Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[pritch]

So what got him elected as President ... ?? Aside from his money ... ??

I'm not sure he's got *that* much money. He still owes the odd million from his hate rallies and his election campaign. He was just refused use of one venue because of unpaid bills from his previous visit.

The news media were a huge help. FOX "News" brainwashing a large chunk of the population, the rest of the media chasing clicks and dollars rather than actual news.
Most appear to have learned nothing.

Economic anxiety was considered to be a significant factor - until it was realised that economic anxiety was just old fashioned racism. Racism was a major factor.

The electoral college got him elected, Clinton won more votes than Trump. Gerrymandering was a factor.

No one thing got him elected, multiple influences contributed. It was definitely not that he was smart, honest, or had a good reputation. None of those applied.

[husaberg]

I'm not sure he's got *that* much money. He still owes the odd million from his hate rallies and his election campaign. He was just refused use of one venue because of unpaid bills from his previous visit.

The news media were a huge help. FOX "News" brainwashing a large chunk of the population, the rest of the media chasing clicks and dollars rather than actual news.
Most appear to have learned nothing.

Economic anxiety was considered to be a significant factor - until it was realised that economic anxiety was just old fashioned racism. Racism was a major factor.

The electoral college got him elected, Clinton won more votes than Trump. Gerrymandering was a factor.

No one thing got him elected, multiple influences contributed. It was definitely not that he was smart, honest, or had a good reputation. None of those applied.

Running against a woman no really one liked sure helped....

[pritch]

Running against a woman no really one liked sure helped....

True. She was the second most unpopular candidate ever, but she ran a lacklustre campaign and lost to the most unpopular candidate ever. I don't even think she knew why she was running beyond some vague notion that it was her turn.

Some rated her "the most qualified" candidate ever, but by the time you get to that point there must be baggage. Too much baggage as it turned out.

[FJRider]

I'm not sure he's got *that* much money. He still owes the odd million from his hate rallies and his election campaign. He was just refused use of one venue because of unpaid bills from his previous visit.

Ownership of various properties and business's can't hurt. Interest rates on money he has might be more than penalty rates on money owed (if even such penalty rates exist).

The news media were a huge help. FOX "News" brainwashing a large chunk of the population, the rest of the media chasing clicks and dollars rather than actual news.
Most appear to have learned nothing.

And promoting their own brand as well. What could possibly go wrong .. ??

Economic anxiety was considered to be a significant factor - until it was realised that economic anxiety was just old fashioned racism. Racism was a major factor.

I thought it was the "Make America Great Again" campaign ...

The electoral college got him elected, Clinton won more votes than Trump. Gerrymandering was a factor.

The Electoral College decisively confirmed Joe Biden as that nation's next president. It's what happens when the Electoral College do NOT elect a president ... that the fun begins ...

No one thing got him elected, multiple influences contributed. It was definitely not that he was smart, honest, or had a good reputation. None of those applied.

He got plenty of tv time ... before/during and after his term. He can add that job to his CV.

[Viking01]

I said the rate of growth doubled...

I keep seeing you state that the rate of US growth increased (doubled) over the course of the Trump administration, but I'd like to query that statement a little.

If you meant "economic growth", then adjusted US GDP figures might not support that point e.g.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/

I don't see either a long term doubling in % growth, or any significant difference from figures for the preceding Obama years.

But if you meant that the US stock market (e.g. Dow Jones Average Industrial Index) doubled during the Trump period, then I'd be inclined to agree:

https://knoema.com/jhxfibc/dow-jones...ices-2007-2020

Even if you meant share market growth, I'd still have to question the significance (productive nature) of the increase in share market valuation over that period, given:

- Changes in corporate tax policies (plus tax breaks given predominantly to the top 10% of the population)
- Share buybacks by major corporates (which simply inflated stock market prices)
- Increased military spending (progressive increases in US annual military budgets)
- Increases in pricing of services by corporates (as the US economy slowly started recovery after the main Covid impact ). Most specifically finance, insurance and real estate sectors.
- Increases in housing purchase and rental costs
- Speculators investing heavily in futures for commodities such as copper, aluminium and oil (hoping to cash in on future increases in demand for those commodities)

Even if the US economy was as rosy as some have tried to portray, you'd still have to have some concerns about actual economic state of health and ongoing sustainability, given:

(i) ongoing increases in US external debt

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-.../external-debt (select 10Y or 25Y button)

(ii) recapitalisation of major US banks by the FED during 2019

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2021/...ed-money-went/

(iii) levels of personal US household debt

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the...bt-in-america/

(iv) increasing austerity and inequality

https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion...ality-america/

[pritch]

Ownership of various properties and business's can't hurt. Interest rates on money he has might be more than penalty rates on money owed (if even such penalty rates exist).

"Ownership" might need some defining in this instance. It was Russian money bought most of the properties, all of which are bleeding cash, but whether it was loaned to him or he was a front for a money laundering operation remains to be seen.

[F5 Dave]

Make America Grate (sp) again translated into make America Great for whites like it was perceived in the 70s, 80s.

[sugilite:Me]

Are you OK? This is the most ill disciplined, poorly thought out post I have ever seen from you.

I said the rate of growth doubled...

Did not even come close, as Viking pointed out.

So you have emails/bug reports/Memos/Anything to back this up, yes?

Something that shows actual intent to defraud, yes?

Not conjecture based on circumstantial facts and your view of Trump?

Because if you had such proof, it would be plastered across every single left-wing outlet from now until the Rapture and given how Loudly they bleated about things like the Impeachment, I think I've got a reasonably strong case to say that no such evidence either exists or has come to public knowledge.

So, you do not want to acknowledge electoral fraud despite a head spinning amount of court cases and scrutiny due to some small obscure anomalies, but cannot see fraud when in plain sight when comparing dem refunds and the statistically MUCH higher trump campaign ones. If those numbers were reversed between the parties, I don't need to guess what you would be saying then.
what you are doing is requiring me to find evidence that is not publicly available while totally ignoring the stats that ARE available. Very poor form mate.

I'm sure you will, but if you would also read the Academic literature that backs the points I'm making you'll realise that your enjoyment isn't as satisfying as you first thought. A lot more depressing, in fact.

The problem is because you cling so desperately to giving Trump free passes, your credibility is shot to hell, like many former trump employees are finding out now. Your desperate out of context posts, demands of proof that are not available and outright bullshit have invoked the cry wolf effect. Your ill thought out posts on political ideologies and recently the american economy have found you badly wanting. So no, I will not bother reading your right wing loony fringe alternate reality tripe.

Disagreee on the first part - from 2 positions.

The first being Absolute Pedantry - but unless the Atoms that comprise the resource are destroyed (and even then Matter can be converted to Energy and hypothetically vice-versa), then in 'theory' it should be possible to recycle everything

What, now you want to look at science while completely ignoring it in your attack on mask wearing? I find your invoking or rejection of science purely depending on what point you are trying to peddle - frankly distasteful.

I know you aren't a Dem lover - you wish to nail Trump for saying he could shoot a single person dead and still be popular - I consider that Hyperbole.

Completely wrong, and deliberately misleading. I'm not looking to nail trump as he said people would still vote for him if he shot someone, he was not actually stating he would shoot someone. The point I was making as I'm sure you are well aware, the types of people he was alluding to that would still vote for him is 100% the likes of you that will defend him beyond all rationality. He is a crafty man at times and he plays to the fact that so many people such as yourself will endlessly defend him - in fact he relies on numpties doing that.

Biden butchered the Jefferson quote - which for a US President should be borderline inexcusable.

Yes, agreed - poor form. The previous president said among many other crazy shit made an awkward blunder during his Independence Day speech, praising the army, which he said “took over the airports” from the British during the revolutionary war in the late 1700s. I did not see you posting that it is borderline inexcusable to not know there were no airports in the 1700's. I would put up the many of trumps speech fuckups against bidens ones any day. Naturally it is the broken american political systems that can only offer up turd sandwich vs doochs options at election time - and old fuddy duddies at that. Anyway, it just shows how hard you lean into your TDS when you can ignore references to airports in the 1700's and make out biden is the poor performing president when it comes to speeches.

But as per President Biden - if you want to overthrow the US Government, you need F15s and Nukes, right? So whatever happened on Jan 6th cannot have been an insurrection - no F15s or Nukes were involved....

This is getting tiresome, As mentioned many, many times now, I view the jan 6th as a riot. Trump supporters are simply not smart enough to mount a credible insurrection.

Then we have to consider what his intent was - and I'm going to use your words:

"if you want to take on the government, you will need more than the weapons he is looking to get banned"

Then, there's absolutely no reason for the Government to ban them, is there? Clearly not a threat (as per Biden).

You mean bidens words right? This is about as facetious a reply as I have ever seen you make. Talk to the families of all the school mass shooting victims, tell them there is no need to ban the types of weapons that stole their children's lives and futures because they simply were not as lethal as nukes and f15's? This is truly beneath you. I know you are deeply upset that Jacinda restricted the types of bang bang's you can own, but still - it is very sad to see you stoop this low mate

And it's doubly hilarious because the Democrats have long held up the argument that the AR platform is a Weapon of War and so should only be used by the Military, yet in the same breath - they are now saying it's innefective as a Weapon of War... I mean take your pick - which is it? Is it an effective tool or not?

Now the funny part is, I actually semi-agree with what Biden is saying - that if the US Government DID turn tyrannical, the level of Firepower available to it (assuming no mass desertions - which considering it would be a gross violation of the Posse Comitatus act, is unlikely) would be very one-sided - but that Threat is based on the willingness to Nuke your own citizens.

So the US army got rid of guns once they got nukes? Again, this is so desperate, it is not really funny, just sad the level you are dropping down to. Biden was in no way making a threat, he was stating fact that it would take more than a few guns to beat a government these days. I see no threat, and in fact it was barely reported on fox and there was no avalanche of comments sharing your position either. This is how far you have strayed from reality. So you see my point that you are the type of supporter trump was talking about when he made the shoot someone statement.

So I'll leave it at this - I'm happy to interpret what Biden said as clearly Hyperbole, he doesn't want to actually nuke the Citizenry of the US but in order for me to hold that interpretation you will likewise have to hold the position that Trump doesn't want to shoot anyone in 5th Avenue either.

If course, neither meant it literally and neither stated they would do either deed.
In case you still do not get it, I invoked that Trump statement because he truly was talking precisely about the likes of you.
And the posts you make above make that absolutely abundantly clear.
You do defend him beyond any sort of logical reasoning. You get points for being the largest Trump apologist still standing in this thread. But doing so has damaged your credibility pretty much beyond repair - you just don't realize it because you suffer so badly from TDS.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you OK? This is the most ill disciplined, poorly thought out post I have ever seen from you.

Did not even come close, as Viking pointed out.

I'm fine, thanks for asking

I'm still working on the rebuttal there, so I'll have to take a pause.

So, you do not want to acknowledge electoral fraud despite a head spinning amount of court cases and scrutiny due to some small obscure anomalies, but cannot see fraud when in plain sight when comparing dem refunds and the statistically MUCH higher trump campaign ones. If those numbers were reversed between the parties, I don't need to guess what you would be saying then.
what you are doing is requiring me to find evidence that is not publicly available while totally ignoring the stats that ARE available. Very poor form mate.

Well, not quite - I've been very clear that if you were to demand the level of proof from me that I am demanding of you, I cannot prove that Fraud happened.

So, in your case, you would have to concede that you cannot prove there is any Malice.

I would accept if you withdrew to that position, that you can't prove it, but your prior beliefs have shaped your judgement - that is the point I'm getting you to admit.

So no, I will not bother reading your right wing loony fringe alternate reality tripe.

Except I'm not asking you to read any such thing.

I'm asking you to read the LEFT wing Loony fringe alternate reality tripe that has permeated the Education system.

I've repeatedly said 'Don't take my word for it that it's all Marxist derived nonsense, Go read their text books, they aren't shy about it'

What, now you want to look at science while completely ignoring it in your attack on mask wearing? I find your invoking or rejection of science purely depending on what point you are trying to peddle - frankly distasteful.

My attack was that Mask Wearing became a sign of religious Piety.

Case in point - the other day I saw a Cyclist in NZ riding down a steep hill, wearing a very obvious and colourful face mask - No problem, right? Except he wasn't wearing a Helmet. This person was an embodiment of everything that I am critical of.

If he (the Cyclist) is so concerned about Safety, why are they not wearing a Helmet?
If he (the Cyclist) is so concerned about following Government Guidelines (or even Law, I think?), why are they not wearing a Helmet?

The Mask in this case is more about a public display of piety. It is a public statement of 'I am a good person because I do XYZ' - which I have little to no time for.

In addition to that, I am hold a position that the Government does not get to compel me to wear certain things, regardless of the Nobility of Intent. Especially when the wearing or not wearing of it can be used to restrict people from services that they would otherwise be able to access.

The only thing I've said about the actual Science of Mask wearing is that in the beginning it was unclear and it seems subsequently that Masks that filter out particles of a certain size, do help limit the transmission.

Completely wrong, and deliberately misleading. I'm not looking to nail trump as he said people would still vote for him if he shot someone, he was not actually stating he would shoot someone. The point I was making as I'm sure you are well aware, the types of people he was alluding to that would still vote for him is 100% the likes of you that will defend him beyond all rationality. He is a crafty man at times and he plays to the fact that so many people such as yourself will endlessly defend him - in fact he relies on numpties doing that.

Okay, if that's the position you want to argue - not on the act but on the Hyperbole that he is saying he is very popular - let's go with that.

There's the Obvious question - Why?

Perhaps if you want a flipside argument - why would people in Chicago still vote Democrat when Democrat policies of the last 6 years have resulted in a massive increase in the Murder rate?

Yes, agreed - poor form. The previous president said among many other crazy shit made an awkward blunder during his Independence Day speech, praising the army, which he said “took over the airports” from the British during the revolutionary war in the late 1700s. I did not see you posting that it is borderline inexcusable to not know there were no airports in the 1700's. I would put up the many of trumps speech fuckups against bidens ones any day. Naturally it is the broken american political systems that can only offer up turd sandwich vs doochs options at election time - and old fuddy duddies at that. Anyway, it just shows how hard you lean into your TDS when you can ignore references to airports in the 1700's and make out biden is the poor performing president when it comes to speeches.

If I was going to make a list of Biden's public speaking Faux Pas, it would be very long, but I don't. In this particular case however, I'm raising it as an example of a Man who does not respect (or understand) the foundational principles that the country he is leading was built on.

It would be as bad to me if a British Prime Minister tried to reference a Churchill speech (This was their finest hour, We shall fight them on the Beaches, Never in the field of Human history was so much owed by so many to so few etc.)

This is getting tiresome, As mentioned many, many times now, I view the jan 6th as a riot. Trump supporters are simply not smart enough to mount a credible insurrection.

Well, upon that we agree.

You mean bidens words right? This is about as facetious a reply as I have ever seen you make. Talk to the families of all the school mass shooting victims, tell them there is no need to ban the types of weapons that stole their children's lives and futures because they simply were not as lethal as nukes and f15's? This is truly beneath you. I know you are deeply upset that Jacinda restricted the types of bang bang's you can own, but still - it is very sad to see you stoop this low mate

Yes, I am deeply upset when the Government makes multiple mistakes and uses it's mistakes as justification to seize my Private Property. When has that ever gone wrong in the past?

So you'll be fine with Banning Cars, Swimming Pools, Drugs and Fire then? As they kill far more children annually than Semi-Automatic centrefire Rifles do.

Or better yet - let's take a quick look at the countries that historically enacted 'strong firearm control' before ushering in a Totalitarian Government. How many children died as a result of that?

The point is that the US as an Ideal is founded explicitly on the idea that the Common Citizenry can, at any moment, overthrow the Government using Armed Force. This idea was reasoned just after they had done just that. They didn't define any restriction on Arms - specifically for that reason. Biden's comment is not only historically and factually wrong, but it shows he doesn't understand (either willfully or via Ignorance) what the fundamental structure of the US is supposed to be.

So the US army got rid of guns once they got nukes? Again, this is so desperate, it is not really funny, just sad the level you are dropping down to. Biden was in no way making a threat, he was stating fact that it would take more than a few guns to beat a government these days. I see no threat, and in fact it was barely reported on fox and there was no avalanche of comments sharing your position either. This is how far you have strayed from reality. So you see my point that you are the type of supporter trump was talking about when he made the shoot someone statement.

I'm not sure why you bring Fox up, since I don't watch it. I've seen this speech critiqued in different places - from Firearm enthusiast channels, to Libertarian channels. And not just US based channels either.

It was an implied threat, a sort of 'Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'.

The main reasons it was picked up was firstly Biden was flat-out wrong in his historical statements, His butchering of a core maxim of the American Ideal and the hypocrisy of his position: If the Firearms he wants to ban aren't enough to overthrow the government, then there is no reason the common citizenry should be denied ownership of them. You cannot simultaneously make the case that something is a Weapon of War, only to be used by the Military etc. and then also make the case that it couldn't be used to fight a War.

If course, neither meant it literally and neither stated they would do either deed.
In case you still do not get it, I invoked that Trump statement because he truly was talking precisely about the likes of you.
And the posts you make above make that absolutely abundantly clear.
You do defend him beyond any sort of logical reasoning. You get points for being the largest Trump apologist still standing in this thread. But doing so has damaged your credibility pretty much beyond repair - you just don't realize it because you suffer so badly from TDS.

I asked above Why people support Trump, when even myself (according to you) is critical of many things about Trump.

The first is to ask what is the Alternative: The Democrats - which have demonstrably moved further and further to the Radical Left over time (Case in point, Trump - the 'Right Winger' was a Democrat voter in the 90s and was pictured with the likes of Bill Clinton etc. during that time frame), whereas the Republicans have moved very little (perhaps the biggest move has been away from Christian Fundamentalism)

The fact that today you have Democrat Senators like AOC proudly saying they are 'Democratic Socialists' (I'm fairly certain that Kim Jung Il considered himself a Democratic Socialist too....) should be enough of a clue as to how far left the Democrats have moved. Would you have a Democratic candidate in the 90s repeating Marxist rhetoric?

So that's the first reason - a Vote not for Trump is a vote for the Democrats who have gone off the rails. If the Party was mainly filled with Thulsi Gabbard types - then you might see a significantly different outcome.

But that is only half the question - If the Democrats are Cancer, then surely any Republican will do, right? Well, this comes back to several issues that I've hinted at earlier - there are the RINOs and the Neo-Con types and they are very well entrenched.

Then you have Trump - He hits many different notes:

Libertarian: Repeal of Bad legislation
Law and Order: Enforcement of Border Restrictions
Pro-American: America First
Anti-Woke: It has been the charge of Trump to see through the BS and call things out for what they are and now we are seeing the ripples in the US for Parents opposing Critical Race Theory.

If you contrast Trump with the UK conservatives - Trumps's Bombastic and 'Shoot-from-the-hip' style meant that he was identifying these issues long before other more 'measured' politicians were doing do. Sure - that same style has it's drawbacks and it's risks - but I happen to respect that. Same for David Seymour in NZ - he took a big risk on a certain aforementioned issue - he decided to make a princpled stand when the other two 'Conservative' parties of this country were busy forgetting what Conservative actually means.

Getting rid of Trump then is actually quite easy:

1: Clean the Democrat house of the Marxists and Socialists
2: Get a proper Libertarian conservative candidate

[FJRider]

I'm fine, thanks for asking

I'm still working on the rebuttal there, so I'll have to take a pause.

Good to hear ... but I'm still waiting on a rebuttal you told Pritch (I think)you'd do ... about a month back. I guess making all these rebuttals must be hard work. Maybe because you aren't imaginative enough to come up with any new bullshit theories ... A theory with some element of feasibility. And (dare I say) an element of (possible) truth.

Good luck with that ...

So, in your case, you would have to concede that you cannot prove there is any Malice.

ANY accusation of fraud ANYWHERE is done "With Malice" ... To effect punishment (if true) or aggravation (if untrue).

Except I'm not asking you to read any such thing.

You post it ... we read it ... and call it for what it is ... Good old fashioned TRIPE. Known locally as BULLSHIT.

I've called you out on it a few times ... and I'm still waiting for some cohesive argument.

My attack was that Mask Wearing became a sign of religious Piety.

Case in point - the other day I saw a Cyclist in NZ riding down a steep hill, wearing a very obvious and colourful face mask - No problem, right? Except he wasn't wearing a Helmet. This person was an embodiment of everything that I am critical of.

If he (the Cyclist) is so concerned about Safety, why are they not wearing a Helmet?
If he (the Cyclist) is so concerned about following Government Guidelines (or even Law, I think?), why are they not wearing a Helmet?

Are masks about health or safety. Are they the same thing .. ?? You have already admitted to lane-splitting ... and your own experiences of close calls. Enough to worry you at the time. But still claim it's perfectly safe (but still know it's not entirely legal).

In addition to that, I am hold a position that the Government does not get to compel me to wear certain things, regardless of the Nobility of Intent. Especially when the wearing or not wearing of it can be used to restrict people from services that they would otherwise be able to access.

Don't hold that position for too long ... it's bound to be painful. But if it is law ... it is required. And it is in your own best interests to do so. For the safety of your own health and that of your family. And anybody unlucky enough to be having anything to do with you ...

Okay, if that's the position you want to argue - not on the act but on the Hyperbole that he is saying he is very popular - let's go with that.

There's the Obvious question - Why?

He has money and position to get things done that people want done. Those with bugger all to lose would always support him. Regardless of how stupid and unlikely his proposals are.

Perhaps if you want a flipside argument - why would people in Chicago still vote Democrat when Democrat policies of the last 6 years have resulted in a massive increase in the Murder rate?

If it's not Democrats getting murdered ... what could possibly go wrong .. ??

If I was going to make a list of Biden's public speaking Faux Pas, it would be very long, but I don't. In this particular case however, I'm raising it as an example of a Man who does not respect (or understand) the foundational principles that the country he is leading was built on.

Make a list of Trumps speaking Faux Pas ... compare the two.

[pritch]

The previous president said among many other crazy shit made an awkward blunder during his Independence Day speech, praising the army, which he said “took over the airports” from the British during the revolutionary war in the late 1700s.

That was one of many. The idiot level ignorance and then the lies. All of his crank Covid cures, inject them with bleach, strong light kills it. Some redneck states buying up massive quantities of chloroquin on his say so and with which they are now stuck. Who knows but with global warming the anopheles mosquito might make itself at home there, then they'll need it.

Then there was one that many may have missed. Following his failed romance with Kim Jong Un the remains of some fallen US soldiers were returned to the US. Trump said he had received many calls from grateful parents. That's a double happy, it's a lie and it's stupid. Anybody who fought in Korea has to be in their eighties minimum. Their parents? 110 to 120 plus? Yeah right.

[F5 Dave]

Just to try stave off some of the Whataboutisims in perpetual circulation;

I don't think anyone here thinks Biden was a good choice.

It's just that Trump was so evil, and so stupid, that Satan or Elmer Fudd would have been a better choice.

[sugilite:Me]

I'm still working on the rebuttal there, so I'll have to take a pause.

If course, it must be tough defending the indefensible 100% of the time

Well, not quite - I've been very clear that if you were to demand the level of proof from me that I am demanding of you, I cannot prove that Fraud happened.

The thousands upon thousands of fraud complaints by his supporters along with the mega percentage more refunds than the dems is 100% proof. How do you breathe with your head stuck in the sand?

My attack was that Mask Wearing became a sign of religious Piety.

Case in point - the other day I saw a Cyclist in NZ riding down a steep hill, wearing a very obvious and colourful face mask - No problem, right? Except he wasn't wearing a Helmet. This person was an embodiment of everything that I am critical of.

If he (the Cyclist) is so concerned about Safety, why are they not wearing a Helmet?
If he (the Cyclist) is so concerned about following Government Guidelines (or even Law, I think?), why are they not wearing a Helmet?

The Mask in this case is more about a public display of piety. It is a public statement of 'I am a good person because I do XYZ' - which I have little to no time for.

Wow, just wow - you can not possibly know this cyclists life story - despite making out you do. The simple FACT is you do not know shit about him. Maybe he just wanted to keep his face warm, maybe he had just robbed a bank and was executing a stealthy getaway, maybe he lost his helmet. I repeat - you don't know shit about him.

Okay, if that's the position you want to argue - not on the act but on the Hyperbole that he is saying he is very popular - let's go with that.

There's the Obvious question - Why?

Because he has a gift for attracting gullible idiots that love nothing better to dine on his hyperbole. These gullible idiots don't seem to realize that because 95+% of what falls out his mouth is hyperbole, subsequently nothing he says can be taken seriously

If I was going to make a list of Biden's public speaking Faux Pas, it would be very long, but I don't. In this particular case however, I'm raising it as an example of a Man who does not respect (or understand) the foundational principles that the country he is leading was built on.

It would be as bad to me if a British Prime Minister tried to reference a Churchill speech (This was their finest hour, We shall fight them on the Beaches, Never in the field of Human history was so much owed by so many to so few etc.)

I could make a much longer list of Trumps and you know it lol. I see you are avoiding wanting to discuss trumps airport clanger, just want to focus on twisting Bidens words to make it sound like something he clearly did not intend - fancy that!

Yes, I am deeply upset when the Government makes multiple mistakes and uses it's mistakes as justification to seize my Private Property. When has that ever gone wrong in the past?

I'm very comfortable with what weapons have been controlled in this instance. You can still go hunting and kill things - chin up chap.

So you'll be fine with Banning Cars, Swimming Pools, Drugs and Fire then? As they kill far more children annually than Semi-Automatic centrefire Rifles do.

Yes, doing nothing is really working out well for the states on gun violence huh

The point is that the US as an Ideal is founded explicitly on the idea that the Common Citizenry can, at any moment, overthrow the Government using Armed Force. This idea was reasoned just after they had done just that. They didn't define any restriction on Arms - specifically for that reason. Biden's comment is not only historically and factually wrong, but it shows he doesn't understand (either willfully or via Ignorance) what the fundamental structure of the US is supposed to be.

Time change old chap. Some things just fade away - like nearly every single ideal the founding fathers set up. But just keep that laser scope on the 2nd amendment

I'm not sure why you bring Fox up, since I don't watch it. I've seen this speech critiqued in different places - from Firearm enthusiast channels, to Libertarian channels. And not just US based channels either.

Correct, no major news agencies jumped on it, it was just blown up by the loony fringe out of touch with reality mob. Loonies you seem well acquainted with

It was an implied threat, a sort of 'Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'.

You are embarrassing yourself, "implied threat" Only stupid trumpifiles could extract that from his statement.

The main reasons it was picked up was firstly Biden was flat-out wrong in his historical statements, His butchering of a core maxim of the American Ideal and the hypocrisy of his position: If the Firearms he wants to ban aren't enough to overthrow the government, then there is no reason the common citizenry should be denied ownership of them. You cannot simultaneously make the case that something is a Weapon of War, only to be used by the Military etc. and then also make the case that it couldn't be used to fight a War.

Control your hyperbole eh. The hypocrisy is yours for ignoring the many, many more times Trump butchered American history. ahem, airports in the 1700's

I asked above Why people support Trump, when even myself (according to you) is critical of many things about Trump.

You have to be joking, you critical of Trump?

The fact that today you have Democrat Senators like AOC proudly saying they are 'Democratic Socialists' (I'm fairly certain that Kim Jung Il considered himself a Democratic Socialist too....) should be enough of a clue as to how far left the Democrats have moved. Would you have a Democratic candidate in the 90s repeating Marxist rhetoric?

Would the republican party of the 90's let a cretin like Trump lead the party? I see your AOC and raise you a tayler-green

Then you have Trump - He hits many different notes:

Bum notes that saw him lose the house, lose the senate and lose the presidency

Getting rid of Trump then is actually quite easy:

News flash - He already has been got rid off - all it took was a free and fair election and woosh, down the dunny he went :grin:
Sure he can run in 24 (and I hope he does, never get sick of seeing him lose), but then he has lost a lot of votes already by defrauding thousands upon thousands of his donors. Build something, then burn it down with incompetency - the trump way

Looks like the New York DA lot have opted for a slow painful death by 1000 cuts - I approve, and look forward to Trump receiving many turds in his morning cornflakes in the coming months and years.

[sugilite:Me]

That was one of many. The idiot level ignorance and then the lies. All of his crank Covid cures, inject them with bleach, strong light kills it. Some redneck states buying up massive quantities of chloroquin on his say so and with which they are now stuck. Who knows but with global warming the anopheles mosquito might make itself at home there, then they'll need it.

Then there was one that many may have missed. Following his failed romance with Kim Jong Un the remains of some fallen US soldiers were returned to the US. Trump said he had received many calls from grateful parents. That's a double happy, it's a lie and it's stupid. Anybody who fought in Korea has to be in their eighties minimum. Their parents? 110 to 120 plus? Yeah right.

Yeah, TDS, opps I mean TDL seems oblivious to how much more material there is out there on trumps gaffes than even the gaffe prone biden.

[TheDemonLord]

Good to hear ... but I'm still waiting on a rebuttal you told Pritch (I think)you'd do ... about a month back. I guess making all these rebuttals must be hard work. Maybe because you aren't imaginative enough to come up with any new bullshit theories ... A theory with some element of feasibility. And (dare I say) an element of (possible) truth.

Good luck with that ...

More like Time, We finished a massive work project on the 30th of June - so busy playing catch up.

You post it ... we read it ... and call it for what it is ... Good old fashioned TRIPE. Known locally as BULLSHIT.

I've called you out on it a few times ... and I'm still waiting for some cohesive argument.

You can call what I write Tripe/Bullshit/Nonsense till the cows come home, you may have 'called me out on it' - but I don't mind, you are entitled to have you opinion of me, as you say - I post, you read it - what you choose to do with it is up to you.

However in this specific instance - I'm not asking anyone to read what I am saying, I'm suggesting they read what the Authors and Philosophers of that idea are saying.

Noel Ignatiev:

The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition other than from committed white supremacists.

Kalwant Bhopal:

CRT scholarship promulgates that all white people are, by default, implicated in preserving white supremacy

Sumi Cho:

assessing both achievements and failings of parallel efforts to raise race consciousness through student-led diversity struggle and CRT's scholarly interventions on race discourse. By linking histories of communal struggle with the individual agency of the initial critical race proponents, we demonstrate how antiracist practices and antiracist theorizing are metabolically intertwined.

Robin Diangelo

I was invited to the retirement party of a white friend. The party was a pot-luck picnic held in a public park. As I walked down the slope toward the picnic shelters, I noticed two parties going on side by side. One gathering was primarily composed of white people, and the other appeared to be all black people. I experienced a sense of disequilibrium as I approached and had to choose which party was my friend’s. I felt a mild sense of anxiety as I considered that I might have to enter the all-black group, then mild relief as I realized that my friend was in the other group. This relief was amplified as I thought that I might have mistakenly walked over to the black party!

I mean, I could go on - but in those 4 we have:

1: An explicit call for Genocide (the full quote involves some verbal backflips to try and weasel out of the accusation, comparing themselves to Anti-Monarchists - but my Skin Colour is not an institution)
2: Original Sin (Remember when I said Social Justice had all the hallmarks of a new religion) - All *white* people are born with Original Sin and therefore must repent!
3: They want to Raise Race Consciousness. They want me to see them as a "Black" Man instead of a Man. In total opposition to Martin Luther King's Dream. Funnily enough the NeoNazis and the KKK agree whole heartedly on this point.
4: Communal Struggles - Can we name an Ideology based around Commun... ideals?
5: You ever walked to a Park where you knew some friends were having a party and seen a group of mostly white people and a group of mostly Maori people and said to yourself 'I hope it's not the one with all the Maoris'? (or Asians or Indians or *insert demographic different to your own here*)

That's the actions of a Racist. I, on the other hand, don't and more importantly would never feel that way - I'm pretty sure most of the posters here also wouldn't be worried about joining a group where they were the minority race.

So I say again, you want to dismiss what I say as Bullshit - Be my Guest, but don't dismiss what the academics are saying, it might shock you.

Are masks about health or safety. Are they the same thing .. ?? You have already admitted to lane-splitting ... and your own experiences of close calls. Enough to worry you at the time. But still claim it's perfectly safe (but still know it's not entirely legal).

If you take the proponents of Mask wearing at their word, they are about Health and Safety. My position is that what they have become to certain people is a symbol of piety. Which is why it's perfectly logical to wear a Mask riding a bike without a helmet. It's not about Health or about Safety, it's about showing allegiance to certain tribe.

Don't hold that position for too long ... it's bound to be painful. But if it is law ... it is required. And it is in your own best interests to do so. For the safety of your own health and that of your family. And anybody unlucky enough to be having anything to do with you ...

Is it? I can think of many laws throughout history where time has show that non-compliance was absolutely the right thing to do.

He has money and position to get things done that people want done. Those with bugger all to lose would always support him. Regardless of how stupid and unlikely his proposals are.

Sure, he has Money and a Position - why are people not following the likes of Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos in the same manner then? It has nothing to do with Money or Power and everything to do with the ideals that his is putting forth.

If it's not Democrats getting murdered ... what could possibly go wrong .. ??

No one should be getting Murdered, that's kinda the point, when Policies that were implemented to appeal to an ideological viewpoint have results in a sharp increase in the number of Deaths (and ironically amongst the population the Policy was designed to 'protect'), then that says quite a bit.

Make a list of Trumps speaking Faux Pas ... compare the two.

Trump's would likely be longer, Biden's would likely be more serious.