Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[husaberg]

Just out of curiosity, were any of the Brexiter claims equally shown to be false ?

You mean like johnsons illegal decision to suspend parliament.

the British Supreme Court ruled that Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament was unlawful.

[sugilite:Me]

Whether direct pressure (as in letters, campaigns) or more the implicit milieu of that industry (which, would be fair to say, is left-leaning as with most creative industries) - It's the same social forces IMO.

So you are just assuming/guessing that the publishers were pressured then? No actual evidence as such?

[F5 Dave]

So why does thinking need to be labeled left or right? (Insert Demon as applicable). Maybe there us just evolution of what is acceptable. Whipping your slaves to death because you are angry for any particular reason is no longer acceptable. Is that leftist pressure?

[Bonez]

So you are just assuming/guessing that the publishers were pressured then? No actual evidence as such?

OH the irony!

Just saying...

[Viking01]

Of the big ones, you could probably hold up the 39 Billion pounds as probably the biggest falsehood - but that's really about it.

Whereas the big Remain claims so far haven't happened.

Thanks for the reply.

I suppose that if you look at the basic planks that underpinned the Brexit Referendum itself (as opposed to specific goals and objectives that followed), then I agree your answer is correct.

Planks
The planks supporting Brexit ( about 7 that I can recall) are as follows:

1. Threat to UK Sovereignty.
- Where the UK saw a progressive shift of power to the EU bureaucracy in Brussels. Where the UK considered that it was "losing power and influence", relative to the % of dues paid to the EU.

2. The EU was Restricting the UK in Terms of Unnecessary Regulations.
- Gove argued that this was costing the UK some Stg 600 mln a week in terms of "lost UK productivity" (though this was disputed).

3. The EU was focused more on supporting corporate interests, which in turn prevented the UK from conducting its own "radical" reforms.
- I couldn't find mention of any specific instances of "radical" UK reforms being called out (despite a quick online search).

4. Use of the Euro Currency was not desired.
- Despite the fact that the UK managed and used its own currency (Stg), think that this reflected UK unwillingness for tighter political and fiscal integration with the EU. Fingers were pointed at the ability (?) of the EU EC to react to major changes in economic situation, giving Greece (2014) and Spain (2015) as examples.

5. The EU was allowing too many immigrants in.
- Supposedly due to the fear that Eastern and Southern European workers were depressing wages of UK workers. In addition, large numbers of ME and African people had been leaving their home countries (due to war) and flooding into the EU since at least 2015.

6. The UK could implement a more rational immigration system.
- That the UK would benefit from introducing its own "points based" system, where it could better limit immigration to more skilled workers (not economic or political migrants) and to those who spoke English (better).

7. The UK could retain the money (Stg 39 bln) that it currently paid to the EU in annual dues.
- This represented a gross figure, whereas a UK deduction (approx 28%) was made upfront before payment by the UK to the EU (a net figure). Boris's Brexit tour bus displayed the gross amount (Stg 350 mln per week) for which he was criticised.
- That while much of the UK dues paid related to provision of services , it was argued that this should be retained by the UK government itself (which would be better able to decide upon its distribution). There was a reasonable amount of discussion (suggestion?) that the money would be used to improve both UK Health (NHS) and Education.

So, the last plank, subject to some distortion in the lead-up to the UK Brexit vote, was also the only tangible / measurable one that I could see.

English Terminology
[I did notice that you used the word "falsehood" in your post.
1. Is that the same as a "lie", but just a little more up-market ? e.g. I might "lie", but Boris or Rees Mogg would "perpetrate a falsehood" ?.
2. Or is it more like a "low fat" lie ? You can make more of them in one sitting (Parliament), and you don't feel so guilty ?
3. What do you call some-one who "perpetrates a falsehood"? ]

Claims Made
It was probably within subsequent stages (e.g. the Transition period leading to UK Parliament signing of Brexit intent in 2019, and during the Brexit Agreement negotiation phase in 2020) that I find UK claims and behaviour to have been most puzzling e.g.


Supposed Brexit Benefits
- Farage and the Brexit Party in June 2019 claiming that there would be a Stg 200 bln "Brexit dividend". This later appeared to include assumptions re the distribution of the Stg 39 bln dues mentioned earlier, the scrapping of a Stg 14 bln foreign aid budget, and cancellation of the UK HS1 high-speed rail project - approx Stg 80-100 bln).

Supposed Ease of Concluding a UK-EU Agreement
- That it would be "the easiest trade deal in history". That Brexit Agreement negotiation would be quite "rapid", and that drafting and signing of the Brexit Agreement would be completed within 11 months (by Christmas 2020) "as most of the work has already been done".
- The EU has never negotiated a trade deal with another party in such a short time (e.g. the EU-Canada FTA required seven years to complete).

Ease of Trade Movement Across UK - EU Borders
- That there will be no barriers to UK - EU trade ("frictionless trade") due to a new high tech Customs solution to be introduced by the UK ("no forms, no checks, no barriers"). Which has since failed to perform up to expectation.
- That there would be little impact upon the Irish "Good Friday" Agreement governing the Northern Ireland / Eire border.

Political Integrity of the UK
- That the UK Union would be made "stronger" by Brexit (despite the predominant "Remain" vote for both Scotland and Northern Ireland).

Negotiation of Other FTA's in Parallel
- That the UK would use the Transition Period (up to start of UK-EU Brexit negotiation) to negotiate and conclude FTA's with other third parties (such as the UK colonies). These seem to have been few and far between.

Industrial and Financial Migration
- That the UK economy was still "strong" over the 4-5 years of the Transition and Agreement Negotiation periods. By end of 2019, the UK had already suffered a Stg 70 bln financial hit.
That this was not a concern, despite the fact that: (i) many major industrial groups were already moving and re-establishing in Ireland or the EU (ii) major car firms - such as Honda and Nissan - planned to cease UK operation due to their likely inability to operate JIT manufacturing (iii) many banks and financial instiutions domiciled in London (the City) started migrating parts of their physical operation and their trading activity to the EU (e.g. Frankfurt).

Financial Equivalence
- That UK financial organisations (despite London being a major global money laundering centre) believed that the EU would be willing to offer an "equivalence arrangement", despite the UK no longer being an EU member and subject to its laws and regulations.
- Despite the size and value of the UK financial industry in London, the net result was that the UK financial sector did not reach any agreement during the Brexit negotiation phase, and it must still conduct such negotiation during 2021-22 (post the Brexit Agreement having gone into live operation).
- In the meantime, the volumes of certain financial activity (e.g. bond trading) has shifted significantly in the EU's favour.
- Even if the UK decided to establish new off-shore "tax havens" (with fewer restrictions upon their operation), their interaction with EU financial entities will still require them to be subject to rules of the EU jurisdiction.

Fisheries
- That while the UK would regain control over its fisheries (and likely choose to limit quota to EU fishing firms from Norway, Denmark, Netherlands and France), this would be a "boon' to the UK. Despite it only contributing about 1.5% to GDP.
- That this seemed to ignore the facts that (i) most of the UK fish processing was occurring within EU processing plants - continuity? (ii) the UK home fishing fleet had been depleted significantly since the 1970's, and did not have either the ships or the manpower to be able to exploit the increased quota.

The following timeline for Brexit might be of interest.

https://www.dw.com/en/brexit-timelin...ust/a-55956451

[pritch]

Yep. It's all going swimmingly. Now the EU is threatening legal action against the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rthern-ireland

[mashman]

MI Court: Michigan Secretary of State’s Absentee Ballot Order Broke Law, Vindicating Trump Claim... I wonder if hearing the case earlier would have added a little more gravitas to Trumps claims.

[Bonez]

MI Court: Michigan Secretary of State’s Absentee Ballot Order Broke Law, Vindicating Trump Claim... I wonder if hearing the case earlier would have added a little more gravitas to Trumps claims.

Interesting. This could snowball very quickly.

[mashman]

Interesting. This could snowball very quickly.

Until appeal

[Bonez]

Until appeal

And the poo flinging.

[TheDemonLord]

So you are just assuming/guessing that the publishers were pressured then? No actual evidence as such?

Let's just say I've heard the same tune sung before by the same Choir, from the same songsheet and by the same conductor.

I'm also fairly confident to say that neither Dr Seuss' estate or the Publishing house are hardcore conservatives or staunch libertarians...

[TheDemonLord]

So why does thinking need to be labeled left or right? (Insert Demon as applicable). Maybe there us just evolution of what is acceptable. Whipping your slaves to death because you are angry for any particular reason is no longer acceptable. Is that leftist pressure?

And How many Slaves were whipped to death as either a direct result of, or in the books of Dr Seuss?

None?

Getting back to the books: It's very clear which strain of ideological thought is responsible for this - and I'm going to further presume that most people here have read Dr Seuss, as either a child or as a Parent - and the fundamental question is this:

How many of you that have looked at ANY Dr Seuss drawing and thought: "This is Racist" or more specifically "Man, I never knew how much I hated those N... Dr Seuss has really shown me the truth"

I'm also going to suggest the answer is also 'None'.

This is not an Evolution, this is a sustained attack on our culture by the Woke brigade who are hell bent on destroying everything of past culture (like all Revolutionary Communists....)

[mashman]

And the poo flinging.

heh... yes. Tis the only way to solve the status quo: We have evidence for and evidence against. We don't want the evidence for to exist or at the very least it needs to look silly so that all who mention it, believers or not, will also be seen as silly. A food fight is a waste of food... may as well decide the lot by slinging the physical instead of the persistent metaphorical for a change.

[Bonez]

And How many Slaves were whipped to death as either a direct result of, or in the books of Dr Seuss?

None?

Getting back to the books: It's very clear which strain of ideological thought is responsible for this - and I'm going to further presume that most people here have read Dr Seuss, as either a child or as a Parent - and the fundamental question is this:

How many of you that have looked at ANY Dr Seuss drawing and thought: "This is Racist" or more specifically "Man, I never knew how much I hated those N... Dr Seuss has really shown me the truth"

I'm also going to suggest the answer is also 'None'.

This is not an Evolution, this is a sustained attack on our culture by the Woke brigade who are hell bent on destroying everything of past culture (like all Revolutionary Communists....)

We never questioned why Noody and Big Ears shared a bed together either.

Or that Golly Wog was a nigger.

[sugilite:Me]

I'm also fairly confident to say that neither Dr Seuss' estate or the Publishing house are hardcore conservatives or staunch libertarians...

Now I'm intrigued! You know the Seuss' estate and publishing people personally?

There once was a demonlord, who while at "work" would get rather bored. Now he liked a good Seuss story, almost as much as a cashed up pro brexit tory.
So while fending off another sugi zinger, he would flatten that with an overweight democrat opera singer!
When work was over, it was on the bike for a blat, looking suspiciously like a modern day cat in an odd shaped hat.
Who is this cat in an odd shaped hat, riding the bike that goes blat, blat, blat - why that that would be the guy on the hunt for a questionable stat. Or something like that - that cheshire grinning cat