Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[pete376403]

Quote "Even when taking in context and even allowing him grace in that he is talking about fringe scenarios that are difficult - what he said:

[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen, The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
That still sounds horrific to me."

replying to this as such an event happened in a family known to me - two older (approaching 50's) parents; the mother was informed her foetus was severely brain damaged and would never live without constant care. She (the husband apparently had no say in the matter) insisted that the child would be delivered alive. And it was, having a condition known as "smooth brain" (Lissencephaly) After the initial rush of "my precious baby will be loved and cherished forever", she got rather tired of the constant care and attention and decided to go off to be an artist. The child has been dumped back into the health system and kept alive at rather considerable expense, even though it will never be anything. It makes random noises, eats and shits. What is the benefit to anyone, including that child? DL - can I put your name forward as a possible caregiver?

[TheDemonLord]

I'm yet to see trump talking with any kind of ,meaningful depth about any of these policies.
In my time of observing politics here and the USA - I consider the gold standard of articulating policy to be David Seymour. You are never left wondering what the policy is and how and when it will be implemented. While I do not agree with many of his policies, I do acknowledge his articulation of said policy is top draw stuff.
So, with Seymour being a 10 out of 10 for policy articulation, where do you place trump on that scale?
I give trump a 1 out of 10. He only gets the "1" for occasionally mentioning the title of a policy.

Trying to butter me up with Seymour - nice try

I will answer your question in the form of a Military Joke:

A New Lieutenant is being interviewed about what it means to command. In the interview panel, the lieutenant is asked how he would raise the flag pole on the parade square.

The Lieutenant pauses for a moment, before confidently answering about where the flag pole is stored, the hinge, the flag pin, the rope he would use etc. etc.

After he finishes, he waits for the board to accept his answer. To his disappointment, the board unanimously says that is the wrong answer. Confused, the Lieutenant asks the Colonel on the board how he should have answered it.

The Colonel pauses, buzzes the door and calls in the Sargeant.

‘Sergeant, get that pole raised, I’ll check back in with you later‘

Trump is very much this style of leader (in my opinion) - he dictates where he wants to go, then lets his staff work out how to get there. Whereas Seymour is an Engineer and so outlines each variable and how it will be accounted for.

I like both.

I'm not naive enough to believe that they have published every unpalatable policy they will seek to bring in - are you?

Okay - let me indulge a little - I am... Infamous... shall we say for my tirades against Marxism and all its derivative ideas - and often point out that for certain groups, this is their ulterior motive.

If we take the Project 2025 and use my same end-goal analysis: What does it look like - A Christian country, laws designed to encourage the nuclear family.

Could be a whole lot worse - so I invite you, let your imagination run as wild as mine is said to - what are these unpalatable policies and what does the country look like?

Simone Biles saying she "loved her black job". Had many fox contributors and commenters losing their heads and saying (the polite version) she should not wade into politics and only comment on gymnastics. And all she was doing was showing support for trump by quoting him
There are PLENTY of other instances out there where right wingers suddenly find free speech inconvenient. I see trump trolled taylor swift last night posting up an ai photo on truth social of her supposed supporters wearing swifties for trump t shirts and trump "accepting" their endorsement. If I were Swift, I would make an endorsement (as is her first amendment right) the night before the actual election date. Fuck trump lol.

Even if I accept your instances - I put it to you that it is a reaction to the cancelling and hate speech that is done by the Left. And again - the point was - I remember when the ACLU had a Jewish lawyer defend a Neo Nazis right to parade - on principle. That was what the Left used to be about when it came to Free Speech.

Would the Left of today do such a thing?

Initially the left tried attaching Ukraine money to it, but then put it through separately. The maga mob then under trumps prompting refused to put the stand aslone version of it through to the senate. The rest of what you say (17 years ago etc) is moot because it was the strongest border proposal ever put forward in the history of the usa.

Ah, so initially it was a poisoned chalice and then subsequent drinks orders were refused... When that context is added, not quite so clear cut. I wouldn't trust them either. Furthermore - if I were to believe the Democrats were serious on the Border, the expectation would be they would be doing everything they could within the current laws - and curiously enough... I don't see that happening.

And I told you at the time that i formed my opinions on the lying piece of shits own words from videos. I already thought he was a dickhead from his apprentice days, though a entertaining dickhead, i prob watched at least 10 episodes of it.

I am sure if I spent enough time I could dig up the actual quote - it is somewhere in the 400+ pages of discussion. My Memory is that one of your points was about not paying his contractors - which was what I tracked down. I like the man, you don't.

Funny you bring up rogan, as trump dissed him big time last week when he dared to say he would vote RFK. Your guy is a proper cry baby eh, wahhhhh, waaaahhhhhh waaaaaahhhhhhhh

But the point is, again, Rogan who is objectively Centre Left - is referred to as Far Right. Just another example of how far the left has shifted.

Cuts both ways sport, as you well know both sides have to live with their radicals, and the left right now, waaaaaaaay better than the right at controlling them. For example - the maga mob in the house have shown for the last 2 years is they cannot work together and sure as shit cannot pass laws, you know - their job! Marge is now trying to remove their latest speaker lol

Yes... Communists have always been better at quelling dissention in the ranks

Your history lesson past this point are also moot as hazy is exactly what this corrupted supreme court was going for.
If they have shown anything over the last two years, this supreme court will cheerfully pop past presidents into the trash in aid of their convicted criminal mate and corporate masters.

Gotta disagree here. IMO this Supreme Court have done a lot to overturn bad precedents set by bad judgements. Roe is the obvious example - but even RBG who defended Roe from a pragmatic view (she supported the right to abortion) was heavily critical of the judicial reasoning that underpinned Roe. Reasoning that IMO was rightfully overturned despite being Pro-Choice myself.

If there is a specific decision that you disagree with - I will happily read up - but all the major ones (Dobbs, Immunity etc.) are consistent with historical and textual precedents.

[TheDemonLord]

Quote "Even when taking in context and even allowing him grace in that he is talking about fringe scenarios that are difficult - what he said:

[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen, The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
That still sounds horrific to me."

replying to this as such an event happened in a family known to me - two older (approaching 50's) parents; the mother was informed her foetus was severely brain damaged and would never live without constant care. She (the husband apparently had no say in the matter) insisted that the child would be delivered alive. And it was, having a condition known as "smooth brain" (Lissencephaly) After the initial rush of "my precious baby will be loved and cherished forever", she got rather tired of the constant care and attention and decided to go off to be an artist. The child has been dumped back into the health system and kept alive at rather considerable expense, even though it will never be anything. It makes random noises, eats and shits. What is the benefit to anyone, including that child? DL - can I put your name forward as a possible caregiver?

Sure - on one condition:

Can I put your name forward as the person to swing the blade?

Point scoring aside - let us entertain a hypothetical - let us say there are people that will never be self-sufficient, will always be a drain on societies resources - do we have a moral right to kill them whether by direct action (as above) or by inaction (neglecting them till they die) - certainly there have been societies historically that have done that. Certainly one can make a economic, mental health (as in your friends) and all manner of arguments - Is that a society you want to live in?

I don't.

But let us go one step further - lets say we both agree that in some circumstances this might be acceptable - where do you draw the line? What conditions are acceptable for euthanasia? It feels like we are verging awfully close to eugenics territory (and I don't mean you support it) - and that gives me the heebees.

And so as a matter of principle - I say that the slope on the other side of this issue is long and slippery - but I pay the tax burden of keeping that individual alive because the alternative is far more terrifying.

[sugilite:Me]

They are the tail that wags the dog though.

Holy shit man, the maga tail has shaken the dog so much, the only remaining part of said dog left is an old arse hole and a bunch of dags!

Trying to butter me up with Seymour - nice try

I will answer your question in the form of a Military Joke:

You mean you will sidestep answering the too hard questions.
P.S. actually serious about seymour and trump should really know policy as he is not giving orders to his sycophants, he is telling the public at rallies what his parties policies are - well in theory he should. I'm sure you are well aware of your attempted sidestep and sneaky straw man.

I wont be down your ways for a while, but sounds like it would be a great opportunity to do it over a pint, in front of a fire.

Yep, we will probably need to, as your answers today are ever progressively avoiding the meat of my points. Which of course is when we both know you are on the ropes. If you disagree with this point - I will post one more time and show you where you are in avoidance mode, but then - no more because I see little point putting effort in if you are not going to step up to the plate.

Sure - on one condition:

Can I put your name forward as the person to swing the blade?

It strongly appears donald trump believes in abortion up to the age of 25.

[TheDemonLord]

Holy shit man, the maga tail has shaken the dog so much, the only remaining part of said dog left is an old arse hole and a bunch of dags!

I am not so sure on this point. From a Policy stand point, most of what MAGA represents is very much generic Right Wing policy. It is not aligned per-se with the traditional Christian Right, and from a decorum point of view it does deviate substantially from traditional conservative or republican sensibilities.

Perhaps you could say that their relationship and view of the Media and Institutions is a definitive break from traditional Republican norms - however I would counter that this was caused by those entities departing from their traditional norms.

When the Media is (mostly) politically neutral - the Traditional Republican type respects it as an institution.
When the Media is blatantly partisan for the Democrats - the MAGA types call them dirty smear merchants.

So whilst there are elements I could concede that there has been an element of that, from my point of view - there are causal elements outside of the Republican party.

You mean you will sidestep answering the too hard questions.
P.S. actually serious about seymour and trump should really know policy as he is not giving orders to his sycophants, he is telling the public at rallies what his parties policies are - well in theory he should. I'm sure you are well aware of your attempted sidestep and sneaky straw man.

It isnt a straw man (but I thought it was a good joke) - I saw a video from one of my preferred Right Wing news outlets where they were talking about Trump - it may have even been an interview with Seb Gorka - might not have been. Anyway - this channel were self-avowed Trump fans like myself - and they made an interesting point:

Trump seems to act on instinct or his Gut.

This was not said as an insult, but more an observation. So to your point - no, I dont believe that Trump has every single detail worked out in advance - I expect him to look at a situation and go: 'We are gonna pick this option. It is a beautiful option. The greatest option ever. We are going to have the best option in the history of this great nation. Look at this option, it's really great.'

That notion might strike terror into you that I could be so blaise - so let me give an example of what I mean - when some middle eastern country shot down a US drone, a Retaliation was suggested. Which would have killed people. Trump vetoed it - killing people for the loss of some equipment did not sit well with him. That is the sort of gut-feel decision making that Trump does. Suffice to say, I am fine with it.

Yep, we will probably need to, as your answers today are ever progressively avoiding the meat of my points. Which of course is when we both know you are on the ropes. If you disagree with this point - I will post one more time and show you where you are in avoidance mode, but then - no more because I see little point putting effort in if you are not going to step up to the plate.

We were talking different things though - my point was to demonstrate on a number of issues how far the Left has moved over the last ~20 years. It is less about the specific points themselves.

Plus, I am a little rusty

It strongly appears donald trump believes in abortion up to the age of 25.

Curious... How that Comment was only made where no one could witness it or hear it.
Curious... How Fred Trump voted for Hilary, Biden and Kamala - now could he have a motive for saying something abhorrent but completely unproveable?
Curious... How multiple news outlets on the same day cover the same story with similar verbiage: 'Shocking!', 'Exposed!' etc. (that came up with I went to Google Fred Trump)

This old Chesnut I think is relephant.


Now - allow me to put my own bit of hearsay - from a Brit, SAS trooper - Obi Wan Nairobi (Christian Craighead), talking about accidentally meeting Trump:



There is another video somewhere of some other SF or similar type guy talking about meeting Trump - I wish I could find who it was or the context - but it was something similar - there was an incident and some Americans were saved - that person said something very similar about Trump - that the first thing he said was thanking him for protecting or saving Americans.

It struck me because I have two independent sources that describe a very similar interaction. I have no reason to believe that either party knew of the other ones interaction with the Donald - so it isnt a co-ordinated media campaign, just two guys relaying their experiences - and as you can tell from Mr Craighead - he is not partisan and doesnt want any part of politics.

Then you have things like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/c...t_with_donald/

I struggled to find a single negative interaction - and Reddit has a tendency to lean left (there are obviously right-wing sub reddits - but there is an overall trend to the left)

[R650R]

Time for a laugh this guy is good

[pritch]

The latest from the Lincoln Project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpLpOtFNFWg

[neels]

So kbdope disappears and TDL returns, surely just coincidental timing.

I fear the onset of RSI in my mousing finger from scrolling past enormous walls of text.

[Berries]

So kbdope disappears and TDL returns, surely just coincidental timing.

I fear the onset of RSI in my mousing finger from scrolling past enormous walls of text.

TDL or TLDR?

I am happy however to see that he has paid his dues to society and is back out.

[1/32 man]

I have just read where trumpf backs down from saying he should be able to control interest rates....what a move from the stable genius!
and as for his AI steal regarding Swifties support....I am waiting for a response from herself.

[Grumph]

So kbdope disappears and TDL returns, surely just coincidental timing.

I fear the onset of RSI in my mousing finger from scrolling past enormous walls of text.

Several years back I publicly enquired how I went about disabling his multi-quote button.

Disabling it would be a public service.

[TheDemonLord]

So kbdope disappears and TDL returns, surely just coincidental timing.

I fear the onset of RSI in my mousing finger from scrolling past enormous walls of text.

Okay - Bants aside - but my writing style is pretty distinctive (Multi-quotes, philosophical references, random capital letters and a love of run-on sentences) - I am not gonna throw shade on someone else - but I am pretty goddamn unique.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL or TLDR?

I am happy however to see that he has paid his dues to society and is back out.

Nah - it was a combination of factors, change in jobs - personal life issues, trying to argue less and enjoy life more.

The Trump assassination attempt made me think of you guys though, so I stuck my head back in. I was missed be a few people - it was touching (they know who they are)

[TheDemonLord]

Several years back I publicly enquired how I went about disabling his multi-quote button.

Disabling it would be a public service.

The irony is I don't use a button, I am so used to doing it, I just type out the opening and closing PHP tags now.

[pritch]

I know how the opposite worked out when in the 90's when after successive governments had underfunded mental health and many of the psychiatric hospitals were shuttered due to building decay. The government of the day (cannot remember which flavor it was) simply cast most of the patients out onto the streets and the police suddenly became mental health providers.

That was Shipley. When this was discussed on TV she was asked what if the former mental patients committed crimes. She replied that was a matter for the Police.
Which is of no help to people murdered by mental patients and yes, that has happened here.