through corners etc

    adaptive cruise control would be nice when there is a lot of traffic.

    READ AND UDESTAND

  8. #23
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    Between my two current bikes; one has 2019 spec Suzuki rider aids. 2 stage TC and off. 6 axis IMU and front/rear linked ABS, the other relies entirely on what you have in the top 2 inches of your head.

    Same corner, different days, different bikes, two different outcomes. I almost went off the end of the corner when all control was taken away from me while trailbraking into a sharp downhill hairpin. "computer says NO". I say almost, as at the very last second before it took me over the centreline it came good on the promise to actually apply stopping power, if a little later than I was anticipating. Nice controlled trailbrake and throttle out corner turned into a sloppy J turn at slow speed amid much cursing. The 6 axis IMU seems calibrated to a theoretical threshold rather than a physical one.

    The other bike just shrugs and says "you are the boss, what do you want me to do?"

    It takes a concious decision to change riding styles between the two bikes; rider aids or not, that has always been the case anyway IMHO.e

    Unless you plan on riding classics into the next few decades, rider aids ARE the future. Just another change to get used to and adapt to. Just like radial tyres, Fuel injection, ECU's, UD forks, O ring chains, disc brakes,......all of which have been introduced during my riding lifetime.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    somebody getting into motorcycling sees a bike has ABS and TC, they're more likely to start riding because they feel it's safer with those aids, which increases the number of people enjoying motorcycling. But I hear you say "feeling safer and being safer are two different things!" and "those electronics will give them a false sense of security!". True, the newbie or returning rider getting a bike with rider aids like ABS and TC will be relying on a safety net...
    I've never had ABS on a bike but would like it. I've got it on my car and have had it on heavy vehicles. Most people will never know it's there, you have to be braking really hard or be on a seriously slippery surface for it to kick in.

    ABS arrived late in NZ because the importers were more interested in 'maintaining their margins'. We had to wait until it was made compulsory in major markets before it basically became more difficult for them to import bikes without ABS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    My impression is that most of the people against rider aids are older riders who "managed to survive this long without those electronics" and "miss the day when bikes could be serviced without a computer", and on a psychological level are on some kind of ego trip where having safety technology is like conceding some part of their riding skills and abilities to a computer, aids that in reality are much less likely to fail than they are, and improving all the time.
    You assume too much. Somewhere there may be someone just such as you describe, but that's not the norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    ...IMHO, anything that can prevent motorcyclists becoming another statistic is a good thing.
    Nobody much will argue with that.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  10. #25
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    Some dick on AdvRider stated that ABS would stop him from sliding on a diesel spill.

    Went in to education mode at him with regards to IDing slippery surfaces such as wet man hole covers, wet slippery road paint markings, slick road surfaces, gravel/pee gravel and diesol/oil spills. How they can be recognised and how to avoid them as much as possible. Poor fellow ran away. I think some riders rely too much on some of these gadgets and not observing what is going on in front of them.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldiebutagoody View Post
    Between my two current bikes; one has 2019 spec Suzuki rider aids. 2 stage TC and off. 6 axis IMU and front/rear linked ABS, the other relies entirely on what you have in the top 2 inches of your head.

    Same corner, different days, different bikes, two different outcomes. I almost went off the end of the corner when all control was taken away from me while trailbraking into a sharp downhill hairpin. "computer says NO". I say almost, as at the very last second before it took me over the centreline it came good on the promise to actually apply stopping power, if a little later than I was anticipating. Nice controlled trailbrake and throttle out corner turned into a sloppy J turn at slow speed amid much cursing. The 6 axis IMU seems calibrated to a theoretical threshold rather than a physical one.

    The other bike just shrugs and says "you are the boss, what do you want me to do?"

    It takes a concious decision to change riding styles between the two bikes; rider aids or not, that has always been the case anyway IMHO.e

    Unless you plan on riding classics into the next few decades, rider aids ARE the future. Just another change to get used to and adapt to. Just like radial tyres, Fuel injection, ECU's, UD forks, O ring chains, disc brakes,......all of which have been introduced during my riding lifetime.
    Yep - And herein lies the rub with this question. My DR650 has nothing in the way of rider aids whereas the MV has the lot, including semi-active suspension. I love riding my DR and it's the one bike I'd keep if I had to sell the others and keep just one. However the MV's systems are ruddy good and enhance the riding experience IMHO.

    Do I ride differently on the DR compared to the MV? Almost certainly yes though it's not a conscious decision.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldiebutagoody View Post

    Same corner, different days, different bikes, two different outcomes. I almost went off the end of the corner when all control was taken away from me while trailbraking into a sharp downhill hairpin. "computer says NO". I say almost, as at the very last second before it took me over the centreline it came good on the promise to actually apply stopping power, if a little later than I was anticipating. Nice controlled trailbrake and throttle out corner turned into a sloppy J turn at slow speed amid much cursing. The 6 axis IMU seems calibrated to a theoretical threshold rather than a physical one.
    Pretty much the opposite happened to me many years ago. Due to fatigue, youthful exuberance, muppetry, what ever, I went into a blind left hand bend way to hot. As I touched cloth my right foot increased pressure on the back brake causing the bike to tip in more and a wee slide. Luckily it pointed the bike where I needed to go and I didn't cross the centre line into the oncoming car. It happened in a blink, no time to think.

    Potentially ABS would not have allowed this to happen and I wouldn't be here.

    Rider aids are just that, helpful most of the time. Some folk consider them to be an angel on the shoulder but even angels can't beat physics.
    Manopausal.

  13. #28
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    Not all manufacturers execute the various aids to the same degree of success.
    Triumph's cruise control is finicky compared to the BMW system, which just works, really simply. Don't even start me on the Aprilia version, that just ended up not being used, it was so unworkable.

    In contrast to one comment about electronic suspension I would say this is fairly well developed technology now with many of the manufacturers giving it a go. I like the ease of adjustment with an electronic set up. I fear it breaking down and the resulting costs.
    Having had a bike with suspension built for me which was manually adjustable I know how much that means to the sheer joy of riding and the satisfaction of experimenting to dial that suspension in for your riding style etc. Electronic suspension tends to offer someone elses approximations of how things should be, not quite the same.

    ABS seems to be a no brainer to me, as is Traction Control
    Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but how many times you have your breath taken away

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulsterkiwi View Post
    ABS seems to be a no brainer to me, as is Traction Control
    I gather that you never have, and never will, use your brakes on a gravel road or an off-road surface even more slippery. ABS is seriously dangerous in these circumstances. You'll stop by hitting something.

    I gather that you never have, and never will, try to accelerate uphill on a gravel road, on the flat on sand, or an off-road surface even more slippery. Traction control will prevent you moving.

    Electronic intervention can be a fine thing, but it's not the be all and end all.

  15. #30
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    If you don't have it you don't miss it. Ride to the fucken conditions and you should be fine.

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