See, I agree with your assessment - so the next question is:Originally Posted by pritch
What do you, Pritch, make of it?
There's a number of lines of conjecture that I think one could extrapolate on, but before I do - what is your thoughts on that?
The Majestic Metal Wizard
See, I agree with your assessment - so the next question is:
What do you, Pritch, make of it?
There's a number of lines of conjecture that I think one could extrapolate on, but before I do - what is your thoughts on that?
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Anorak
From what i seen the FBI were told to butt out of it, by the DC officials
TBH the FBI had issued a warning
Tuesday, Jan. 5
The FBI Field Office in Norfolk, Va., issues an explicit warning that extremists have plans for violence the next day, as first reported by the Post. It releases its advisory report after FBI analysts find a roster of troubling information including specific threats against members of Congress, an exchange of maps of the tunnel system under the Capitol complex and organizational plans like setting up gathering places in Kentucky, Pennsylvania and South Carolina so extremists can meet to convoy to Washington.
FBI Norfolk officials share what they have discovered with counterparts in D.C., the Post reports. The head of the FBI's Washington Field Office, Steven D'Antuono, later says that information is shared with the FBI's "law enforcement partners" through the bureau's Joint Terrorism Task Force. That includes the U.S. Capitol Police, U.S. Park Police, D.C.'s Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) and other agencies.
Also the National guard guess who they at under
Washington, D.C., is known for its multitude of law enforcement agencies — a fact reflected in the agencies involved in security on Jan. 6. The Metropolitan Police Department has jurisdiction on city streets; the U.S. Park Police on the Ellipse, where Trump's rally took place; the U.S. Secret Service in the vicinity of the White House; and the U.S. Capitol Police on the Capitol complex.
And then there is the National Guard. In the 50 states and Puerto Rico, the Guard is under the command of the governor. In Washington, D.C., however, the Guard is under the command of the president
but
the DC mayor said thisCapitol Police Chief Sund said in his Feb. 23 testimony that the Jan. 5 Norfolk report was reviewed by a Capitol Police sergeant assigned to a law enforcement joint terrorism task force, who sent it to an official in the Capitol Police intelligence division — but it was not forwarded to Sund. Metropolitan Police Chief Robert Contee said his force also received the report, but that the email did not come with any sort of alert to its importance.
FBi do not control the National guard which is the internal security in case things get out of controlWashington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser announces that the MPD will be the lead law enforcement agency and will coordinate with the Capitol Police, Park Police and Secret Service. "To be clear, the District of Columbia is not requesting other federal law enforcement personnel and discourages any additional deployment without immediate notification to, and consultation with, MPD if such plans are underway," Bowser tweets.
But to be fair to the the FBi or any other agency, who expect the US president to actively encourage a insurrection?Bowser requests, and receives, a limited force from the D.C. National Guard. The soldiers number 340, though they are unarmed and their job is to help with traffic flow — not law enforcement — which is to be handled by D.C. police.
lastly don't fear i am sure as an innocent man Trump and his team will co-operate fully with the investigation.
I seen this wee gem today it seems Trump on record asking for protection for "his supporters" on this day
Trump had fired practically anyone in the FBI that had said stuff he did not like have you ever seen a similar situation in US history.?Former Acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller told a House of Representatives panel that he spoke with Trump on Jan. 3,
President Donald Trump wanted National Guard troops in Washington to protect his supporters at a Jan. 6 rally that ended with them attacking the U.S. Capitol, leaving five dead, Trump's former Pentagon chief testified on Wednesday.
According to Miller's testimony, Trump asked during that meeting whether the District of Columbia's mayor had requested National Guard troops for Jan. 6, the day Congress was to ratify Joe Biden's presidential election victory.
Trump told Miller to "fill" the request, the former defense secretary testified. Miller said Trump told him: "Do whatever is necessary to protect demonstrators that were executing their constitutionally protected rights."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...chris-n1250956
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...er-wray-firing
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...mp-fbi-219355/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/u...fired-fbi.html
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/...k-his-pension/
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/20/172582...-text-messages
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Geriatric hoon
Nah. I don't mind a rational discussion but...
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Kiwibiker
I love how you think there is screes of information I can round up for you on the subject when they are so adept at covering their own arses
https://www.reuters.com/investigates...es-misconduct/
Oh, Oh, Oh I know this one! The FBI knew that with Trump being such a good president and a man of the people would never put his supporters and colleagues in danger. They knew Trump would never wind up his supporters to go and march for over an hour and mentioned the word peacefully just one single time. They knew that if any trouble started Trump would be marching right along side them as they knew he would. And if the very responsible president Trump could not make good on his words of marching along side them, he would jump straight onto his powerful social media account and stop any trouble immediately. He would never sit back for 3 hours and enjoy the carnage - would he? HaHAHa, if course he would, because he is the shittest president ever in US history. Biden's just a pretender, he has not got the real chops of Trump to be the shittest.
The irony of it all, is the dems have done such a shit job since gaining power, that they essentially need Trump to run in 24 to have any chance of retaining power
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Interesting Article - So my thoughts on it are 2-fold.I love how you think there is screes of information I can round up for you on the subject when they are so adept at covering their own arses
https://www.reuters.com/investigates...es-misconduct/
Unless I missed it - it appears that all the information that Reuters gathered was from the internal review process(es) to guard against judicial misconduct, which implies that the method for identifying Judges that have strayed is working.
That said, I'm very much of the opinion that Judges should be held to the highest standard, since they Judge the common person, so the slap on the wrists can fuck right off. I'm more from this school of thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisamnes
Certainly amusing
Indeed, Most popular president ever... Highest number of votes ever... Competent and experienced hand to guide the country to unity...The irony of it all, is the dems have done such a shit job since gaining power, that they essentially need Trump to run in 24 to have any chance of retaining power
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Well, let's start with the basics.
There's functionally two options:
They Knew about it (and so have lied)
They didn't know about it (and so are incompetent)
You've pretty much stated you don't believe the latter, so if we both agree that they knew about it and are lying, then we have to ask why.
And I suspect that your smart enough to know exactly where that line of conjecture leads and it isn't flattering to your position, which is why you decline.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kiwibiker
Oh yes, they have no problem identifying thousands of them, accountability? Non existent = SYSTEM FAILURE
Highest number of votes ever being Biden. Hell I had no idea you held him in such glowing regard
The Majestic Metal Wizard
I can't go as far as System Failure. Definitely something that needs to be addressed - no doubt. I look forward to Biden championing this issue....
But sarcastic jabs aside - for me to get to a system failure, I'd need to see that there was a significant proportion of judges that were seriously breaching the rules, specifically at sentencing.
For example, as improper as it is, railing an intern in your chambers is not as grievous a sin (as a Judge) as improperly sentencing someone.
However I'll agree that this raises a serious issue that Judges who misbehave are not subject to the same level of sanctions that they dish out and this is an affront to the moral principle about those who we elect to judge, should have to adhere to the highest of standards.
That's what the numbers (supposedly) say.Highest number of votes ever being Biden. Hell I had no idea you held him in such glowing regard
For one so *wildly* popular as to be the *most elected person ever* - something, quite simply, does not add up.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Geriatric hoon
Fuck! Did he seriously ask that. If he read news, instead of whatever he reads instead, he'd see it. It's really stark.
A Mexican immigrant voted. She had a green card which made her "legal" and honestly thought that entitled her to vote. But no, she needed to be a citizen. She got four years jail. A white guy voted for Trump and the GOP in his dead mothers name. Deliberate voter fraud. He got four years probation.
A white guy defrauded people of billions. He got three and a half years jail. A black guy stole $100, he got twenty years.
Towns like Ferguson, I use that example because it's extensively documeted, use the courts as a major source of funding. No black person there would own a car, they'd go broke from incessant bullshit traffic violations. The Mayor, the Judge and the Police were working together to fill the coffers.
Judges in the US are often elected. In some states there is no requirement that a judge is a lawyer, or even that they went to university. The educatonal qualification is that they must have graduated high school.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
The Majestic Metal Wizard
So, from a single town, you're extrapolating that the entire country has issues?
And in regards of Ferguson, the resolution came from the DoJ... Under Trump... Seems to me like the Checks and Balances that are there to correct these issues are working (maybe not promptly enough)
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Geriatric hoon
That's too simple. The FBI issued a statement saying they were unaware of the preparations for Jan 6th. However it was worded. We may know the truth one day, but not while Christopher Wray is FBI Director.
I've read both books by former FBI heads James Comey and Andrew McCabe. (The latter is the better read.) The FBI's reputation was not great for a number of reasons, ironically it was Trump's treatment of Comey and McCabe that garnered a degree of public sympathy for the FBI.
Actually Trump's methodology in these firings was typical of his small minded nastiness. He fired Comey while Comey was in California. Trump was presumably giggling to himself about Comey having to find his way back to DC at his own expense. The FBI Director does not travel alone, he has a staff and a security team, and they all fly in an FBI jet. Trump was rpeortedly enraged when he found out that Comey flew home in the FBI jet.
He fired Andrew McCabe a matter of hours before he was due to retire at the end of his twenty years so that McCabe's pension would be reduced dramatically. McCabe took legal action against the Justice Dapartment and won back his full pension.
Both Comey and McCabe were fired because they would not swear loyalty to Trump personally. Wray was appointed by Trump and kept his job, so I have to believe he did kiss the ring. The FBI Director is not supposed to be a political appointment, but under Trump it absolutely was. Biden may be making a mistake by leaving Wray in the job. Biden is presumably trying to return the FBI to traditional methods of operation, but it might have been better to request Wray's resignation first.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Geriatric hoon
It's not a single town, there are others similar. The issues vary but yes, the whole country has issues. Just because you are blissfully unaware of them doesn't mean the problems don't exist. Basically the whole US judicial system is rotten from the top down now that the Supreme Court has been corrupted.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Agreed that it's simplified - but it does represent the Binary choice - they either knew or they didn't.
Both of us suspect that they knew but are opting to say otherwise.
Before we proceed - why was the FBIs reputation in the toilet? I'm gonna start with the obvious - that before Trump - the FBI has had a history of acting politically, all the way back to it's foundation and Mr Hoover keeping files on everyone.
There was a video (that has since been yeeted from Youtube, funny that...) of one of the FBI people getting grilled over a series of Text Messages he sent about Trump, Text messages that seriously called into question his ability to be impartial. IIRC, you took the position that it didn't prove bias.
Other opinions on the dislike of the FBI range from - Far too cozy with other Government Agencies, Various Scandals, their original purpose (tackling prohibition gangs) is out of date etc.
Point is - The following criticisms that you are going to level at the FBI - existed in one form or another well before Trump (and likely well after).
Again, I have to point out that the FBI has been acting politically for quite some time. Putting this all at the feet of Trump is both historically absurd, but more importantly - it dodges what sparked this discussion:
What motive would the FBI have to deny that they knew about it?
If you assume that the entire FBI are Right-Wing Extremists (as you semi-infer) then clearly the only answer is because they wanted it to succeed.
If you assume the inverse (which given some of the evidence we did have, seems more likely) then the answer is because they wanted it to happen.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
The Majestic Metal Wizard
I don't doubt that there are other individual towns, which have individual issues.
The claim, however, is a Systemic one. And for that, the Evidence is weak.
Firstly, in both the examples provided, there is one hurdle which the Systemic claim fails at: That all the instances where identified and corrected by the internal checks and balances.
If the Checks and Balances are identifying a problem and correcting it, then there is (by definition) not a systemic issue.
Secondly, The Evidence is almost always compared against some hypothetical - for example, the high rates of Incarceration of Black People - the Claim is that in a perfect society, rates of offending would perfectly align with the ratios of groups within society. That makes a number of assumptions, most notable that in a perfectly free system, all people would make the same choice(s) - a notion that is not only absurd on it's face value, but furthermore is actually disproved by real-world data. In addition, such claims ignore contradicting evidence - as an example, earlier I pointed to the massive over representation of African Americans in the Murder stats (both as perpetrator and Victim). Before we can assert that it's the system that is biased, we have to account for that data point.
Thirdly, the theory of Systemic oppression is based on a load of Marxist Waffle - I know you'll ignore this part, but it bears repeating - The philosophical lineage of these concepts can be traced back to Marx, they are not ideas that were statistically derived, but merely tools conjured up to try and usher in the Glorious Revolution.
And as if I've not proved this umpteen times - the person to first come up with the idea of 'Institutional Racism' - one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokely_Carmichael - and surprise surprise he wanted 'Revolutionary Socialism' - and a quick bonus point - he was quite fond of Hitler... Calling him a Genius multiple times...
Let's further add in the statements of one of Stokely's contemporaries in the Black Power Movement (y'know, that thing, with the Marxist Fist - which BLM took heavy inspiration from) - one Bobby Seale:
Class Struggle?In our view it is a class struggle between the massive proletarian working class and the small, minority ruling class. Working-class people of all colors must unite against the exploitative, oppressive ruling class. So let me emphasize again—we believe our fight is a class struggle and not a race struggle.
Proletariate?
Workers of the world Unite?
Sound familiar at all?
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Anorak
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
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