Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[F5 Dave]

What beggers belief is that there are those that somehow think that he has thier sorry little interests at heart or even the good of their country.

What is sadder is the dumb kiwis amongst our rank that think they are somehow American.
Too much USA TV which had to have an effect on or society.

[Kickaha]

He's a prominent example of the narcissistic, entitled class of person who simply don't believe the rules apply to them.

That's what happens when you get away with so much with no consequences over your lifetime

[TheDemonLord]

Fox has to be in the trump conversation as that is the place that overwhelmingly right wing voters get their news from.
I would suggest to you, that each side would milk the fuck out an failed assassination "opportunity". To me it would seem your beef should lie with why the right media has dropped it so fast. Why moan about the other sides whos interest is not in promoting it? Still, for me at least - I view this as a strange position for you to be holding.

The presumes I consider Fox to be the right wing media. Again - I rarely if ever go to Fox or use them as a source. Which is beside the point I was making - if the roles were reversed, would we have seen it dropped as quickly.

First of all, interviewing some dudes in a barbershop is hardly what I would call a robust link. 2nd, I'm very surprised you go to CNN for your news, wow. (or perhaps struggling to find material that supports your theory?) 3rdly, I would suggest that a large hall of black journalists would be about the most stupid place that trump could put forward this nonsense. I notice trump has since dropped this line of stupidity.

I have heard that sentiment on multiple disparate channels. You asked for proof - so I selected on that is most biased *against* my position. 4 random black guys in a Barbershop all hold the same belief as to Kamala and her claims of Race - when have you seen 4 random people agree on anything when it comes to politics?

Both men served their country in their respective roles just fine. Each side are being abject wankers about it. Fox's latest gambit of saying that walz is a sleeper agent because he taught in chinese schools 13 odd years before running for office is especially pathetic. (Comer was pushing it on fox too, needs to be investigated he says). Apparently comer is a gluten for humiliation as their biden impeachment effort just recently ended with no evidence to impeach. The house maga mobs witchhunt essentially had the effect of totally exonerating president biden! Now that is genuinely hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVMkvv8PQhk

This is perhaps the most even breakdown of the issues that veterans have with Walz. But the TL;DR is:

- Is claiming he retired at a rank he did not earn
- Enrolled in a limited space school when he was on his way out
- Did not deploy to combat with his unit

Now, to clarify - since he was an acting CSM, I give him a free pass for saying he was a CSM, even though the above link goes through why saying that is wrong. The other stuff, I dont have a strong opinion on - but I do find the critique from fellow service-members, on service related issues to be interesting.

First, why an earth would they not bring out michelle when she has speaking skills that she does, and is wildly popular and motivating.

Because she isnt running to be President... Is she... And if part of your pitch is first black female president, it does not do well to be upstaged by Michelle.

Furthermore, a stark contrast between the dem and maga convention was the dems rolled out multiple past presidents, and ramped up the razzmatazz with current music stars and such. In contrast, the maga mob wheeled out no past presidents, a tired old ex wrestler and kid rock, an aged musician whose careers best years are decades behind him. Oh yes, lets not forget a bunch of unlicensed music they are now being sued over - again.

I tell you one thing Brother, when the thousands of Trump-o-Maniacs Say their prayers and eat their vitamins Brother...

(okay that is enough of that)

Hulk cutting a wrestling Promo was... Amusing - to say the least. Kid Rock is still surprisingly relevant amongst his demographic (Red Necks, lets be honest) - There was also the OF star (I forget her name) at the RNC - which caused some discussion.

You say the Dems wheeled out multiple past presidents - almost as if they are trying to project an air of Legitimacy to Kamala that she does not have. One might say - Overcompensating.

My apologies, what you actually said was "Organizing the end of the Middle East Wars is another,". That is a pretty bloody compelling and finite statement - yes?

It is - and under his Presidency no new wars were started. And the current conflicts that America was involved in (for 20 years...) were negotiated to end.

That does not mean full Peace in the Middle East.

Until Biden screwed it all up.

In fact - as an aside, I was talking with an Iranian regular at my local Gym (the guy is built like a Persian Wrestler - all chest) - and his perspective (as someone from that region) on both Biden, Trump and the current Conflicts was a hell of a lot more scathing than even my most pointed critique.

I view this line of logic as being highly subjective at best. I do not attribute anywhere near as much influence to trump on the middle east as what you do. It is my view that trump would not hesitate to send the country to war if it were to benefit himself. The fact that pretty much his only military retaliatory response was he took out that general who mean tweeted him speaks volumes about where his priority lies when it comes to taking military action. Remember, I have formed my opinion on trump from his own words, actions and non actions. Because you have this mind boggling blind spot when it comes to trump - let me offer the two examples you have provided in previous threads. Iran attacks drone - trumps response, ahhh meh, let it slide. Iranian general mean tweets trump, trump has him killed in a drone strike. As much as I have no doubt you will love that, the reality is he only chose to respond when his fragile ego was hurt. Not what you want or need in a leader.

Man, I wish you could have a chat with the guy I mentioned above. But okay - fair riposte, he drone struck someone for saying Mean Tweets - I mean it is wasn't like the guy had been a designated terrorist since the mid 2000s or assisted with the Iraqi insurgency or helped HAMAS or done a myriad of other things...

However if we contrast the two scenarios, because I think it is important:

Scenario 1: Let us assume he orders the retaliation strike for the Drone being shot down - a bunch of Rank-and-file soldiers are killed, the Leadership is intact and then gets to say that the USA Murdered innocent soldiers.

That works counter to Americas best interest.

On the flip-side, letting every single Terrorist leader know that if they start flapping their gums and getting uppity, they will suddenly find themselves removed from this plane of existence without any collateral damage - that makes the leadership think really carefully about how they want to behave. Yes, the Civilians will still make them a Martyr of sorts, that is unavoidable - but the message that we will no longer target your people or your soldiers, we will target You, specifically. That is a very powerful message, it removes the possibility of Violence as an option, which means that Dialogue must happen.

Very subjective once again in regards to Afghanistan. Trump does not have much of a clue about how the armed forces works apart from how to dodge the draft. It is the same US armed forces under both presidents, I doubt trump would of sent them a blue print on how to retract in a better fashion than what they did under Biden. In regards to the attack on Gaza, what is it?? saint trump does not start wars, or war hawk trump is so likely to start a war the hamas would have been too paralyzed with fear to act? For me the blood rushing to your woody for trump appears to be coming from the part of your brain that controls unbiased critical thinking

Subjective - perhaps - but the record remains consistent - multiple things happened under Obama, multiple things happened under Biden - Didn't happen under Trump. Biden changed the plan because he wanted a Photo-Op and it was a catastrophic failure - we cannot know if Trumps plan would have had the same issues - but given the overall de-escalation globally of conflict under Trump - yes, I give him that benefit.

I think Trump does not like war and the loss of *innocent* life - but I think he knows that judicious use of Violence is a necessary evil and your enemy needs to know it is an option.

If you kill 2-3 high ranking generals to make a point and in turn save thousands of lives - is that better, at least from a pragmatic view than the alternative. And yes - I will grant you that this is a form of the hTrolley problem

I'm getting real bored with this line highly subjective woulda, shoulda coulda rubbish

Happened under Bush Sr.
Happened under Clinton.
Happened under GW Bush.
Happened under Obama.
Didn't happen under Trump.
Happened under Biden.

Definitely subjective and in no way a pattern... If Trump gets a second term and things cool off globally (existing wars ending and no new wars) - will you then admit that there is some substance to this?

So you foresee the history books covering US presidents and their historical impact as simply showing one photo of trump with just the caption of "Interesting"

I mean, he's no George Washington or Jefferson. There will be the kabal of Leftie academics that will try and smear everything he did, but there will be those that will begrudgingly admit that he wasn't bad - there may even be a few of us at the other end who still have living memory of his Presidency that will be able to attest how good it was.

Like I said - Interestingly.

[1/32 man]

He was white and then he suddenly turned orange....just like that.

Is he orange or white?

We deserve an answer.

[1/32 man]

there may even be a few of us at the other end who still have living memory of his Presidency that will be able to attest how good it was.

Maaaate, yah dreaming. I have seen people describe him as reponsible for a milion covid deaths. The guy is incapable of doing anything useful for anyone except himself.

Please dont preach your lefty tolerant trumpiness here.

[TheDemonLord]

Maaaate, yah dreaming. I have seen people describe him as reponsible for a milion covid deaths. The guy is incapable of doing anything useful for anyone except himself.

Please dont preach your lefty tolerant trumpiness here.

And yet more people died under Biden from Covid.

Was the world a better place, with less war, less conflict, better economy etc. from 2016 - 2020 than before or after?

[sugilite:Me]

The presumes I consider Fox to be the right wing media.

Again, It is not about you. I cannot believe i have to say again. Fox undeniably is the place where the massive majority of right wing america gets its "news". You not watching fox does not magically erase what they say and do.

I have heard that sentiment on multiple disparate channels. You asked for proof

You showed a video of 4 guys that likely judging her race on her Indian name. Furthermore what you actually said is "I have heard commentary from African Americans that they really don't like it when people who aren't fully black, playing the black card." Your so called "proof" video does not show them as "really not liking it" they simply think she is not black. Show me proof backing your actual quote. Don't worry, I won't wait

And if part of your pitch is first black female president.

Yet curiously she never mentioned it once in her dnc speech.

One might say - Overcompensating.

So all the many previous gop presidents talking at past rnc events are also "overcompensating". Yet more sad weak misdirection?

In fact - as an aside, I was talking with an Iranian regular at my local Gym.

4 black guys walk intro a barbershop and a lone iranian walks into a gym = a sad joke if that is all you have in presenting "proof".

Definitely subjective and in no way a pattern

About the only serious point you made in that large batch of waffle.

[sugilite:Me]

A dozen GOP (rip) lawyers endorse kamala, say trump unfit to lead.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whi...-2024-showdown

[1/32 man]

And yet more people died under Biden from Covid.

Never have I read that before....and if true, it was because trump tried to wash or wish it away with thoughts and prayers and disinfectant instead of taking real action.

It shows what a useless *&^t he is when a real crisis shows up and his bullshed cant fix it.

[TheDemonLord]

Never have I read that before....and if true, it was because trump tried to wash or wish it away with thoughts and prayers and disinfectant instead of taking real action.

It shows what a useless *&^t he is when a real crisis shows up and his bullshed cant fix it.

Of course you have not read it before - why would you want to be presented with any facts that make Trump look good...

So - for the detail - according to the CDC, up until Trump left office - there were 424,325 Covid Deaths (it is not specified if that is died with or died from...)

As at September 1, 2022 - over 617,491 additional Covid Deaths were reported (1,041,816 - 424,325)

Clearly from the Numbers, Trump did a better job by 1.5 times than Biden. Yet, you still think that Trump was terrible for Covid and Biden was great. Why is that?

Not to mention Project Lightspeed was implemented under Trump (remember how everyone laughed at him saying a Vaccine couldn't be created in such a short time period, remember all the Democrats saying how they wouldn't take a Trump Vaccine? No?)

[nerrrd]

And yet more people died under Biden from Covid.

Was the world a better place, with less war, less conflict, better economy etc. from 2016 - 2020 than before or after?

Hmmm, funny you should mention 2020, which is when the pandemic began. So President Trump had what, March to November? President Biden had the next four years, that's hardly an apples vs apples comparison.

[TheDemonLord]

Again, It is not about you. I cannot believe i have to say again. Fox undeniably is the place where the massive majority of right wing america gets its "news". You not watching fox does not magically erase what they say and do.

Is it - Fox viewing numbers are 1,304,000 for their nightly news segment. That is against 30+ million registered Republicans.

Even if we include the YT channel, that has 11 million subscribers.

To that end, I dont think I am such an Outlier as you claim. I would say that Facebook is probably the leading place where the right wing of America get their news.

You showed a video of 4 guys that likely judging her race on her Indian name. Furthermore what you actually said is "I have heard commentary from African Americans that they really don't like it when people who aren't fully black, playing the black card." Your so called "proof" video does not show them as "really not liking it" they simply think she is not black. Show me proof backing your actual quote. Don't worry, I won't wait

Methinks you are shifting the goal post - that is one example, from CNN.

Here is another person https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtPlRZjYBow - Now - listen closely to what this person is saying:

Not African American and not descended from Slaves (like Rosa Parks)
and a preference that she acknowledge that she is Indian (and not "Black")

I will grant you I am distilling many different viewpoints into one Meta-view point - However, there is a subset of African Americans who take issue when Kamala tries to portray herself as one of them.

I should note - I am not a fan of Racial Politics in general - I am merely pointing out that what Trump said is in-line with that subset of Voters.

Yet curiously she never mentioned it once in her dnc speech.

Okay - I will take your word for it that she doesn't - however it does not invalidate all the chatter around her.

So all the many previous gop presidents talking at past rnc events are also "overcompensating". Yet more sad weak misdirection?

I had to go back to 2008 to find an RNC where a past Republican President spoke - so...

But to answer the point - the DNC could be summarized as 'Look at all these previous Presidents, see our Figurehead is just like them!'

4 black guys walk intro a barbershop and a lone iranian walks into a gym = a sad joke if that is all you have in presenting "proof".

You are asking for hard proof of other people nebulous opinions. A little uncharitable - Especially when voicing said opinions is not always met well.

About the only serious point you made in that large batch of waffle.

Okay - let me ask directly this - putting all your personal grievances for Trump to one side:

Compare Foreign Policy and its downstream effects of Obama, Biden and Trump - if you had to pick one to be the best - which one?

[TheDemonLord]

Hmmm, funny you should mention 2020, which is when the pandemic began. So President Trump had what, March to November? President Biden had the next four years, that's hardly an apples vs apples comparison.

I grant you it is not an entirely apples and apples comparison, as Biden had the benefit of the Vaccine that Trump helped develop. But the point remains from Feb-Jan, Trump had ~400K deaths and from Jan to September, Biden had ~600K deaths.

I put it to you that the President had very little impact on Covid.

[sugilite:Me]

To that end, I dont think I am such an Outlier as you claim.

You placed yourself there sport, putting words in my mouth to make a point is weak. All the rest is yet more subjective waffle.

Methinks you are shifting the goal post

I'm sorry you consider me holding you to your words is inconvenient for you. You think finding an additional video with one single person (who still does not seem upset by it as you per your original quote) is adding anything to the discussion - must be a very tiny subset huh. trump has given up on it, maybe you should too.

I am merely pointing out that what Trump said is in-line with that subset of Voters.

So you think dumbarse pitching that to a room for of educated black journalists was a good idea?

the DNC could be summarized as 'Look at all these previous Presidents, see our Figurehead is just like them!'

You appear to be miffed the dems are doing what looks for all the world to me like good marketing.

You are asking for hard proof of other people nebulous opinions.

A refresher yet again - your exact words "I have heard commentary from African Americans that they really don't like it when people who aren't fully black, playing the black card."
Big statements should require big evidence, not my fault you picked a subject that you cannot back your big statement up with anything meaningful.

Compare Foreign Policy and its downstream effects of Obama, Biden and Trump - if you had to pick one to be the best - which one?

This subject is way too big and time consuming for me to research and give you an informed decision that I could stand by.

[pete376403]

Here is another person https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtPlRZjYBow - Now - listen closely to what this person is saying:

Not African American and not descended from Slaves (like Rosa Parks)
and a preference that she acknowledge that she is Indian (and not "Black")?

Kamala Harris' father is from Jamaica. How did black people get to Jamaica? Oh thats's right, slaves from Africa. "The Spaniards also introduced the first African slaves into the island. By the early 17th century, when most of the Taino had died out, the population of the island was about 3,000, including a small number of African slaves." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jamaica